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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
jpiik wrote:
Yes, the 2020 Veloflex Records are small. The 23s measure about 24 mm on my rims, where for example Corsa Speeds are about 1 mm wider. VFR are also small in "vertical dimension", i.e. they are "not tall".

I tried them on a training ride. And flatted. But only once :|. They do feel fast.


I'll have to remeasure my speeds, but I recall them being 24mm on my rims (17&19 internal front and back, respectively). Were you running the 1.0s or the 2.0s? If the latter, did they grow in size? My supersonic 23 also measures 24 on my Bonty D3. If Records come in at ≤ 24mm I think I am winning on the aero front. In regards to comfort I'm hoping for that classic veloflex ride.

Also, what pressure did you run at and how much do you weigh? Sucks on the flat.

Was just measuring the width of the 1.0s mounted to my new-to-me Bontrager Aeolus XXX 6 wheels. The nominal 23 mm tire ballooned to a whooping 25.8 mm. On my HED H3+/ Jet+ Disc, the same tires were a more reasonable 24 mm.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Update - four of our race team rode today at the UK closed circuit/motor circuit TT championships (18.7km) with Veloflex Records on. None of us punctured, none of us won either :D but we did get a 4th in the men’s and 9th in the women’s.

I found they had plenty of grip, I’ll inspect the wheels later for cuts etc but doesn’t seem like any issues. We rode our bikes around the venue as well before/after the race so it wasn’t just super smooth tarmac all day too.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
LAI wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
about 50% of the flats I tended to were Corsa Speeds.


Everything I have read has said the same thing and friends personal experience mirrored that, but damn if I didn't get a lot of miles out of mine. Like I said, I might be an outlier in terms of tire durability or really, really lucky. I should go play the lotto...


I'm n=2. I've used Corsa Speed for TT, RR, criterium, and non-wood track for years now, and they've been just fine.

I can only remember one flat off-hand. That was a pinch flat in a 100-mile TT. (tubeless pinch flat, no less, which was a feat).

Does that make it a durable tyre? Surely what matters is what others have experienced. If someone asks you what your thoughts on the Corsa Speed were you would mention your experience, but surely add that many other people had had issues with Corsa Speeds. If I had never had any problems with my Corsa Speeds I would still mention to people that plenty of others had had problems. I don't get why people recommend these tyres based on their own individual experiences.

That said, these tyres were never designed for triathlon or long road races on sub standard roads. You only have to pick one up and compare it to a Conti Competition to see they are a completely different tyre, with a different purpose. Vittoria also do state on their website these tyres are only fit for short TTs and are their least durable tyre (bar the track tyres). Hence the reason these tyres are only used in the TDF for the TT stage. So it's unfair for me to say they are a shit tyre because I flatted a few times during Ironman races. Vittoria would never recommend them for an Ironman or even a 70.3. I have no idea how people can ride these for multiple seasons and not get flats, they are wafer thin.

In 8 years of racing I've had 7 flats, 3 flats in the first 2 years on Vittoria Rubin Pros, 2 of those were as I came in to T2 so was all good, 3 flats on Corsa Speeds in 1.5 seasons (I ditched them halfway through a season) and 1 flat on Continental Attacks. I'm now on Conti Attacks for my training wheels (2 years without a flat, shit roads) and Conti Comps for racing, no flats. I actually have 3 Corsa Speeds sitting in my garage and for shits and giggles was thinking about putting them on my training wheels to see how long they last. (tubs).
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:

Does that make it a durable tyre? Surely what matters is what others have experienced. If someone asks you what your thoughts on the Corsa Speed were you would mention your experience, but surely add that many other people had had issues with Corsa Speeds.

The "n=2" makes it clear I was only talking about myself, and wasn't making any broad claims.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
zedzded wrote:


Does that make it a durable tyre? Surely what matters is what others have experienced. If someone asks you what your thoughts on the Corsa Speed were you would mention your experience, but surely add that many other people had had issues with Corsa Speeds.


The "n=2" makes it clear I was only talking about myself, and wasn't making any broad claims.

