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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretjWhat significant bug have you had with the 955?[/quote wrote:

battery life - erratically sometimes it just disapears on you for no obvious reason. numerous reports of this across the internet

occaisionally a dashed line appears across the screen in different positions
https://gadgetsandwearables.com/...rizontal-line-screen

i encontered both issues quite quickly and obviously. replacement watch definitely has the 2nd, due to sickness have not yet been able to confirm battery life.

in both cases, garmin support seemed completely unaware of the issues, despite widespread reports across the internet and me sending them links
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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Just got my Apple Watch Ultra this past weekend. It’s a big upgrade over my Series 6.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Also just got my 955 this past weekend. Big upgrade from 945. But honestly, and from a sports watch perspective, the Apple 6 could not even compete with the 925. They serve different segments.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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I disagree but also understand where you are coming from. They both can track swims, runs, bike rides, etc.

Garmin battery life is the big seller but if you stream music podcasts etc. the battery life drops.

I can upload Apple Watch data to Strava, Training Peaks, and other apps.

The only difference is the Garmin vs Apple platform.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
I disagree but also understand where you are coming from. They both can track swims, runs, bike rides, etc.

Garmin battery life is the big seller but if you stream music podcasts etc. the battery life drops.

I can upload Apple Watch data to Strava, Training Peaks, and other apps.

The only difference is the Garmin vs Apple platform.

The only difference is the platform and the battery. I have a Fenix 5s that I've had for 3 years. I can get about 6 or 7 days out of the battery which includes several hours of GPS enabled workouts. If I'm not working out at all, it's about 10 days. Apple is coming closer though, and as an iPhone user I'm interested to see what they do next.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [Durhamskier] [ In reply to ]
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Durhamskier wrote:

The only difference is the platform and the battery. I have a Fenix 5s that I've had for 3 years. I can get about 6 or 7 days out of the battery which includes several hours of GPS enabled workouts. If I'm not working out at all, it's about 10 days. Apple is coming closer though, and as an iPhone user I'm interested to see what they do next.

Yup. Apple is so far ahead of everyone else on smart watches. A first gen product will become better as time goes on.

I want Apple to create a web portal for analyzing data and making custom workouts.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Just got my Apple Watch Ultra this past weekend. It’s a big upgrade over my Series 6.

Coming from using Garmin watches since 2006 with very few complaints, and using AWs concurrently since 2018, the Ultra is very appealing. I'm currently using an AW7 as my "daily driver" and a 955 for sport-related activities.

That being said, I'd go all-in and get an Ultra, except for a couple nuances:
* I'm used to the manual rest mode while swimming; automatic rest drives me a little batty (I've tried it on my AW7)
* No distance alerts while swimming on the AW with the default Workout app; not sure if something like WorkOutDoors has that, but I like being able to "just keep swimming" and my 955 taps me when I'm almost done with my set
* Having to use "yet another" app to get all the data from Apple's "walled garden" to Strava/TP and then export to GC. The data's there, it can be done, but it's another step.

Battery life for me isn't as big of an issue, as I don't race full-distance events. As long as it can survive a 10-hour hike, though, I'm a happy camper (pun intended).

Are these things I can get over? Sure. Do I want to? That's the question that's been tormenting me since launch.

YMMV

- John
"Have courage, and be kind."
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [OtterJohn] [ In reply to ]
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OtterJohn wrote:
I'd go all-in and get an Ultra, except for a couple nuances
You hit on a few of the many little items that differentiate Apple's smart watch approach to supporting fitness versus a focused fitness-first device. The AW can do a lot of this, but there are a many things it struggles to do well. IMHO, Apple would have to massively beef up its native workout app, give it one or two more hard buttons (option to repurpose the crown & side button during workouts), and massively enhance the mobile app. They still would have the gap of no web tier and the automated integration that brings, but other competing products without web tiers are already out there.

Apple Watch sub-optimizations relative to a pure bread device like a Coros, Garmin, Polar, Suunto, Wahoo, etc. (This focuses on Apple's native apps and sets aside the "there's an app for that," because that is actually part of the AW problem.)
  • Odd “segments” & “laps” splits data structure
  • Swimming cannot manually start & stop interval laps
  • No ecosystem of adjacent products & features – highly fragmented app environment
  • Limited vertical platform – no web and basic phone UI
  • Limited screen and data field tailoring
  • No performance analytics
  • No accessory device support except through 3rd party apps
  • No “Daily Report” type feeds (possible “with an app for that,” but even more fragmented)
  • Touchscreen UI accidents - touch just does not work as well and easily as hard button watches
  • Data sharing semi-manual
  • Battery life
  • Not really always-on
  • Basic & tedious structured workouts - doing this on the watch is a royal PITA
  • Activity start countdown
  • Heavy - its about 50% heavier than most race-oriented multisport devices
  • No mapping
This is just my short list, off the top of mind, from my experiences using almost every generation of AW alongside Garmin, Suunto, and Wahoo watches.
Last edited by: exxxviii: Oct 21, 22 3:30
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Note WSJ mention ms Apple is eager to court Garmin users and why there not quite winning us over yet.

