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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [rich_m] [ In reply to ]
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rich_m wrote:
why is it not crazy?

if he wants to say some of the documents were planted, then he should state which docs on the list he is referring to or STFU snout docs being planted.

why can't the Feds just bring him in and ask him? He's just a private citizen now.

Because there is a plausible argument that you need to actually see the documents to tell whether they were originally at MAL. You're talking about 11,000 documents. How is he supposed to remember every single document that was in those boxes? Granted, seeing the document, with all its details, isn't a sure way to clarify your memory, but it's certainly better than just seeing a list of documents. It is quite common that an honest witness will have no memory of a document if you just ask them about it, but when you actually put it in front of them -- with all the visual cues (pictures, layout, specific words, handwritten notes, etc.) that includes -- it jogs their memory. Asking him the question in person won't (or probably won't) help his memory relative to seeing the list (even assuming he does not take the fifth and refuse to answer any questions).
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [ike] [ In reply to ]
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Is he gonna use a sharpie?
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [ike] [ In reply to ]
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ike wrote:

Because there is a plausible argument that you need to actually see the documents to tell whether they were originally at MAL. You're talking about 11,000 documents. How is he supposed to remember every single document that was in those boxes? Granted, seeing the document, with all its details, isn't a sure way to clarify your memory, but it's certainly better than just seeing a list of documents. It is quite common that an honest witness will have no memory of a document if you just ask them about it, but when you actually put it in front of them -- with all the visual cues (pictures, layout, specific words, handwritten notes, etc.) that includes -- it jogs their memory. Asking him the question in person won't (or probably won't) help his memory relative to seeing the list (even assuming he does not take the fifth and refuse to answer any questions).


Sure, it's plausible once you're able to imagine a world in which Trump just didn't reflexively lie about the whole thing in a social media post.
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Thought trump had incredible mental skills…. Person, woman, man, camera, TV,
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [tyrod1] [ In reply to ]
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Christina Bobb, come on down!

graduated with a joint business and law degree from San Diego State University and California Western School of Law in 2008.
Cal West is ranked No. 147-192 in the Best Law Schools rankings.

https://www.nytimes.com/...7&smid=share-url

She Went Out on a Limb for Trump. Now She’s Under Justice Dept. Scrutiny.

Christina Bobb is a former Marine and a fervent believer that the 2020 election was stolen from Donald J. Trump. She went to work for him and quickly found herself enmeshed in an obstruction investigation.
WASHINGTON — This spring, one of the lawyers representing former President Donald J. Trump made an urgent, high-stakes request to Christina G. Bobb, who had just jumped from a Trump-allied cable network to a job in his political organization.

Ms. Bobb, a 39-year-old lawyer juggling amorphous roles in her new job, was being asked to take a step that neither Mr. Trump nor other members of the legal team were willing to take — so she looked before leaping.

“Wait a minute — I don’t know you,” Ms. Bobb replied to Mr. Corcoran’s request, according to a person to whom she later recounted the episode. She later complained that she did not have a full grasp of what was going on around her when she signed the document, according to two people who have heard her account.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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ironclm wrote:
Christina Bobb, come on down!

graduated with a joint business and law degree from San Diego State University and California Western School of Law in 2008.
Cal West is ranked No. 147-192 in the Best Law Schools rankings.

https://www.nytimes.com/...7&smid=share-url

She Went Out on a Limb for Trump. Now She’s Under Justice Dept. Scrutiny.

Christina Bobb is a former Marine and a fervent believer that the 2020 election was stolen from Donald J. Trump. She went to work for him and quickly found herself enmeshed in an obstruction investigation.
WASHINGTON — This spring, one of the lawyers representing former President Donald J. Trump made an urgent, high-stakes request to Christina G. Bobb, who had just jumped from a Trump-allied cable network to a job in his political organization.

Ms. Bobb, a 39-year-old lawyer juggling amorphous roles in her new job, was being asked to take a step that neither Mr. Trump nor other members of the legal team were willing to take — so she looked before leaping.

“Wait a minute — I don’t know you,” Ms. Bobb replied to Mr. Corcoran’s request, according to a person to whom she later recounted the episode. She later complained that she did not have a full grasp of what was going on around her when she signed the document, according to two people who have heard her account.

She violated rule #1: if someone is gonna go to jail, make sure it’s the client, not you.
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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ironclm wrote:
She later complained that she did not have a full grasp of what was going on around her when she signed the document, according to two people who have heard her account.

She's a fucking lawyer. If you aren't comfortable signing a document then don't sign it. It's that simple.

Only the best people...

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
ironclm wrote:

She later complained that she did not have a full grasp of what was going on around her when she signed the document, according to two people who have heard her account.