Ah OK, all good :)

That said, I wouldn't mind giving the Corsa's another crack. Maybe they're not that bad.They were my first tubs. The first two flats I hadn't used sealant (rookie error) the 3rd flat I felt it go down slightly and changed it, but in hindsight I think the sealant sealed the hole and I could have topped it up with c02 without changing it. Flats 4 and 5 were slow punctures, but when I got home I pumped them up and they seemed fine. I think it might have been leaky valve extenders, user error. So really, if I'd injected sealant from day 1 and ensured valve extenders were tight perhaps I would have had only 1 partial flat.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
MTM wrote:
Xavier wrote:
That's the thicker 25-28 Vittoria inner tube, I wonder if that's why it's coming out slower and not what MTM found if he used a 19-23 tube?


I actually also used the 25-28mm Vittoria tube in my testing - albeit the old one with brass valve as the new one with aluminum valve wasn't out at the time. IIRC the new one has some graphene in it (like Silca's - which I think Josh said should make it ever so slightly faster, but who knows).

I actually tested the thicker/larger Vittoria tube as it seems more sturdy as rruff mentions, so it was to see if there was any drawback to running that vs. the very thin Vredestein. At least with regards to installation and general handling it seems more sturdy with the thicker and larger tube. My totally anecdoctal evidence suggest the Vittoria 25-28mm tubes are holding up fine against sharp objects penetrating the tyre - I had several sharp flints penetrate my tyre during last winter with none of them puncturing the tube. But the thin Vredestein might have held up fine as well?

Also, I've been wondering whether a stretched thin tube has more or less hystersis than a thicker less stretched tube. Maybe if Vredestein made a 25-28mm tube that would be the best?


If I get the chance to test different size latex inners I'll give it a go. Just got a RevoLoop inner tube which is really light, supposedly the same speed as latex etc. so that'll be interesting to test.


The would be interesting. Guess the Vittoria 19-24 mm (I think that's the size of the smaller one) vs. 25-28 mm would be the obvious comparison - less material vs. less stretch.

I don't hold much faith in those plasticky tubes. Seems like an awful material if you don't want hysteresis.
Last edited by: MTM: Oct 12, 20 11:58
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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My first experience with the Record clincher was back in 2009. Raced it on the front wheel at IM Austria and was lucky to get round without any dramas - never dared chance my luck in an IM with it again though. 19mm wide IIRC!

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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I may or may not have already picked up 8 of these (they're so thin that I can't imagine running them for more than 250km) but does anyone know if there are any plans to offer a 25c version? I'm guessing a 25c would be a bit faster and more comfortable on my Roval 321 disc and maybe up front as well.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Have you tested tubular v tubular, Veloflex v Corsa Speed v Dugast?

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Well I just received my pair of Records in case I'm given a slot at Challenge Miami. Crazy thin. And also a very different type of construction vs. any other tire I've ever seen. It really looks and feels like it's just the gum colored material with a tiny strip of glued down the center. Almost would make nervous to corner even moderately hard on it.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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They are super thin aren't they. I wouldn't worry about grip, four of us rode these in a motor circuit TT end of last year, I was banking the bike over at >60kph each lap and no loss of grip, our top male rider was doing the same/faster and he was fine too:

https://www.strava.com/activities/4181946730/analysis

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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All track tubulars have been built like that for decades, and ran at 130-160 PSI, at 70-80 km/h on sharp bends without any problems.
High end tubulars have to be made of the best fabrics though, be it cotton, silk or poly, as well as glues and rubber (synthetic or natural).

Mine are stretching and waiting for summer of 2021' :-).


I will order a few more just in case though...

Louis :-)
Last edited by: louisn: Feb 19, 21 17:36
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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Those are new models like the clinchers?
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Yes.
Here's one of them on a 88 X 25 mm Farsports Tubular rim ready to be built up soon:





Louis :-)
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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louisn wrote:
Yes.
Here's one of them on a 88 X 25 mm Farsports Tubular rim ready to be built up soon:





Louis :-)

They're not the same construction as the clinchers actually - they're also worse for Crr than the clinchers. The tread pattern is more similar to the Veloflex Corsa range than the Record clincher.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [sesel] [ In reply to ]
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sesel wrote:
My first experience with the Record clincher was back in 2009. Raced it on the front wheel at IM Austria and was lucky to get round without any dramas - never dared chance my luck in an IM with it again though. 19mm wide IIRC!

