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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
"In theory, in the US you’d be presumed innocent if you broke a law. "


- fixed that for you.

lol
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
Here's a 'first hand account' by @Dan the Man of Thoes' bike riding skillz, from the 'I'm outraged at people accusing other people of malicious actions' thread started by Sheridan.
Dan The Man wrote:
Svenja Thoes did draft at Ironman Ireland.

I raced the age group race which started 10 minutes behind the pro field and during the bike section I caught and passed most of the female pro athletes. About 60 miles in to the bike I caught and passed Thoes and thought nothing of it until I noticed her shadow (it was super sunny!) riding very close to me, this continued for a few minutes and I shouted and gesticulated at her to get out of the draft zone. I was incensed that she was using an age grouper to gain advantage and steal prize money from the rest of the fair racing womens field. She took no notice and proceeded to stay in the draft zone for the next 25 miles approximately. It was obvious every time I looked behind and most of the time I could see her shadow. I was 2nd overall age grouper on the road, there was no one else around and there was no athlete congestion or anything that might have been deemed an excuse to mistakenly enter the draft zone, it was deliberate cheating for a significant amount of time. At about 85 miles into the bike the 3rd age grouper caught and passed me, we know each other so we exchanged a few words of encouragement and I used this opportunity to again shout at Thoes and tell the other age grouper that she was cheating. After this she decided to respect the rules, overtook me and pulled away for the final section of the ride entering T2 approximately a minute ahead.

As far as evidence is concerned I'm sure you could compare time splits on the bike, see that I took 10 mins out of her in the first 60 ish miles and then magically she was able to ride at my pace after I caught her. I'm sure there must be photographic evidence of this as well from on course as it went on for a long time. I finished 2nd age grouper overall and 1st 40-44, I don't care if I'm not anonymous, I'd rather the correct female pros receive their hard earned prize money and rule breaking should be punished. I don't know anything about the infringement which led to her DQ for outside assistance I didn't see anything of that nature either on the bike or run.

As an aside I'd suggest a female pro race should have 30 mins head start on male age groupers so that both races aren't interfering with each other. That's a minor point though in the context of the race, I would just like to add that no country could match Ireland for putting on an Ironman, I've raced 16 IMs all over the world and Youghal on Sunday delivered a race and an experience hands down better than anywhere else. If you get the chance, you should race Ironman Ireland, chapeau Youghal.

Wouldn't this be either a drafting penalty or a DSQ for drafting? Obviously both could be possible and you enforce the rule for which you have evidence. Either way, it does not speak well to her sportsmanship
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Did the other thread get deleted?

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24 wrote:
Did the other thread get deleted?

yeah. i gave you all warning first, so you could get your last comments in. some did. poof. it's gone.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
Did the other thread get deleted?


yeah. i gave you all warning first, so you could get your last comments in. some did. poof. it's gone.
Why deleted rather than just locked?

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, and thankfully not familiar enough with it but you at least get one yellow card and penalty tent for drafting, then if you do it again a red? At any rate absent some other proof this ain't it
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
Slowman wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
Did the other thread get deleted?


yeah. i gave you all warning first, so you could get your last comments in. some did. poof. it's gone.

Why deleted rather than just locked?

so that the folks who got some heartburn over the thread don't have to continue to see the posts.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [adnama] [ In reply to ]
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Chucky V was DQ'd from IM World Champs in 1999 for drinking a beer mid-race (I think I remember seeing him with the beer near the Hot Corner). He was also disqualified him from entering the 2000 race.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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At least Dan McParland’s post was parsed into this thread although the context is lost.

I suggest Tums for occasional heartburn although a healthy serving of crow can also be effective.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks- that thing was catnip for toxic posters unfortunately. Appreciate the team keeping ST a sane place to discuss our racing and training.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [ In reply to ]
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Any update on the appeal for Svenja Thoes? And any details about the actions that were deemed to be outside assistance?
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [test] [ In reply to ]
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Crickets from official sources.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Do officials make announcements on those types of rulings? I would assume if you haven’t heard or seen the results change the appeal was denied.

Are we going to see an release from IM that it was denied. I would think we won’t. And either the athlete makes a statement or nothing is really “announced”.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I get what you're saying -- usually there's a mention somewhere on the results page that "results are final" versus "preliminary."