She's a fucking lawyer. If you aren't comfortable signing a document then don't sign it. It's that simple.

Only the best people...

C'mon now, everyone knows that one of the first things they teach at law school is that the best time to sign a legally binding document is when you don't fully grasp what's going on around you.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
BLeP wrote:
ironclm wrote:

She later complained that she did not have a full grasp of what was going on around her when she signed the document, according to two people who have heard her account.


She's a fucking lawyer. If you aren't comfortable signing a document then don't sign it. It's that simple.

Only the best people...


C'mon now, everyone knows that one of the first things they teach at law school is that the best time to sign a legally binding document is when you don't fully grasp what's going on around you.

My wife is a lawyer, I should have remembered that.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:

She's a fucking lawyer. If you aren't comfortable signing a document then don't sign it. It's that simple.

Only the best people...

Also a former Marine, so on paper is supposed to be able to stand up for herself in tough situations.
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
BLeP wrote:


She's a fucking lawyer. If you aren't comfortable signing a document then don't sign it. It's that simple.

Only the best people...


Also a former Marine, so on paper is supposed to be able to stand up for herself in tough situations.


So it was signed with a crayon right before she ate it?
Last edited by: sdbanker: Oct 12, 22 13:46
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [sdbanker] [ In reply to ]
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sdbanker wrote:
trail wrote:
BLeP wrote:


She's a fucking lawyer. If you aren't comfortable signing a document then don't sign it. It's that simple.

Only the best people...


Also a former Marine, so on paper is supposed to be able to stand up for herself in tough situations.


So it was signed with a crayon right before she ate it?


Ouch.

And the guy who got covfefe was the DOJ's witness.

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A Trump employee has told federal agents about moving boxes of documents at Mar-a-Lago at the specific direction of the former president, according to people familiar with the investigation, who say the witness account — combined with security-camera footage — offers key evidence of Donald Trump’s behavior as investigators sought the return of classified material.
The witness description and footage described to The Washington Post offer the most direct account to date of Trump’s actions and instructions leading up to the FBI’s Aug. 8 search of the Florida residence and private club, in which agents were looking for evidence of potential crimes including obstruction, destruction of government records or mishandling classified information.

and most importantly:

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Agents have gathered witness accounts indicating that, after Trump advisers received a subpoena in May for any classified documents that remained at Mar-a-Lago, Trump told people to move boxes to his residence at the property.

That seems criminal.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/...s-trump-boxes-moved/

Suffer Well.
Last edited by: jmh: Oct 12, 22 14:45
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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Just so we're clear on how things work down there...

Put lead in fish to cheat to win a fishing derby... get charged with grand theft (I completely agree with the charge, just using it as an example)

Try to steal a presidential election, definitely steal classified documents... nothing.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Just so we're clear on how things work down there...

Put lead in fish to cheat to win a fishing derby... get charged with grand theft (I completely agree with the charge, just using it as an example)

Try to steal a presidential election, definitely steal classified documents... nothing.

He is their God-Emperor with no clothes. It makes me wonder sometimes if the government knows more about the Jan 6th underground than they've put into that panel and it's much much worse than they're letting on WRT insurrectionists and the threat that Trump and his minions pose. Like the openly trying to replace SoS's in states so they can subvert elections.
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Election-denier Doug Mastriano is running for Governor in PA and has openly said that if elected he will challenge any election results he doesn't agree with

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Just so we're clear on how things work down there...

Put lead in fish to cheat to win a fishing derby... get charged with grand theft (I completely agree with the charge, just using it as an example)

Try to steal a presidential election, definitely steal classified documents... nothing.

In fairness, the DOJ is pretty well tied up in trying to do something, it just takes a little more time.

Slightly more complex than finding lead weights in the belly of some bass.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
Slightly more complex than finding lead weights in the belly of some bass.

Also the stakes are not as high. If the prosecution screws up with the fishermen, it's not that big a deal.

Any prosecution of Trump or other high-level people has massive implications. Screwing it up could forever stain the FBI/DoJ. Even if they do it all exactly right, with a dead-to-rights case, there will be massive political blowback.

In a perfect world investigators and prosecutors ignore politics. But in this case, I don't think they can.
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
slowguy wrote:

Slightly more complex than finding lead weights in the belly of some bass.


Also the stakes are not as high. If the prosecution screws up with the fishermen, it's not that big a deal.

Any prosecution of Trump or other high-level people has massive implications. Screwing it up could forever stain the FBI/DoJ. Even if they do it all exactly right, with a dead-to-rights case, there will be massive political blowback.