Wow, you’re back!

E

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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???
I would agree on the Crr as the tubular version has an added calicot (thin fabric) layer (casing protection lol !) under the "rubber".
But everything else is the same.
Thread pattern, or absence of it rather, is the same.
If you have a different pattern on the ones you got they're the old Record tubs.
It may "feel" different because of the calicot layer underneath it on the tubular version.

https://www.veloflex.it/en/clincher-tire-record-2020
https://www.veloflex.it/en/tubular-tire-record


Louis :-)
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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The new Record tubulars have different tread thickness, different outer tread pattern and also have treated sidewalls, unlike the VF Record clinchers

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting.

I have lots of new Veloflex tubulars here (Record, Pro Tour, Pro Tour Race, Service Course) and I would say it's very difficult, even impossible for me to measure rolling band thickness alone ( not the total thickness of the tire with it's underside glued protection ) without cutting them. There is a very little noticeable difference in rolling band width though.

Xavier since you're a scientific, and can't rely like us on just some random info on some website or shady forum, you will have to cut them both and show us the difference :-D !! Do it for science !

Untreated ? I would also like to see the Crr difference on a same tire with, and without "sidewall treatment".
Then you can do another Crr test with a water soaked tire vs a "treated" one. That would be interesting.

Louis :-)
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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My unscientific rolling testing at 20 mph (32 kph) showed the new VF Record clinchers to be slower than my Corsa Speed 2.0 set up with inner tube. Not significantly slower, but slower nevertheless. I used Silca 700 x 24-30mm latex inner tube for the test runs. BRR also got similar test results: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...iews/veloflex-record

Did AeroCoach receive a magic, special VF Record clincher for their test?
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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If you're getting lots of flats or cuts, maybe in the future you want to try some nano-tech tires. THESE looked interesting...not sure how practical they are or would be.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
My unscientific rolling testing at 20 mph (32 kph) showed the new VF Record clinchers to be slower than my Corsa Speed 2.0 set up with inner tube. Not significantly slower, but slower nevertheless. I used Silca 700 x 24-30mm latex inner tube for the test runs. BRR also got similar test results: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...iews/veloflex-record

Did AeroCoach receive a magic, special VF Record clincher for their test?

Bubble burst!
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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note on flats: I've done four 70.3's on the Corsaspeeds with latex tubes, with the last one at Florida 70.3 having some pretty rough roads, and haven't flatted. That said, I'm ready to go tubeless, wider and lower tire pressure as I'm just finding that in 70.3 races, the roads can get rough enough at times that I'd love to be at a lower tire pressure for comfort and to hypothetically maintain forward momentum better.

I'd like to see a 25mm internal diameter rear disc and deep front wheel set I could run 28mm tubeless tires on at less than 75psi and for those to roll fast and be aerodynamic. Thoughts?

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
note on flats: I've done four 70.3's on the Corsaspeeds with latex tubes, with the last one at Florida 70.3 having some pretty rough roads, and haven't flatted. That said, I'm ready to go tubeless, wider and lower tire pressure as I'm just finding that in 70.3 races, the roads can get rough enough at times that I'd love to be at a lower tire pressure for comfort and to hypothetically maintain forward momentum better.

I'd like to see a 25mm internal diameter rear disc and deep front wheel set I could run 28mm tubeless tires on at less than 75psi and for those to roll fast and be aerodynamic. Thoughts?

I believe the HED Vanquish RCD is about as close as you will be able to get to that right now. 21mm internal and 30mm external. The Jet Disc has an even wider external width at 32mm and the same internal width. That is the widest set of disc wheels that I know about.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
My unscientific rolling testing at 20 mph (32 kph) showed the new VF Record clinchers to be slower than my Corsa Speed 2.0 set up with inner tube. Not significantly slower, but slower nevertheless. I used Silca 700 x 24-30mm latex inner tube for the test runs. BRR also got similar test results: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...iews/veloflex-record

Did AeroCoach receive a magic, special VF Record clincher for their test?

Brr test with butyl tubes. We’ve done and redone the VF record data on rollers, round a wooden velodrome and also round a tarmac velodrome with the same results!

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