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Zwift Duathlon Race Series
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article is on the front page. wednesdays, starting feb 17th, 6 consecutive weeks total. i intend to win, of course!

i'll add as i know more, but, what i think is now the case is: 6 weeks, 1 race per week, wednesdays, various time zone options. one 35 minute bike race, mass start, but no-draft, so, you'll want to switch out to a tri bike, deep wheels, aero helmet and so on. then, 10min gap, my guess is that you'll back out of zwift, re log in, you'll log into "run" this time, and you'll have pre-entered (of course) the run event. no, you can't do the bike in an earlier time zone and the run of a later time zone. this is a couplet of events. you'll enter the bike race, then a run race that takes place exactly 45 minutes later.

zwift duathlon home is here.

you complete a number of meters in the bike race over that 35min period. then a number of meters in the run event. you get 1 point for every 5 meters cycled and 1 for every meter run. most points win. you do need to wear a HRM to score.

as i know more you'll know more, but, this is what i know as of this moment, and i absolutely intend to race this. if i can predict, think herbert's going to be all over this as well. it's going to be fun.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Jan 29, 21 13:36
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Signed up and excited for this. Not sure I need another day of hard efforts, between zrl on Tuesdays, and wtrl ttt’s on Thursdays but I like the format, and that they are putting this together.
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Signing up, waiting for my WTRL confirmation email!

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't signed up for the wtrl account yet, so can't see details of registration.

What if anything does it cost to sign up for these races?

Kyle
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Any guesses on what happens on inclines in the run course?
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Chan] [ In reply to ]
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Chan wrote:
Any guesses on what happens on inclines in the run course?

because zwift doesn't control your treadmill, i'd be shocked if your duty was to do anything but run on level ground. i think setting your treadmill to decline would be a no-no (if your treadmill does that), but i just think level for the whole run regardless of the course profile is the way to do. i did a tdz run yesterday, stage 6 or thereabouts i think, i'm pretty sure everybody kept their treadmill level. well, i usually start at a 1% or 1.5% grade, and then when i get halfway through, and speed is important to me, i'll gradually move it to level. but i don't think you have a duty in the run to do anything but run.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [KWTri] [ In reply to ]
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KWTri wrote:
I haven't signed up for the wtrl account yet, so can't see details of registration.

What if anything does it cost to sign up for these races?

Kyle

i don't know that there's any cost. i guess we'll see, but i don't think there's a cost. i registered yesterday to race. that's a whole separate thing you go through, signing up with zwiftpower. no big deal, just, you have to do it, so, the sooner the better. and, you have to race with a HRM, so best to get that sorted, and to ride and run with your HRM a few times before the racing starts so you make sure that you get any of the kinks out of that in advance.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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WTRL are highly unlikely to charge. If they were going to charge it'd be for the ZRL I'd imagine as that's there biggest series
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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So the usual issues apply here.
If you think Zwift doping on the bike is bad, how do we even vaguely look at running seriously?
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
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Genuine question - I don't understand the doping issue with zwift running.

When it comes to cycling the issue is that heavier riders will likely have more muscle, more power and be able to put out consistently more Watts, so if they avatar is a lower weight then this power will be converted to more speed based on the zwift algorithm.

In the case of running, I assumed zwift took the actual speed reading of the treadmill, so 15km/h is 15km/h in real life and on the game, regardless if the runner weighs 50kg or 150kg?

May have deeply misunderstood.
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [PJH] [ In reply to ]
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some footpods are horribly calibrated and can give ridiculous readings, but i wouldn't say its super common. you could set the treadmill to 12mph with the Runn sensor and just go sit on the couch, and the speed would stay steady...but there would be no cadence reading. maybe they should make cadence mandatory? or that may preclude people using a smart treadmilll, do they transmit cadence?
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [jflan] [ In reply to ]
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That's funny. Your post made me rethink what I was thinking in that either a smart TM or Runn should be manditory. But yeah, I don't think either of them would transmit cadence. I literally just ordered the Runn this morning and I really don't want to get a footpod, nor do I really like the need to calibrate and move it from one pair of shoes to the other. It's annoying that my Garmin 235 measures cadence and HR but doesn't sync with Zwift for some reason. Either way...I guess in the end, it's a (most likely) free race series...if someone's going to cheat on that, that's on them.
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [PJH] [ In reply to ]
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PJH wrote:
Genuine question - I don't understand the doping issue with zwift running.

