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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
DrAlexHarrison wrote:
Bingo. Keeping air from interacting with messy areas = faster than a nice overall shape, when the object is not a uniform solid.


Wasn't that theory behind the British new Lotus track bikes? Wide front forks to be in line with legs or something?

Same with the old Obree bike with no top tube and super narrow bottom bracket. Idea was to get the knees in closer to behind the bike parts.

I can't speak to the intentional rationales behind the Lotus bike, but it seems more of a matter of allowing reduced air resistance to wheel movement, and maybe softening the air before it hits the legs with the ultra-wide fork. This is all less of a tactic of deflection around certain areas though as just putting the things that catch air mostly in line with each other.

Victor is probably deflecting air mostly around his thighs rather than just "softening" it. I would bet that there is effectively a pocket of air under his chest & belly that is moving right along with him because of the very closed off front end. I have no evidence for this. But I think that's essentially the goal of an air deflection strategy, rather than a strategy of just breaking the air first before it subsequently impacts another component of the rider-bike system albeit with less effective velocity than it would have if unimpeded.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Last edited by: DrAlexHarrison: Mar 10, 21 9:20
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Roughly 158 riders started that TT today and they were all pretty similar in their choices of ... and elbow angles that are pretty obtuse - but not this guy


Not the guy who won, either...



Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [mammamia] [ In reply to ]
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but then his (obsolete and ugly) POC helmet, looked like the visor got lost during the race

I'm told he removed the visor himself to get more ventilation.

Those "obsolete" helmets are being produced again, undoubtedly due to POC noticing that the ones on the secondary market have been selling for multiples of the original retail price following the success of the HUUB/Wattbike team (and others) using them on the track.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
Quote:

Roughly 158 riders started that TT today and they were all pretty similar in their choices of ... and elbow angles that are pretty obtuse - but not this guy



Not the guy who won, either...


I wonder if Jim from ERO tested Besseger. Supposedly his road position is a hair under .18. Any comment Jim?
Last edited by: turdburgler: Mar 10, 21 9:59
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [mammamia] [ In reply to ]
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mammamia wrote:
" his socks were deemed to high at the start line and was forced to remove them"

this would make a lot of sense


Typically when socks are too long, guys just pull them down a little. Then once they're past the UCI check they pull them back up. :)


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also, bissegger who won the TT, came across the finish w/o visor. but then his (obsolete and ugly) POC helmet,


Some people with good knowledge consider the Tempor to be the fastest for some people. POC actually brought it back into production this past year due to demand. As for the looks, it looks great when you win.
Last edited by: trail: Mar 10, 21 10:00
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I love the POC. Bonus watts for ducks.

It is by far the fastest for me.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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I'm getting a kick out of seeing a lot of these new(er) fast fits look as much like the Obree "egg" position as is possible given materials constraints.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Not the guy who won, either...

True Dat. I like that he ripped the shield off that helmet before the final climb.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
Quote:


but then his (obsolete and ugly) POC helmet, looked like the visor got lost during the race


I'm told he removed the visor himself to get more ventilation.

Those "obsolete" helmets are being produced again, undoubtedly due to POC noticing that the ones on the secondary market have been selling for multiples of the original retail price following the success of the HUUB/Wattbike team (and others) using them on the track.

The Tempor is an oldy but goody product. I think the reason for POC doing another production run was more for all the track teams that wanted to use it for the Olympics. I think the term “obsolete” is appropriate if you want to talk about comfort and usability. The visor attachment sucks, the quality of the lens is so-so, there is nothing like the MIPS on the inside and fit adjustments just plain suck. Nevertheless, If it works for you, it works really well. I have had people tell me to “name your price” to buy mine and there is no way I am selling. Even if I got $1000, I couldn’t buy as much speed as I lost.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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None of that is obsolescence, it's just the product being exactly what it was designed to be; the fastest helmet they could make for Gustav Larsson to ride at the Olympics, to hell with anything else, including aesthetics and ease of use for some age group triathlete that might want to wear the thing at some point down the road.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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POC started producing the Tempor again. They're freely available (in the UK at least)
e.g. https://www.gohelmets.co.uk/...2197?variant=403-361
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:


Sock height is a thing. It appears that shoe covers and the height of those are both are advantageous aerodynamically. The UCI has gone as far as to limit the height of those spats.
Campenaerts - no socks, thanks.

