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Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices
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I was watching the Paris Nice TT today and Victor Campenaerts caught my eye. I know he broke the Hour Record in 2019 w/ 55.089km. I tend to think that one hour record holders look to every detail of speed...I also think that many hour record holders are a true breed apart. Campenaerts gives me pause.

Sock height is a thing. It appears that shoe covers and the height of those are both are advantageous aerodynamically. The UCI has gone as far as to limit the height of those spats.
Campenaerts - no socks, thanks.

Aero helmets with built in eye shields, visors, whatever the proper term might be - seem like a legit thing. I'm sure helmet designers can quote cda numbers for their built in lenses.
Campenaerts - no shield, thanks.

There are lots of fitters who like a longer cockpit. I know in hydrodynamics that a "longer hull" is fast and there might be some similarities through the wind too.
Campenaerts - I'll be all bunched up, thanks.



Ian Murray
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I would assume he's done the aero testing on the bars. Setup looks quite similar to his hour record.

The socks thing is a little baffling to me. Even from a comfort perspective.

I'm doubtful visors make a material difference
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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I watched a video of his just yesterday on YouTube, detailing everything from shoe covers to shaving his hands. He's a detail freak. He mentioned that he tested faster without any eye protection. They had to test it multiple times because they couldn't believe it.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Shield, seems not to be a "given" in aero testing.

All bunched up = likely to direct air flow around his thigh and torso better than a more elongated position with more space between limb segments. Longer hull is better if increasing length of hull doesn't increase gaps and air interaction with the hull itself.

Maybe socks were of minimal consequence for aero and it was a heat dissipation choice?

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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know about the bunched up bit Ian, he seems like he is on the nose of the saddle and got the 90 degree bend in his elbows. He rides exactly like I like to ride, and the position is not bunched up, it is the comfort/power position. He could slide back on the saddle or reach out if he really wanted to on that bike, but when you are on the rivet, you pull yourself into what feels the best.

Perhaps there is some aero penalty for that( I dont believe so), but even if so, probably over shadowed by the increase in power he can generate with all his limbs in their most powerful and comfortable(as in being able to hold for long periods of time) positions.

But what do I know.... (-;
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Campenaerts - I'll be all bunched up, thanks.
Keep in mind he may be working within the constraints of UCI bar reach rules, and just really forward on the saddle (in general or just at that moment).
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [MattyK] [ In reply to ]
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Most y'all are missing the point of my post... and that's my fault for not being clear.

Roughly 158 riders started that TT today and they were all pretty similar in their choices of stuff like eye coverings, shoe covers that become rather high socks (BUT NOT TOO HIGH), and elbow angles that are pretty obtuse - but not this guy. Now you may might say, Vic's doesn't care, or Vic's a triathlete at heart, or Vic's a climber and he's just roll this out, or he's a sprinter so this isn't his day - none of that would be correct. Anybody who's taken the Hour Record in the past...say, 50 years cares and Victor's none of those other things.

I find that interesting.

And MattyK to you specifically they all have the same UCI constraints, they each likely vie for one ME (morphological Exemption) - you're right, he may have taken his on the saddle nose/BB and had to leave this aero extensions short - 'cause you can't get two MEs but you can get one.

Maybe by going against the grain on the socks he can distract the officials on the something else??



Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Mar 10, 21 8:16
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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What are the chances that his socks were deemed to high at the start line and was forced to remove them? I also thought it was really weird that he didn't have socks or shoe covers.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I guess my only response would be that maybe he's actually the one guy that actually tests every detail and makes decisions on every detail based off of his test results. I can't imagine too many UCI guys are testing every TT detail like he is.

This is that video that I was referring to earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn5wXswY94w
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I think the only odd thing is the no socks/covers. Josh Poertner has mentioned multiple times on the Marginal Gains Podcast that visors can vary drastically from one rider to another. Sure, with a helmet like th Aerohear we know it's faster with a visor 99% of the time, but there's no reason to make that assumption for all helmets.

Also, I believe it's been stated on here that most pro tour guys aren't actually getting wind tunnel time for their TT setup. No reason to if they're not threatening to win ITTs or GC contenders.

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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe his subtle way of saying "this TT is not my focus", like wearing knee warmers in the classics.

At least he's got the EKOI helmet close to his neck. The KOINA might be faster than their other TT helmet, the TTRB, when head low and down but it doesn't look very aero when riders are more upright.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Looking at some pictures of Campenaerts he usually takes either aero socks or aero over shoes. Why not yesterday? The guess that his over shoes were not in favor of the commissioner is reasonable. Or may be they just forgot them in the hotel, shit happens.

There are some fast TT women and man who usually test every thing but don't use socks or over shoes. In our tests some socks and some over shoes came out faster than bare legs, others not so.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
Also, I believe it's been stated on here that most pro tour guys aren't actually getting wind tunnel time for their TT setup. No reason to if they're not threatening to win ITTs or GC contenders.

This may have been true a few years ago, but certainly not now. I know the entire ISN team has been the to the tunnel at least once a year, climber/GC/TTers - all. What you do with your allotted tunnel time, that depends on the brains of the rider and DS. Campenaerts will have tested every single component. The HJC time trial helmet of his previous team was practically developed on his head as test-dummy. He launched the Speedbar craze that became nearly standard equipment for TT specialists.

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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [rowleycd] [ In reply to ]
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" his socks were deemed to high at the start line and was forced to remove them"

this would make a lot of sense

also, bissegger who won the TT, came across the finish w/o visor. but then his (obsolete and ugly) POC helmet, looked like the visor got lost during the race
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [mammamia] [ In reply to ]
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mammamia wrote:
also, bissegger who won the TT, came across the finish w/o visor. but then his (obsolete and ugly) POC helmet, looked like the visor got lost during the race

I mean, he had the choice of the other POC aero helmet every other one of his teammates used and chose this one, so I imagine it was the quickest helmet available to him. Also; Obsolete- quite a few TT riders may disagree there, as well as the fact he supposedly has the lowest CDA Jonathon Vaughters has ever seen. Ugly- for casual wear, agree. for TT riding, it looks sick, and even better (and its gotta be faster) when there's a duck painted on it.

