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Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run?
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I'm looking for some variety in one of my weekly runs. Current schedule looks like this:

Mon: (12 mi) WU, 8x5min progressive run to threshold, 3min recovery, 6x1/8th mi (1/4mile) Strides, CD
Tue: (7 mi) recovery run
Wed: (12 mi) WU, Tempo progression...Could be:

  • 6x1mi, or
  • 2mi+4x1mi or
  • 2x2mi+2x1mi, or
  • 3x2mi

  • (all on 3min rest), 6x30s (1:30) strides, CD

Thu: (7 mi) easy run
Fri: (7 mi) easy run
Sat: (15+ mi) 2 hour hard hilly run with 4x30s (1:30) strides in the last 30min.
Sun: off

That's roughly 60mpw. I've been following this rough schedule since early September (7 weeks), after coming down off the GVRAT, which was about 85 mpw (all easy).

I'll juggle Mon/Tue/Wed/Thu based on how I feel on Monday. If I'm still tired, I'll slide the progression/temp to Tue/Thu and do the recovery/easy on Mon/Wed.

I'm looking for something to replace (or alternate with) the Monday run:
WU, 8x5min progressive run to threshold, 3min recovery, 6x1/8th mi (1/4mile) Strides, CD

WU is 2 miles at recovery pace. Then increase pace 15s every 5 minutes. Usually for the last two 5min intervals, I'm sorta dividing my available "RPE headroom" as 15s each is typically a tick too much by then. The final 5min is about a 95% max effort.

It works fine, improvement happens week over week. I'm just kinda bored with it.

I don't have any races on the horizon. The earliest I might target "something" would be early Feb 2021 (14-16 weeks-ish). So, I have not been doing any super-threshold work. The last 5-10 minutes of the progression run is the closest I even get to pure threshold work...and strides are the closest I get to doing any Speed work.

So, runners....What-cha-got?
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Oct 20, 20 9:23
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Id either opt for hill repeats or 5k-10k paced stuff personally
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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SnowChicken wrote:
Id either opt for hill repeats or 5k-10k paced stuff personally


Thanks.

Hill repeats are mixed into my Long Run. I wasn't very clear on that, sorry. I have a hilly section about 2.5 miles from home that's a little over a mile long with 4 hills. I run over, and do 3-6 passes through the hills, charging up the hills and recovering on the backside. Then extend the run out to 2 hours.

If you've got a favorite 5k/10k pace workout...let's have it. I like structure, and I like structured progressions. Eg, one I've done in the past:

wk1: Warm-up then 2 miles at 10k followed by a set of 3 x 800M at (15s faster than 10k) and 3 x 800M at 10k.
wk2: Warm-up then 3 miles at 10k followed by a set of 2 x 800M at (15s faster than 10k) and 2 x 800M at 10k.
wk3: Warm-up then 4 miles at 10k followed by a set of 1 x 800M at (15s faster than 10k) and 1 x 800M at 10k.
....
Repeat above dropping pace by 15s.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Oct 20, 20 13:35
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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What are your PBs?

My week looks like this:

My bread and butter ~threshold workouts are:

1. 4-6x1600m with only 1min rest (cruise intervals) around 10k Pace or slighlty slower-
2. 8-12x1000m 1min rest 10k Pace or slighlty slower
3. 8k Tempo run slighly slower than 10k Pace

I would incorporate one of these once per week and for the second workout focus around 3k to 5k Pace to have some faster running as well.
For example:
20x200m
10-15x400m
these workouts with more recovery.
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [bentus] [ In reply to ]
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bentus wrote:
What are your PBs?

5:51 1600m
18:43 5K
42:21 10K


For completeness: Male. 52 yrs. 145 lbs.

Current threshold pace is around 6:45/mi. Its changing pretty quickly, right now, though.

6x1600m last Thursday was at 7:02/mi, and ~10bpm below threshold.

Quote:
I would incorporate one of these once per week and for the second workout focus around 3k to 5k Pace to have some faster running as well.
For example:
20x200m
10-15x400m

Yeah, that's a thought. I hadn't started adding in sub-10k pace stuff, yet. Hmmm....
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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I like 3 x 2 mile somewhere between marathon and half in a 90 min run....come to think of it I haven’t don’t that in awhile.

Also like 2 x 20 mins at half mp with 5-8 mins float recovery around 8-830 pace.

If it’s any consolation my half and full pace are only like 15-20 seconds apart.

Your 10k looks a little slow compared to your 5k and mile so I’d think you need more time at around 10k-half pace.
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [MiRoBu] [ In reply to ]
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MiRoBu wrote:
I like 3 x 2 mile somewhere between marathon and half in a 90 min run....come to think of it I haven’t don’t that in awhile.

Also like 2 x 20 mins at half mp with 5-8 mins float recovery around 8-830 pace.

If it’s any consolation my half and full pace are only like 15-20 seconds apart.

Your 10k looks a little slow compared to your 5k and mile so I’d think you need more time at around 10k-half pace.

Not that believe in excuses... But, I did have a quintuple bypass, open heart surgery a few weeks after that 10km this year. So, maybe...