In the case of running, I assumed zwift took the actual speed reading of the treadmill, so 15km/h is 15km/h in real life and on the game, regardless if the runner weighs 50kg or 150kg?

May have deeply misunderstood.

The vast majority of treadmills don’t transmit anything.

So you have to use a foot pod or add on like Runn

You calibrate these in Zwift to a set known speed you will run at.

Super easy to cheat. You calibrate your foot pod at 9mph when I. Real life you set your treadmill at 6mph. Now you can trot along at 6mph and seeming run at 6:15 pace all day long.


Also, treadmills are often quite inaccurate with indicated speed often not reality.

You can even game things like the Runn sensor by altering calibration or changing tape markers in the belt, etc.

Running on Zwift is pretty much assumed to be cheating presently until some new standard comes along.

We would need some sort of digitial versus real life biological performance passport. You’re online result heart rate has to match within 5 beats of your known outside heart rate for a rolling or lifetime performance speed graph.

There. That’s my first shot at standardizing performance.
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
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iamuwere wrote:
Running on Zwift is pretty much assumed to be cheating presently until some new standard comes along.

i'm not against additional standards. but i don't see evidence that what you're saying here is actually the case. taking me for example, i'm right now probably a B+/C- cyclist. but i'm a B runner. i can way outrun a B pace partner, but i can't yet run with the A pace partner. this is way different than cycling with the A or B pace partners. i'm not that much better as a runner than i am a cyclist. this is just the nature of runners and running on zwift right now.

i think we'd see something different if there was a lot of cheating in zwift run. is there cheating? will there be cheating? you bet. however, after a long history in running, cycling and triathlon i am - ahem - cautiously optimisitic that the culture of cheating in triathlon is not nearly as prolific as it is in cycling. so, because you can cheat on a treadmill doesn't mean you will cheat on a treadmill.

the very last thing i'm worried about in zwift duathlon is treadmill cheating. the one thing i wish they'd do is - fudgeit - call it a biathlon, in homage to the old days! when that sport was big. you can almost chart the demise of "du"athlon with the changing of the name from biathlon.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I think this is a great idea. Very much looking forward to a reason to do some fast speed work in the middle of a dark, slush filled Ohio winter. Who cares if someone cheats, per se. I'm racing against myself. Doubting they will provide "All American" status to anyone. And, why do people care so much anyways. You're still alone, by yourself, in your basement. Just enjoy the format and see how much faster you can get by the end of the six weeks.

Like the idea of the 10 minute gap to exit and then re-enter in Run mode. However, if the app can pair to both my Wahoo Kickr and Runn devices at the same time.....we could have a true T2 and start the run clock immediately. My Runn does track/transmit cadence. This would be a fair way to insure someone is actually running on the treadmill. Then. maybe don't allow for a calibration unit differing from 1.0 so everyone is based to their own treadmill's accuracy. Not great, but a bit more fair.

Again, I'm looking at this as a training device, don't talk smack and don't plan on starting. Not why I'm here, not why I try to stay in shape at 53 with a very busy job. So, this is cool as shit. I've been doing a variant of this already on my own that started last winter. Great motivator.

My $.02,

Brian

"We don't inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children." --Chief Seattle
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [osugasman] [ In reply to ]
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osugasman wrote:
I think this is a great idea. Very much looking forward to a reason to do some fast speed work in the middle of a dark, slush filled Ohio winter. Who cares if someone cheats, per se. I'm racing against myself. Doubting they will provide "All American" status to anyone. And, why do people care so much anyways. You're still alone, by yourself, in your basement. Just enjoy the format and see how much faster you can get by the end of the six weeks.

Like the idea of the 10 minute gap to exit and then re-enter in Run mode. However, if the app can pair to both my Wahoo Kickr and Runn devices at the same time.....we could have a true T2 and start the run clock immediately. My Runn does track/transmit cadence. This would be a fair way to insure someone is actually running on the treadmill. Then. maybe don't allow for a calibration unit differing from 1.0 so everyone is based to their own treadmill's accuracy. Not great, but a bit more fair.

Again, I'm looking at this as a training device, don't talk smack and don't plan on starting. Not why I'm here, not why I try to stay in shape at 53 with a very busy job. So, this is cool as shit. I've been doing a variant of this already on my own that started last winter. Great motivator.

