Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Dr Alex,

I had a few questions but wasn't sure if it was worth starting a new thread.

I'm interested in doing something like the above mix, but wasn't sure about the correct way to go about it. My standard nutrition for a 70.3 is 1 dose of 21.7g carbohydrate every 10km (about 15-16min) and 1 mouthful-ish of a hydration product from a 750mL bottle with another 38g of carbohydrate in it every 15km. I also carry another bottle of water that gets consumed over the course of the bike leg. I'm usually around the 2:30-2:35 bike split depending on all of the factors. That works out to be about 70g per hour from the nutrition product and about 15g per hour from the hydration product.

From the above recipe, how much of that would I require to get my 85-90g/hour of carbohydrate in say 2x 650mL bottles?

Thanks,
Ben
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The most confusing in this thread is the measurements….I know we euros lost that’s why you guys kept using inches and cups and oz but……;-)
Grams would be great :-)
Other than that, why using the Gatorade powder if you wanna keep the ingredients simple?
I use malto, fructose (but in a 3:1 ratio), salt (since this thread from citrat), freshly pressed citrus and fruit juice (100%ish) for flavor.

-shoki
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [BNothling] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ben,

I’m sure Dr.Alex will respond but the formula I mentioned/made makes life easy. It is 1 complete carb for every gram, so for your case if you want 85g/hr you simply weigh out 85grams of powder into a bottle and fill the rest of the bottle with water.
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks! Did you have to chase it with water or is it not too sweet?
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [BNothling] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have had a few PM’s about how to make the mix or where to get all the supply’s/tools.

Here is what I recommend for the Dr.Alex starter kit.

This is all available on Amazon.

Scale:

Ozeri ZK14-S Pronto Digital Multifunction Kitchen and Food Scale, Black, 8.25 https://www.amazon.com/...p_apip_k1VfqpSfXe2ot

Maltodextrin:

NOW Sports Nutrition, Carbo Gain Powder (Maltodextrin), Rapid Absorption, Energy Production, 8-Pound https://www.amazon.com/...JX8S4WN4SCRR02DH3W14

Fructose:

NOW Natural Foods, Fructose, Pure Crystalline Frustose, Excellent Substitute for Sugar, Certified Non-GMO and Kosher, 3-Pound (Packaging May Vary) https://www.amazon.com/...oding=UTF8&psc=1

Sodium citrate:

Judee's Sodium Citrate - 2lb - 100% Non-GMO, Keto-Friendly - Gluten-Free & Nut-Free - Food Grade - Great for Molecular Gastronomy Cooking https://www.amazon.com/...p_apip_rW6KHBANC52gM

Gatorade:

Gatorade Thirst Quencher Powder,... https://www.amazon.com/...ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Storage:

2 Pack - 1.28 Gallon White Square... https://www.amazon.com/...ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Keep in mind that the only items you should be changing in the formula is the sodium and Gatorade. If you want more sodium you can increase the citrate (although the formula I provided has a lot) and if you want to add more or less flavor you can change the Gatorade amount or flavor. The Gatorade is acting as some electrolyte and flavoring in the system.

This 1:.08 recommendation is what most of the most popular formula companies are currently using. If you want a 100g/hr carb bottle simply weigh out 100g of powder into your bottle and there you have it.

I recommend you start out with 50g/hr and see how it does over 1-2 rides and increase from there. I found that 100g was too much for me but 50g left me hungry, no matter what I had muscular power/endurance however.
Last edited by: teddygram: Sep 16, 21 4:04
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [BNothling] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You are very welcome!

I mix that in 22oz bottles, I only use that bottle as my fuel/hydration source per hour. The taste in all honesty reminds me of slightly sweet cold brewed tea. It is a taste you can certainly get use to IMO, and per my last post you can alter the flavor pretty easy.

Say you make the mix with the 100g of Gatorade and find that you want more flavor. Just add another 50g of Gatorade to your entire mix and stir again, you can repeat this until it’s either where you want it or you went too far hahah.
Last edited by: teddygram: Sep 16, 21 4:04
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
More directed at Alex, but what is the difference in using 1maltodextrin:1fructose mix , vs just using table sugar/sucrose, (1 glucose : 1 fructose). Is there a benefit to malto vs glucose? Are they not both fast digesting sugars, and isn't malto just chained glucose? Not a science guy. Just a google guy.
Last edited by: ADabs: Sep 16, 21 9:30
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [ADabs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ADabs wrote:
what is the difference in using 1maltodextrin:1fructose mix , vs just using table sugar/sucrose, (1 glucose : 1 fructose).