The preliminary language is finally off Cork. Thoes is listed with no time versus a DSQ. Take that for what you will.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [test] [ In reply to ]
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According to her IG just posted in the last few hours the DQ was overturned by “an independent Irish arbitration panel”
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Zuckerzeit] [ In reply to ]
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PTO have changed the result apparently. Except she seems to be the only source of this news as Triathlon Mag.de is just quoting here. Perhaps posting the decision instead of a photo it would be helpful.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
PTO have changed the result apparently. Except she seems to be the only source of this news as Triathlon Mag.de is just quoting here. Perhaps posting the decision instead of a photo it would be helpful.
The IM Ireland result has been revised in the PTO Results service. Thoes' score would improve her ranking (she won IM France and IM Italy as well) from #37 to #32, but the rankings have not been amended (we're still waiting for the 31 Dec final 2022 list). The appellant body making the judgement is not identified and the result has not been changed on the IM Ireland page.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Supposedly it's an arbitration panel under the jurisdiction of Triathlon Ireland. But I went to their site and didn't see any decision posted.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
Supposedly it's an arbitration panel under the jurisdiction of Triathlon Ireland. But I went to their site and didn't see any decision posted.
So does IM just pony up an extra $12k for Thoes? Do they try and rake it back from Mitchell, Zimmerman et al? Good luck with that.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
Supposedly it's an arbitration panel under the jurisdiction of Triathlon Ireland. But I went to their site and didn't see any decision posted.
So does IM just pony up an extra $12k for Thoes? Do they try and rake it back from Mitchell, Zimmerman et al? Good luck with that.

i would say the price money has not been paid out yet.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Zuckerzeit] [ In reply to ]
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Zuckerzeit wrote:
According to her IG just posted in the last few hours the DQ was overturned by “an independent Irish arbitration panel”

Oh I sooooooooo hope this is true. If it is I can’t wait to hear from Talbot, especially after the abuse I got on another SM platform.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [ In reply to ]
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https://www.slowtwitch.com/...and_Winner_8607.html

More news on this from Ironman today but still no specific details on the infraction.
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [test] [ In reply to ]
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Emphasis added:

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an independent court has since called for the disqualification to be overturned, deeming the outside assistance she received as making no difference to the race outcome

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [test] [ In reply to ]
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test wrote:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/News/Thoes_Officially_Reinstated_as_IM_Ireland_Winner_8607.html
More news on this from Ironman today but still no specific details on the infraction.

From your ST News link: ""an independent court has since called for the disqualification to be overturned, deeming the outside assistance she received as making no difference to the race outcome."
Sounds as if the TriIreland judged that the outside assistance actually happened. How did the appeal body (Tri Ireland) know whether she wasn't about to bonk?
Thoes’ coach, Brett Sutton, wrote on trisutto.com in September that she “was controversially disqualified after the winning presentation had taken place. She was then the subject of cruel attacks on social media when there was little, or no clarification of what the disqualification was for. As there was an official protest, Svenja was prevented from publicly commenting on the incident.” “I can only say that the incident was not a drafting violation, or any other dreamt up scenario, but one great story that any real Ironman triathlete would find great compassion for,” Sutton continued.
Well now the appeal's complete: let's hear that "great story"!

So if someone breaks a rule - in this case receiving outside assistance (and let us assume this is fluid/nutrition since the nature of the outside assistance remains unspecified) - then provided it makes "no difference to the race outcome" then an appeal will be successful.
Littering makes "no difference to the race outcome": will appeals against littering succeed? What about being obnoxious to a referee? Makes "no difference to the race outcome". Spare wheel from a spectator: where's the harm in that? Drinks from supporters every lap? Bottles/gels passed up from the side of the road?
See upthread for a first hand account from @Dan the Man of her riding in company skilz.
The Irish are not doing themselves any favours here - I wonder if this is the last IM Ireland?
IM ponying up the 15k: she was already KQ so the slots awarded remain.
IM Ireland results still not amended: https://www.ironman.com/im-ireland-results
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jan 19, 23 15:08
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Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Emphasis added:

Quote:
an independent court has since called for the disqualification to be overturned, deeming the outside assistance she received as making no difference to the race outcome

OK, now we officially know it was outside assistance, but still no details on what type of outside assistance...........

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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