I've seen bare legs test faster than many of the brands of socks that claim to be aero and faster than tall socks.


ianpeace wrote:
Aero helmets with built in eye shields, visors, whatever the proper term might be - seem like a legit thing. I'm sure helmet designers can quote cda numbers for their built in lenses.
Campenaerts - no shield, thanks.

Some helmets are designed around the eye shield, it's part of what make the helmet so fast. other helmets throw it on as an after thought or it makes no difference. IDK if he started that way, maybe it fell off?

Brian Stover USAT LII
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [sommer] [ In reply to ]
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sommer wrote:
I guess my only response would be that maybe he's actually the one guy that actually tests every detail and makes decisions on every detail based off of his test results. I can't imagine too many UCI guys are testing every TT detail like he is.

This is that video that I was referring to earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn5wXswY94w

Hard to disagree with this one. If you pause the video at 1:30 you can see some of his test results. 40-41 kph on 200 W. With a noted tha the most aggressive position (guessing the 41 kph) is not to be used and position to match what he had on the Ridley. I am about the same height as Vic and have averaged 40 kph on flat courses with little wind on 216 W, 41 kph on 200 W even on the velodrome, is very good.

Having said that, no socks seems a bit weird to me. He only placed 59th so he wasn't pushing 100% (was runner up to Ganna last year on a good year), maybe just riding for comfort that day?
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hello ianpeace and All,

https://bikerumor.com/...s-paris-nice-tt-win/

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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nealhe wrote:
Hello ianpeace and All,

https://bikerumor.com/...s-paris-nice-tt-win/

Cool, under 1kg rim brake disc....

All those who say rim brakes are inferior on a technical TT course, already blew a gasket.
No need to trigger.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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nealhe wrote:
Hello ianpeace and All,

https://bikerumor.com/...s-paris-nice-tt-win/
Nice looking wheel. Retail price of $5700. LOL.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
nealhe wrote:
Hello ianpeace and All,
https://bikerumor.com/...s-paris-nice-tt-win/

Nice looking wheel. Retail price of $5700. LOL.

Give it 10 years. I envision aero wheels that instead of more rigid carbon are made of light weight amorphous solids that can alter their shape based on the yaw angle presented to them. $10000 per wheel.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
I envision aero wheels that instead of more rigid carbon are made of light weight amorphous solids that can alter their shape based on the yaw angle presented to them.

And then the UCI will ban them.

Why would any company invest in R&D only to be banned as soon as people see the potential ?
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:
I envision aero wheels that instead of more rigid carbon are made of light weight amorphous solids that can alter their shape based on the yaw angle presented to them.

And then the UCI will ban them.

Why would any company invest in R&D only to be banned as soon as people see the potential ?

Well, in the US exactly 1 in 10000 buyers of aero wheels likely need to abide by UCI rules even in USAC time trial events.

Just sayin.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
marcag wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:
I envision aero wheels that instead of more rigid carbon are made of light weight amorphous solids that can alter their shape based on the yaw angle presented to them.


And then the UCI will ban them.

Why would any company invest in R&D only to be banned as soon as people see the potential ?


Well, in the US exactly 1 in 10000 buyers of aero wheels likely need to abide by UCI rules even in USAC time trial events.

Just sayin.

And how many will pay the $10k per wheel ?

Just askin :-)
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [The Red Baron] [ In reply to ]
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The Red Baron wrote:
POC started producing the Tempor again. They're freely available (in the UK at least)
e.g. https://www.gohelmets.co.uk/...2197?variant=403-361
Anyone live in the UK and want to ship me one? I'll PayPal immediately for helmet cost, shipping cost, and compensate for your time. DM me or reply here.

I'm in Tucson, AZ, USA.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [The Red Baron] [ In reply to ]
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I heard this was due to strong demand for the next movie of the start wars saga.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
nealhe wrote:
Hello ianpeace and All,

https://bikerumor.com/...s-paris-nice-tt-win/


Cool, under 1kg rim brake disc....
.

The Citec Ultra has 800g and costs one third ...
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [BergHugi] [ In reply to ]
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BergHugi wrote:
windschatten wrote:
nealhe wrote:
Hello ianpeace and All,

https://bikerumor.com/...s-paris-nice-tt-win/


Cool, under 1kg rim brake disc....
.


The Citec Ultra has 800g and costs one third ...
So I wasn't familiar with Citec wheels until this comment and I just looked into them. Their specs are almost unreal. Like how are they able to do a 12 spoke front wheel when pretty much no one else is able to do under 16?

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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You can build a wheel with a handful of spokes if you want, that doesn't mean it's very good or will stay true for very long.
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