My $.02,

Brian

taking myself as an example, i have a separate appletv set up for my treadmill. i could, conceivably, be online ready to go for both events. however, i only have 1 zwift account, and this is the hickup. i have to close out of zwift, and then reopen the app and log into my run account. this actually means as far as i can tell that there is no real speed advantage to having separate computers for the bike trainer and treadmill. the best i can do is to join each event in advance.

having a runn installed serves a couple of functions. it's more accurate than the treadmill itself, and it tracks cadence. theoretically. a number of people have commented that runn's cadence sensor is dodgy. however, i think having the HR monitor going is a pretty good check, unless you want to set your powered treadmill to a 6min mile and then just hop back on your bike ;-)

but as you say, if somebody's going to go to elaborate lengths to cheat the zwift duathlon, he has a bigger problem than you and i living with the knowledge that there's a cheater in our midst.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Yeaaa. A new reason to like Wednesdays. Sounds like fun
I can see some fun training opportunities here.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [teachersteve] [ In reply to ]
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teachersteve wrote:
It's annoying that my Garmin 235 measures cadence and HR but doesn't sync with Zwift for some reason. Either way...I guess in the end, it's a (most likely) free race series...if someone's going to cheat on that, that's on them.

Have you tried broadcasting your HR in your 235. I believe they added this feature fairly recently so you may need an update. I do that with my Fenix and my AppleTV picks up the signal in Zwift.
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [IanH] [ In reply to ]
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IanH wrote:
teachersteve wrote:
It's annoying that my Garmin 235 measures cadence and HR but doesn't sync with Zwift for some reason. Either way...I guess in the end, it's a (most likely) free race series...if someone's going to cheat on that, that's on them.


Have you tried broadcasting your HR in your 235. I believe they added this feature fairly recently so you may need an update. I do that with my Fenix and my AppleTV picks up the signal in Zwift.


I have. According to the Zwift website, the 235 isn't compatible. The 245 is. Go figure.

I think my Wahoo Tickr actually transmits cadence, so that may work too.
Last edited by: teachersteve: Feb 1, 21 0:59
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
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iamuwere wrote:
So the usual issues apply here.
If you think Zwift doping on the bike is bad, how do we even vaguely look at running seriously?

Since Zwift at it's fundamental core is a video game, of course there are ways to cheat and a few unscrupulous people will cheat. But when I race on Zwift it's me against myself. And if I end up on the Podium it's a bonus! I've also seen when people do cheat and they end up atop the leaderboard it's pretty obvious. For me this series (like Zwift cycle racing) will be about having fun and getting stronger. The real races for me are real-life Triathlon events, and Zwift racing absolutely gets me strong and fit for those.
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, you can theoretically cheat with a Runn sensor and just set the treadmill and not run (it does transmit cadence, but can be a bit a flakey at times, I find especially on cold days in my garage, I get cadence drop outs from my Runn). That being said, I assume this is part of the reasoning for mandatory HR, so that if there's massive speed/HR disconnects, there will be DSQs...

As some who is a C rider with D fitness, and who's current run fitness is mediocre, I fully expect to get slaughtered racing these, but seems like good motivation to bury yourself with a weekly Brick... although technically these are Bike-Runs, not Duathlons, but I'm not complaining...
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Any idea how the series scoring will work? I am definitely interested in racing but I know I won't be able to make every week work.

https://www.strava.com/athletes/23685202
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Dan,
I know you have a Woodway, curious to get your take on the RUNN sensor. I've tried to get an NPE GEM to work for the past year, albeit massively on and off again, but never got it to work. Currently if I am running 6.0 mph, it reads as .6mph on Zwift, pretty cool to see my avatar barely move. I then moved to Stryd and it under-reports my treadmill by a few percent, not a big deal. I trust my pretty much new Woodway 4 front over Stryd, but the Stryd is very repeatable for power and that's why I have it. I now just use Stryd for power based run workouts and no longer use Zwift as it doesn't connect to multiple bluetooth sources, which by the way would be great for Stryd. Should be on their roadmap since we have HR BT sensors connecting to sometimes 3 different apps/programs in the case of Wahoo. I'd spring for the RUNN just for this Duathlon series if it is close to 100% accurate.
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [ACCRUN] [ In reply to ]
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If you trust your Woodway speed accuracy you can calibrate a Runn device to match the treadmill. So, all good.

tinman
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Re: Zwift Duathlon Race Series [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Have not yet signed up. But it seems like fun, and not crazy long
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