https://apple.news/ALwUI3HyYTI2utdPbWxyo4w
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [Zippy303] [ In reply to ]
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Zippy303 wrote:
Note WSJ mention ms Apple is eager to court Garmin users and why there not quite winning us over yet.

https://apple.news/ALwUI3HyYTI2utdPbWxyo4w

Good article. They did get some of the AWU features/details wrong, but on the whole, it points out exactly why we (triathletes, long-distance hikers, endurance athletes of all kinds) aren't moving over yet. AWU2, maybe...if they can fix some of the niggly things that Garmin gets so right.

- John
"Have courage, and be kind."
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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I got the Ultra, having had three generations of Fenix and one Garmin 945.

Part of what I wanted was a cellular option for emergencies that allows me to leave my phone at home.

Frankly, I find the Ultra rather annoying and poorly developed. Lap swims are awful, and the workout app is inadequate compared to Garmin’s functionality and options.

What I find amazing is that they block 3rd party devs from utilizing the individual buttons, so only the Workout app can lap/pause with the left and right side buttons. Touch screen is beyond useless while running or swimming. No power meter support? Only two concurrent bluetooth connections? Why?

There is an app called WorkOutDoors, which is compatible with bluetooth power meters, and allows fairly fine-grained metrics, but one is limited to using the crown or simultaneous two-button press for functiom shortcuts. Better than what Apple offers by default, but it’s still handcuffed by the odd restrictions.

I’ll stick with it for the cellular functionality, but the workout user experience is absurdly basic, out of the box, and maybe only passable with the WorkOutDoors app.

I will say my open water swim GPS has never looked so good with Fenix 2,3,5x or Forerunner 945.
Last edited by: codygo: Oct 30, 22 22:23
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [codygo] [ In reply to ]
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I kept my Ultra and ran with it for 10 days, then I returned it and got a nice stainless steel Series 8 for my daily wear. I kept my Fenix 7XSS and I’m glad I did. The Ultra as v1 gives some good clues, I think, as to what will come. I found it really uncomfortable to sleep with, and as others said the activity tracking is still pretty basic. Once it’s got built-in, routable mapping and nav, I’ll give it another look.

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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [codygo] [ In reply to ]
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codygo wrote:
I got the Ultra, having had three generations of Fenix and one Garmin 945.

Part of what I wanted was a cellular option for emergencies that allows me to leave my phone at home.

Frankly, I find the Ultra rather annoying and poorly developed. Lap swims are awful, and the workout app is inadequate compared to Garmin’s functionality and options.

What I find amazing is that they block 3rd party devs from utilizing the individual buttons, so only the Workout app can lap/pause with the left and right side buttons. Touch screen is beyond useless while running or swimming. No power meter support? Only two concurrent bluetooth connections? Why?

There is an app called WorkOutDoors, which is compatible with bluetooth power meters, and allows fairly fine-grained metrics, but one is limited to using the crown or simultaneous two-button press for functiom shortcuts. Better than what Apple offers by default, but it’s still handcuffed by the odd restrictions.

I’ll stick with it for the cellular functionality, but the workout user experience is absurdly basic, out of the box, and maybe only passable with the WorkOutDoors app.

I will say my open water swim GPS has never looked so good with Fenix 2,3,5x or Forerunner 945.

The Forerunner 945LTE (which is actually closer to a 955 than a 945) gives you the best of both worlds.... super critical that my wife can track me these days after having some medical issues, and the Garmin LTE option is fantastic.

______________________________________________
Team Zoot
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [gregtay] [ In reply to ]
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This is why I just carry my phone. I've done it for years, it sends alerts to my 955 and incident detection and Live Track work just fine.

- John
"Have courage, and be kind."
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [codygo] [ In reply to ]
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codygo wrote:
There is an app called WorkOutDoors, which is compatible with bluetooth power meters, and allows fairly fine-grained metrics, but one is limited to using the crown or simultaneous two-button press for functiom shortcuts. Better than what Apple offers by default, but it’s still handcuffed by the odd restrictions.
The WorkOutDoors developer is active in a thread on MacRumors. There's now a beta version of WOD that makes use of the action button. I suspect it will go live soon.