He's covered that before. Only difference is price.
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
teddygram wrote:

NOW Sports Nutrition, Carbo Gain Powder (Maltodextrin), Rapid Absorption, Energy Production, 8-Pound https://www.amazon.com/...JX8S4WN4SCRR02DH3W14


CarboGain is usually quite a bit cheaper at GNC

https://www.gnc.com/energy-supplements/807017.html
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [shoki] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
shoki wrote:
The most confusing in this thread is the measurements….I know we euros lost that’s why you guys kept using inches and cups and oz but……;-)
Grams would be great :-)
Other than that, why using the Gatorade powder if you wanna keep the ingredients simple?
I use malto, fructose (but in a 3:1 ratio), salt (since this thread from citrat), freshly pressed citrus and fruit juice (100%ish) for flavor.
IIRC, another user asked specifically for how they would measure things to put in a bottle. The simplest way here in the states is to measure in cups for sugar. Dumb-American question incoming: what do you use to measure volumes with? What do you call them? haha Is it still called a measuring cup, but something like "a 200mL measuring cup?" Do people just refer to volumes of fluid as 0.2 L, for example? or 200 mL? (I prefer using mL & L, mg & g, for most things, so happy to answer any of your questions in that way!)

FYI: you'll have a little better gut tolerance if you move to more like 3:2 malto:fruc. Sweeter, yes, but less likely to overload glucose transport ability in the gut. Somewhere between 2:1 and 1:1 glucose:fructose is virtually always better than 3:1.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [BNothling] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If I'm following your math right, I think you just need to add 10-15g sugar per hour. Forget the above formula, if you're looking to just add stuff to your current mix. Add 10-15g straight sugar. If you want higher salt, just add table salt or sodium citrate to bump up your hourly totals to your desired targets or ranges. Let me know if I'm not answering your questions.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [mgreer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mgreer wrote:
ADabs wrote:
what is the difference in using 1maltodextrin:1fructose mix , vs just using table sugar/sucrose, (1 glucose : 1 fructose).


He's covered that before. Only difference is price.
Sucrose works as well as maltodextrin:fructose, and glucose:fructose 1:1 mixtures. >>90g/hr is optimal
https://www.trainerroad.com/...n-a-bottle/30328/204

Running intra-workout fueling, sweetness discussion
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t=last-7417228#first

I use sucrose. I do not have any maltodextrin or fructose in my possession and probably never will. :) (okay maybe if I decide I want to target somewhere between 1:0.8 and 1:1 gluc:fruc, and want to minimize sweetness marginally..... unlikely though).

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanx a lot for the reply, will try it out.
We usually go by liters for volume, smaller is easy math. (Cups over here are not a standard size, so cups and spoons can be a little tricky for measuring haha)

-shoki
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ok. Awesome.

The product that I use is literally blood orange juice, maltodextrin, fructose, sodium bicarbonate and sea salt as per the ingredients list but I'm willing to try something home made to fuel my training sessions as well as my racing. It comes in 500g bags so I burn through it fairly quickly.
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Is there a video out there showing this or maybe some simple instructions? There's a lot of info in this thread and something like this video would help simplify the process.

Also, thanks to Dr. Harrison and everyone else for sharing the insights. It's sincerely appreciated.
Last edited by: Alex M: Sep 16, 21 18:07
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [Alex M] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Soon!

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is likely a dumb question, but I would like to get some clarification on the ratios of malto/fructose.

Specifically if you were targeting a ratio of 1:0.8 is that referring to the ratio of total grams of each ingredient or the ratio of total carbs in each? I assume that this would be for total grams? Probably an insignificant number, but since maltodextrin is not 1:1 weight to carbs I suppose in a large enough batch it might be relevant.
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [dave_o] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ratio of total carbs in each. Thankfully, it very likely will not matter either way. Reason: biology is much messier than chemistry.

On inspection of maltodextrin from bulk supplements I see that there is trace sodium (10mg) in the product, plus 1990mg of something else per 30-gram serving of product.

They list 28g of carbohydrate per 30 gram serving.

Per Cargill food grade maltodextrin, it looks rest of it is moisture. ie. water. Seems common for food grade maltodextrin to be around 6% moisture.

So, for 100g carbs, you'd want ~106 grams of product. This applies to maltodextrin only. I have not investigated other carb sources for moisture content.

sugar has such a small serving size that I'm unsure if the same would exist if the serving size were listed as 30g vs. the typical "8g." I bring this up because I'm virtually certain that most of the research, and maybe all of it, using sugar as a component of workout nutrition assumes zero moisture content in the sugar. No chance are exercise scientists going to be checking for moisture content that doesn't smack them in the face on the label, in most cases. Only exercise scientists with strong backgrounds in chemistry (rare) are going to investigate this. I hadn't, and I minored in chemistry, which generally puts my chemistry knowledge in the top 1% of my peers. Most PhD's in ex phys come from exercise science undergrads.

Thus, I think for research regarding sucrose consumption during exercise, all numbers reported assume that grams of product == grams of carbohydrate from sucrose, which may or may not be true. But that allows us as end users and readers of the literature to assume that grams of carb from sucrose == grams of product, for our endurance beverage formulation purposes.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
teddygram wrote:
I have had a few PM’s about how to make the mix or where to get all the supply’s/tools.

Here is what I recommend for the Dr.Alex starter kit.

This is all available on Amazon.