In a perfect world investigators and prosecutors ignore politics. But in this case, I don't think they can.
Too late.


IF Trump ever goes down for any of his actions, the MAGA nut jobs will never stop railing about how the FBI/DoJ are prejudiced crooks. (They're already laying their groundwork.)

IF they drop the case(s)/screw up the prosecution of the case(s), the remainder of the country will wonder why we even have the FBI/DoJ.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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SCOTUS tries to recall some respect with a 9-0 vote against trump today.
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The U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday rejected former President Donald Trump's bid to have an independent arbiter vet classified documents that were seized by the FBI from his Florida home as part of his legal battle against investigators probing his handling of sensitive government records.
https://www.reuters.com/...ocuments-2022-10-13/

Suffer Well.
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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So even the guy that should have recused himself decided not to debase himself even further?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [ike] [ In reply to ]
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DOJ has filed its appeal brief in the 11th Circuit.

https://int.nyt.com/...8cbae0bfe07/full.pdf

Unless you're really into this stuff, it's a bit of a slog. Not much of it is new, and it heavily relies on the decision of the appeals court granting the stay regarding classified documents. It does a powerful job of showing that much of Cannon's logic would apply to any case, yet appointment of a special master to review the fruits of a search warrant is rare. They made two points that I don't recall seeing before. (1). Among other reasons for needing to seize non-classified materials, they help identify the timing -- if there is a document dated after 1/21/21 stuffed into a folder that also has classified materials in it, that suggests that Trump accessed that folder when he was no longer President. (2). Trump's insistence that these are "personal records" means that they have no executive privilege, which was the main basis for the special master review in the first place.
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [ike] [ In reply to ]
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masterfully understated. Just a bit. So I got as far as the list of attorneys prosecuting and was struck by one title in particular, Chief of the counterintelligence export control section. A cursory review of cases handled through this section for the period 2016-2019 reads of Economic espionage with China, Russia, Iran and North Korea, rinse and repeat. I am reminded of the Arte Johnson bit on the Laugh In show where he says in his lousiest German soldier accent "Veddy Interesting".

Or, perhaps not?
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Have we got to the point where it wouldn’t matter? Forget the “evidence”, forget the “witch hunt”. Would a full admission in open court would move the needle? It’s a sad state of affairs we are in and every day that passes I’m inclined to think there is no point in it all. The feel good story of setting a precedent and putting it down in the history books is meaningless when it will be ignored by a large percentage of the voting public.

I’m looking to the GA senate race as the nation’s litmus test. A state that has a large population that wouldn’t vote Democrat if Satan himself was running Republican. However, there is a significant (in statistical election terms) conservative contingent that are content to voice their opinion by not voting at all. It’s one of the reasons why we have two D’s in the senate now. The race pits a local hero that mirrors Trump against a bona fide centrist the conservatives have been crying for from the Democratic Party. If our race is even close, my hope for our country will have reached rock bottom.
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
Have we got to the point where it wouldn’t matter? Forget the “evidence”, forget the “witch hunt”. Would a full admission in open court would move the needle? It’s a sad state of affairs we are in and every day that passes I’m inclined to think there is no point in it all. The feel good story of setting a precedent and putting it down in the history books is meaningless when it will be ignored by a large percentage of the voting public.

I’m looking to the GA senate race as the nation’s litmus test. A state that has a large population that wouldn’t vote Democrat if Satan himself was running Republican. However, there is a significant (in statistical election terms) conservative contingent that are content to voice their opinion by not voting at all. It’s one of the reasons why we have two D’s in the senate now. The race pits a local hero that mirrors Trump against a bona fide centrist the conservatives have been crying for from the Democratic Party. If our race is even close, my hope for our country will have reached rock bottom.

Things are bad, but we have not reached the point where it makes no difference whether a former President is convicted of a felony. That may never happen, but who knows? The Parkland jury surprised me by not giving Cruz the death penalty.
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Re: FBI raids Mar-a-lago [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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gofigure wrote:
masterfully understated. Just a bit. So I got as far as the list of attorneys prosecuting and was struck by one title in particular, Chief of the counterintelligence export control section. A cursory review of cases handled through this section for the period 2016-2019 reads of Economic espionage with China, Russia, Iran and North Korea, rinse and repeat. I am reminded of the Arte Johnson bit on the Laugh In show where he says in his lousiest German soldier accent "Veddy Interesting".

Or, perhaps not?

Well, it’s notable. Espionage is one of the crimes at issue here. And, these lawyers should already have security clearance. But, I don’t think we can infer that the choice of lawyers means that DOJ thinks it can prove Trump was scheming to sell the intel, or something like that.
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