I have the Ultra. The Apple workout app is pretty pathetic, BUT two third-party apps--WorkOutDoors and MySwimCoach--allow me to do as much, if not more, on the Ultra than I can do on my 945 LTE. Both are really well done and allow you to customize just about everything (other than the action button and that's coming).

Two different approaches:

-My Garmin came with most of what I need, and almost all of the CIQ apps I've tried to use are either very awkward to use and/or really buggy.

-The AWU didn't come with most of what I need, but I'm very impressed with these two third-party apps.

I'll probably keep the AWU because it integrates so much better with my iPhone than my Garmin does. And obviously, the AWU wins easily for the smartwatch features.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [BT_DreamChaser] [ In reply to ]
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The thing with Apple (and I am not a fan) is that what they lack in expertise - they have deep enough pockets to find and hire those that do. Garmin Market cap is 17 billion. Apple has 100 billon or so in cash just sitting around. It could actually just buy Garmin if it wanted. So, they can catch up and quickly if they actually wanted too. Hire the right people and pay them the right amount and you get what you want plus some.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [BigToe] [ In reply to ]
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BigToe wrote:
The thing with Apple (and I am not a fan) is that what they lack in expertise - they have deep enough pockets to find and hire those that do. Garmin Market cap is 17 billion. Apple has 100 billon or so in cash just sitting around. It could actually just buy Garmin if it wanted. So, they can catch up and quickly if they actually wanted too. Hire the right people and pay them the right amount and you get what you want plus some.


This is what seems frustrating. How could they fail so badly for the Ultra? Why would you have 3 buttons (5 if you count scroll wheel up+down) and not enable their functionality by default, when they should know the screen is unresponsive when it is sweaty/wet? You can't even really customize the workout screens very much. It's wild how out of touch the user experience seems. It's as if they hired one person that doesn't use or care about the features, and let them release a beta version.
Last edited by: codygo: Oct 31, 22 13:48
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [OtterJohn] [ In reply to ]
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OtterJohn wrote:
This is why I just carry my phone. I've done it for years, it sends alerts to my 955 and incident detection and Live Track work just fine.
Phone tether works great except when racing. LTE fills that gap.

______________________________________________
Team Zoot
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [codygo] [ In reply to ]
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My suspicion is that in time we'll end up trained to do things their way, just as we were with Apple Watch for daily wear and iPhone before it. There will be a great deal going on at Apple Park right now to address some, if not all, of the complaints they'll be hearing loud and clear. Jurek et al won't just be there for the ads. I suspect they'll be chiming in with a lot of "it really needs to do x,y,z". I just don't think that going all out on v1 is the way to go when you need to sell a boatload of them to people who don't care about stuff like Next Fork, Body Battery, or any one of a stack of other features ST readers use.

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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [proftri] [ In reply to ]
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proftri wrote:
codygo wrote:

There is an app called WorkOutDoors, which is compatible with bluetooth power meters, and allows fairly fine-grained metrics, but one is limited to using the crown or simultaneous two-button press for functiom shortcuts. Better than what Apple offers by default, but it’s still handcuffed by the odd restrictions.

The WorkOutDoors developer is active in a thread on MacRumors. There's now a beta version of WOD that makes use of the action button. I suspect it will go live soon.

I have the Ultra. The Apple workout app is pretty pathetic, BUT two third-party apps--WorkOutDoors and MySwimCoach--allow me to do as much, if not more, on the Ultra than I can do on my 945 LTE. Both are really well done and allow you to customize just about everything (other than the action button and that's coming).

Two different approaches:

-My Garmin came with most of what I need, and almost all of the CIQ apps I've tried to use are either very awkward to use and/or really buggy.

-The AWU didn't come with most of what I need, but I'm very impressed with these two third-party apps.

I'll probably keep the AWU because it integrates so much better with my iPhone than my Garmin does. And obviously, the AWU wins easily for the smartwatch features.

these 2 posts nicely encapsulate the apple strategy: don't allow other developers to use much of the functionality so that you lock users in and can provide better integration within your own device suites over mixing and matching.

as it happens though, the main thing holding me back from getting an iphone is that they won't let my garmin devices send text messages like i can through android. its great being able to quickly respond to a text through my garmin while on the go
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [pk1] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with much of what's been said above. For better or for worse, this is what Apple does. Build good hardware, put terrible native software on it, and rely on third-party app developers to do the software work for you (look at the native notes/reminders/calendar apps on iPhones and the gazillion third-party apps available for all of those purposes).

And as somebody mentioned above, they have enough money to buy anything that they really like. I don't think they'll buy Garmin. But could they buy, say, Whoop and incorporate its algorithm into the Apple ecosystem? That would seem like it might make sense for both parties (since Whoop bands seem like a bit of a dead-end product to me).
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