In terms of the visor, I'd wager he discarded it for the final climb where he's out of aero out of the saddle, because it would be in an awkward position for this, but that's just a guess.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [mammamia] [ In reply to ]
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mammamia wrote:
" his socks were deemed to high at the start line and was forced to remove them"

this would make a lot of sense

also, bissegger who won the TT, came across the finish w/o visor. but then his (obsolete and ugly) POC helmet, looked like the visor got lost during the race
"obsolete and ugly"?
I agree it's not very aesthetically pleasing to my eye, but that's not it's purpose. Anyone who places form ahead of function deserves worse performance. Unfortunately most people do and it's very easy to sell form and spoof about function....
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:

I was watching the Paris Nice TT today and Victor Campenaerts caught my eye. I know he broke the Hour Record in 2019 w/ 55.089km. I tend to think that one hour record holders look to every detail of speed...I also think that many hour record holders are a true breed apart. Campenaerts gives me pause.

Sock height is a thing. It appears that shoe covers and the height of those are both are advantageous aerodynamically. The UCI has gone as far as to limit the height of those spats.
Campenaerts - no socks, thanks.

Aero helmets with built in eye shields, visors, whatever the proper term might be - seem like a legit thing. I'm sure helmet designers can quote cda numbers for their built in lenses.
Campenaerts - no shield, thanks.

There are lots of fitters who like a longer cockpit. I know in hydrodynamics that a "longer hull" is fast and there might be some similarities through the wind too.
Campenaerts - I'll be all bunched up, thanks.


Victor has tested helmets in the tunnel and has stated that with that and his older helmet, he tested faster without the visor.

That said, he was NOT focusing on that TT yesterday hence the lack of overshoes, aero socks and a few other things. His spring goals right now are focusing on cobble and Classics type of riding and TTs are not the focus right now so I wouldn't read in to much. His position is still beautiful though. The interview is Belgian for those who want to find it.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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The other thing I forgot to mention was that going in to the TT he wasn't far back on GC. Obviously the guy isn't suited to pure mountain stages and GC overall, so I suspect that he also didn't mind losing time going in that TT as he goes in to a lumpy stage like today so that he has a chance of being allowed in the breakaway. That breakaway riding would be invaluable classics training and would go a long ways to working toward his spring goals. If he remained as high up on the GC there is no chance he'd be allowed to go in a break should he choose.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [mammamia] [ In reply to ]
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mammamia wrote:
also, bissegger who won the TT, came across the finish w/o visor. but then his (obsolete and ugly) POC helmet, looked like the visor got lost during the race

How is it obsolete if it tests stupid fast on certain people? I run that helmet. I tested it out at 10w faster at 28mph. Which is just a hair under my flat land speed. Not to mention if I've got some false flats downhill for any appreciable time going over 30.

I haven't the cash recently to try another helmet out. I am in the middle of a different project involving money.

Next, if you're blessed with the right sized noggin........you can actually insert your forehead to helmets with visors and rotate them on without ever messing with the visors. So, once affixed you don't run the risk of losing or breaking the visors.

I do this with my road bike helmet the Vanquish and my TT helmet Tempor. Forehead in first, rotate onto head. Never removing the visor.
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison wrote:

All bunched up = likely to direct air flow around his thigh and torso better than a more elongated position....

Just to add to this (based upon a Tokyo project I've been working on), controlled air deflection rather than an objects aero shaping alone is worth considering for experimentation with Alex's observation above. This was checked with a smoke trail in the wind tunnel as it wasn't a result I was personally expecting or had even considered at the time. Every day is a school day I guess......
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [UK Gearmuncher] [ In reply to ]
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I'm as baffled by the no sock thing as the group, especially knowing that Victor tests pretty much everything.

On the no visor, that's been tested for him. If you have the right head shape (i.e. typically larger), there isn't much difference between nothing / glasses / visor. But to be on the safe side, you rarely find a visor being slower than nothing...

He seems to have played a bit with his latest position and the new cockpit, given he was with speedbars before....
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [Belgian_Waffle] [ In reply to ]
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Belgian_Waffle wrote:
I'm as baffled by the no sock thing as the group, especially knowing that Victor tests pretty much everything.

I'm not. It may not 100% work for everyone but several top british amateur TT'ers have ridden that way in the past as it proved faster for them (note: it was for me too until I moved to Nopinz's overshoes).
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [UK Gearmuncher] [ In reply to ]
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According to his insta or Twitter, he forgot his PE kit...
Nothing more, nothing less.


Last edited by: philg: Mar 10, 21 5:44
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [UK Gearmuncher] [ In reply to ]
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Bingo. Keeping air from interacting with messy areas = faster than a nice overall shape, when the object is not a uniform solid.

I've never been in a wind tunnel but have spent ample time in a bobsled. Icy air while wearing spandex is a fast teacher. That and being a 100kg rider with no fitness trying to hang onto cat 1s and 2s will teach you aerodynamics real fast.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Victor Campenaerts and his aero choices [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison wrote:
Bingo. Keeping air from interacting with messy areas = faster than a nice overall shape, when the object is not a uniform solid.

Wasn't that theory behind the British new Lotus track bikes? Wide front forks to be in line with legs or something?

Same with the old Obree bike with no top tube and super narrow bottom bracket. Idea was to get the knees in closer to behind the bike parts.
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