I do know I'm faster now than I was back then on some test sections that I run by about 0:20/mi. But, yeah... I feel the same about the 10k pace.

I do the 3x2mi on Wed (or Thu).
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
MiRoBu wrote:
I like 3 x 2 mile somewhere between marathon and half in a 90 min run....come to think of it I haven’t don’t that in awhile.

Also like 2 x 20 mins at half mp with 5-8 mins float recovery around 8-830 pace.

If it’s any consolation my half and full pace are only like 15-20 seconds apart.

Your 10k looks a little slow compared to your 5k and mile so I’d think you need more time at around 10k-half pace.

Not that believe in excuses... But, I did have a quintuple bypass, open heart surgery a few weeks after that 10km this year. So, maybe...

I do know I'm faster now than I was back then on some test sections that I run by about 0:20/mi. But, yeah... I feel the same about the 10k pace.

I do the 3x2mi on Wed (or Thu).

You’re paces are good (especially for just having a major procedure) just noting that’s were you start to trail off which would indicate you might need either longer reps or less rest between shorter intervals.

I like 3 x 3 mins critical velocity 1 min float x 3.

I find doing anything less than 5 min reps works best at CV. I switch up the rep durations and rests every week from 3-10 mins.

Usually looks like 3,5,10,7 then repeat the process. Total working time is usually between 27-35 mins.

Mixing those in with a weekly tempo is what usually makes me feel the best.
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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1) Have you ever tried the 'Mona' fartlek workout? Named after Australian runner Steve Moneghetti.

2x90" on / 90" float
4x60" on / 60" float
4x30" on / 30" float
4x15" on / 15" float

Total 20 minutes, equal times "on" and "float." You can structure it a lot of different ways -- polarize and really hammer the ons at mile pace and do easy floats, or take the ons more controlled at 5k-10k effort and the floats at marathon effort or a little below. Either way, you can track your total distance in the 20 minutes and see if you can bump it up week after week.

If you want more work than 20 minutes, then you could take a rest after the Mona and do an evenly paced 20' run where you try to cover more distance than you did during the Mona block.

2) You could also run diagonals for 20-30' if you want to do a bit more low-key speedwork during a base period. Find a soccer field, run the diagonals hard and float the short edges. Repeat!
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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In all seriousness I think you are teaching folks here more than they can teach you. Your’re 52 with those credentials. Most everyone only hopes to be as good as you are today let alone get there when they are 52.

I’m 56, I’m close to those PB’s this year but not close enough in my mind. I’m coming off 2 30+ mile runs in the last 8 weeks one of them in the Grand Canyon. I’m taking two weeks off. My best week this year not including a 30 mile run, was 54 miles. I can’t recover on two hard runs and a long run. I do it with the same general make up as you but replace one of your quality days with a long warm up to a park. Take my shoes off and do a set of drills and then 10 to as high as 20 Corners. Running one corner across the soccer field to the opposite corner using the back line as the rest. Put my shoes back on a float home. So if it’s 50 miles that run totals 10miles. I find that run is hard enough to give me benefit but also regenerative because I do it barefoot on grass.

This might be a good alternative to your Monday. It’s a good break in the routine. I don’t advise anyone to run to the grass and take off their shoes. I would advise you, if you’ve never done it, ease into it with drills and 4 strides. Once your feet are strong you’ll want to do more of this not less. You can do this run with shoes on too! Nothing stopping that.

Just to clarify, I’m not minimalist and never was. Just the older you get the more you’ll understand why strong feet are essential.

Anyway, long answer but good on ya” Those are some impressive PB’s and impressive workouts.

Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Holy Moly Tom,

Last time I participated in these threads, you were post-CABG.
When I commented you would be back to being as strong as a horse,... but WOW!

So terrific to see you are doing so well.
And running faster than most athletes, including me!
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [SDJ] [ In reply to ]
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Both you and Jae are too kind. I really wasnt fishing for compliments... Just some ideas.

I've been trying to keep the intensity mostly tempo and lower, and build as much pace as I can without going into the well with speed work---Holding back 1600/3k/5k pace stuff until I plateau. That stuff has a limited life span,in heavy doses nefore it goes flat.

Recovery is what you make it, right? I never (well almost never) do something today that will prevent me from the plan for the next two days. I can still tell where that edge is pretty well. I might be able to squeeze one more mile rep in... But, I'll pay for it and may have to cut my long run short or skip the hills. So, maybe I do 5 mile reps, instead of the 6 planned...and then nail the long hilly run. I like to expend my excess recovery on the long hilly run if I'm still feeling frisky... Since the next day is my day off.

I completely agree regarding strength... Esp those little muscles in the feet, ankles and the various stabilizers. That's a big part of why I started the hard hilly run a couple years ago.
Barefoot diagonals also sounds interesting. As you say, it might be a good way to break up the week---or a lower key day while I work up to them when I'm not feeling it. TW made a similar recommendation, but with shoes.

Lots of great ideas from everyone here. Thanks.
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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Never heard of the Mona fartlek. But, I've always been a boring runner.