Scale:

Ozeri ZK14-S Pronto Digital Multifunction Kitchen and Food Scale, Black, 8.25 https://www.amazon.com/...p_apip_k1VfqpSfXe2ot

Maltodextrin:

NOW Sports Nutrition, Carbo Gain Powder (Maltodextrin), Rapid Absorption, Energy Production, 8-Pound https://www.amazon.com/...JX8S4WN4SCRR02DH3W14

Fructose:

NOW Natural Foods, Fructose, Pure Crystalline Frustose, Excellent Substitute for Sugar, Certified Non-GMO and Kosher, 3-Pound (Packaging May Vary) https://www.amazon.com/...oding=UTF8&psc=1

Sodium citrate:

Judee's Sodium Citrate - 2lb - 100% Non-GMO, Keto-Friendly - Gluten-Free & Nut-Free - Food Grade - Great for Molecular Gastronomy Cooking https://www.amazon.com/...p_apip_rW6KHBANC52gM

Gatorade:

Gatorade Thirst Quencher Powder,... https://www.amazon.com/...ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Storage:

2 Pack - 1.28 Gallon White Square... https://www.amazon.com/...ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Keep in mind that the only items you should be changing in the formula is the sodium and Gatorade. If you want more sodium you can increase the citrate (although the formula I provided has a lot) and if you want to add more or less flavor you can change the Gatorade amount or flavor. The Gatorade is acting as some electrolyte and flavoring in the system.

This 1:.08 recommendation is what most of the most popular formula companies are currently using. If you want a 100g/hr carb bottle simply weigh out 100g of powder into your bottle and there you have it.

I recommend you start out with 50g/hr and see how it does over 1-2 rides and increase from there. I found that 100g was too much for me but 50g left me hungry, no matter what I had muscular power/endurance however.

What are your thoughts on this study with ratios?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26373645/
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Any benefit or negative to using Gatorade Endurance vs Gatorade with table sugar+sodium citrate?

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DrAlexHarrison wrote:
Ratio of total carbs in each. Thankfully, it very likely will not matter either way. Reason: biology is much messier than chemistry.

On inspection of maltodextrin from bulk supplements I see that there is trace sodium (10mg) in the product, plus 1990mg of something else per 30-gram serving of product.

They list 28g of carbohydrate per 30 gram serving.

Per Cargill food grade maltodextrin, it looks rest of it is moisture. ie. water. Seems common for food grade maltodextrin to be around 6% moisture.

So, for 100g carbs, you'd want ~106 grams of product. This applies to maltodextrin only. I have not investigated other carb sources for moisture content.

sugar has such a small serving size that I'm unsure if the same would exist if the serving size were listed as 30g vs. the typical "8g." I bring this up because I'm virtually certain that most of the research, and maybe all of it, using sugar as a component of workout nutrition assumes zero moisture content in the sugar. No chance are exercise scientists going to be checking for moisture content that doesn't smack them in the face on the label, in most cases. Only exercise scientists with strong backgrounds in chemistry (rare) are going to investigate this. I hadn't, and I minored in chemistry, which generally puts my chemistry knowledge in the top 1% of my peers. Most PhD's in ex phys come from exercise science undergrads.

Thus, I think for research regarding sucrose consumption during exercise, all numbers reported assume that grams of product == grams of carbohydrate from sucrose, which may or may not be true. But that allows us as end users and readers of the literature to assume that grams of carb from sucrose == grams of product, for our endurance beverage formulation purposes.

What do you think about this study?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26373645/
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I’ve read through this tread at least 4 times. Videos would greatly help. In the interim, hoping you can comment.

Looking for suggestions for a concentrated 22oz bottle for a 3 hr ride.

My current mix :
3 Scoops of Skratch + 4 Scoops of Carbo Pro + 2 tsp of Sodium Citrate.

After reading this thread am I correct in thinking that I should replace the Carbo Pro with table sugar and add caffeine? If so, in what amounts? Any other suggestions?
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [Bryan!] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I followed the formula that Dr. Harrison posted:

1.25 cups of table sugar
1 scoop of standard gatorade powder
1 TSP of sodium citrate
Optional caffeine

Combined all that into a 750ml bottle that would get me through 3 hours.

Used the approach at Augusta 70.3 and set a PR and again at IMFL which was my first full. I ended up taking a couple of Maurten Gels and eating a couple of bananas on the bike as well, just because my body wanted something different. I got off the bike and felt strong throughout the entire run leg. Saved a good bit of money too, thinking I should send the good Dr. a tip.
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [Bryan!] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Bryan,

I am not sure if this was directed at me or not, however its pretty easy if you follow my formula plan.

The first thing you determine is how many carbs per hour you can handle. So if you can take 100g then you simply make a 300g bottle. You then mark the bottle out as 1/3 and can squeeze 1/3 of the bottle out into whatever hydration system you have and top with water. or you can sip the concentrated bottle as you go with the goal of taking a 1/3 of it by the end of the hour.

I hope this helps
Quote Reply
Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MrTri123,

Dr. Alex and my formula meets the exact quote of that situation here;

Here
Last edited by: teddygram: Nov 22, 21 5:31
Quote Reply

Prev Next