I like the idea of the additional 20' option. I just need to figure a good way to keep track of the distance during the fartlek portion.
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Not a fan of Progressive Runs. Usually ends up with the athlete doing most of the session in Zone 3, which is a zone I try to avoid. Minimal training benefit, but creates enough fatigue to require decent recovery.


Based on a 18m43s 5km, I would expect your Threshold pace to be around 6m30s/mi and your theoretical marathon pace at 6m50s/mi and easy run pace 7m45s to 8m30s/mi (reference Jack Daniels Running Formula).


I would look to keep all your 'tempo' efforts between 7m00s and 6m30s/mi. And your faster efforts (ie. 400m repeats) below 6m00s/mi (as fast as 5m30s/mi).


Avoid paces between 7m00s and 7m45s per mile. This pace range offers minimal training benefit, but still significant recovery. Therefore limiting how much 'real quality' you can do.


Your 8x5min, 15sec progressive to threshold example would mean (worse if you treat your threshold as 6m45s):
- 8m15s, 8m00s, 7m45s, 7m30s, 7m15s, 7m00s, 6m45s, 6m30s/mi
Why not skip straight to the 7m00s/mi effort after warmup. You could increase the effort durations. Or change to 7x5min, 5sec progression with a 60 to 120 sec recovery in between.


But like the other posters, I'd prefer to see you run tempo/threshold efforts. And add another session with faster efforts (200s, 400s, 800s). Both of these would be better than your progression runs.


Would also keep your long run aerobic (ie. 7m45s+/mi) and look to extend it to 2.5 hours. Don't believe you are actually running 'hard hills' during a 2 hour run. Add in a separate hill session (can alternate with the tempo and speed sessions) which can be hill repeats or Kenyan Hills. Climb I use for hill repeats is 600m @ 7.5% (5 to 6 repeats @ threshold HR).


Learn what 'hard' is. Keep the easy runs very 'easy'. Avoid that mushy middle.


For reference, I'm the same age, 20lbs heavier, do 2/3rds your run mileage, but I'm a little faster.


At our age their is a limit to how much quality training your body can absorb. So make it as 'high quality' as possible.
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
SnowChicken wrote:
Id either opt for hill repeats or 5k-10k paced stuff personally


Thanks.

Hill repeats are mixed into my Long Run. I wasn't very clear on that, sorry. I have a hilly section about 2.5 miles from home that's a little over a mile long with 4 hills. I run over, and do 3-6 passes through the hills, charging up the hills and recovering on the backside. Then extend the run out to 2 hours.

If you've got a favorite 5k/10k pace workout...let's have it. I like structure, and I like structured progressions. Eg, one I've done in the past:

wk1: Warm-up then 2 miles at 10k followed by a set of 3 x 800M at (15s faster than 10k) and 3 x 800M at 10k.
wk2: Warm-up then 3 miles at 10k followed by a set of 2 x 800M at (15s faster than 10k) and 2 x 800M at 10k.
wk3: Warm-up then 4 miles at 10k followed by a set of 1 x 800M at (15s faster than 10k) and 1 x 800M at 10k.
....
Repeat above dropping pace by 15s.



I would definitely be emphasizing some vo2 max work as you seem to be aerobically strong but could raise that ceiling a bit still. Some general rules of thumb for v02 max workouts are:

Rep Duration 2-6' or 800-1600
Pace: 3k-5k pace
Volume: 5000-10000 (but more often 6000-8000)
Rest: 50-90% of the time per rep.

If you want progress you can do something where you increase the rep length but keep pace, relative rest, and total volume similar such as:

6-10 x 800
5-10 x 1000
4-8 x 1200
3-6 x 1600

you can extend this out however you want. Maybe you do 6x800, 6x1000, 4x1200, 3x1600, 8x800, 8x1000, 6x1200, 5x1600. Good variety of rep length so you don't get too used to doing one thing but are accumulating a lot of time at vo2 max effort.

Adding an edit: My advice did not take into account age but just as general running advice. I am younger and don't know how or even if your body will react differently to this type of stimulus but you seem really fit so I would think it still applies
Last edited by: SnowChicken: Oct 21, 20 5:57
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Just calling it like I see it. 52 with those credentials is worth a nod at least.
I would agree for the most part I try not to do things that destroy me for the days to come. Those two 30+ mile runs on no preparation (I didn’t build up to 30 miles, I went from a 15 mile long run to 32 miles) did set me back a bit but doing both at the time was outstanding for the mind.

This thread is a a keeper. It’s full of really good ideas. Thanks for starting it.

Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [RobInOz] [ In reply to ]
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RobInOz wrote:
Based on a 18m43s 5km, I would expect your Threshold pace to be around 6m30s/mi and your theoretical marathon pace at 6m50s/mi and easy run pace 7m45s to 8m30s/mi (reference Jack Daniels Running Formula).

I would look to keep all your 'tempo' efforts between 7m00s and 6m30s/mi. And your faster efforts (ie. 400m repeats) below 6m00s/mi (as fast as 5m30s/mi).

But like the other posters, I'd prefer to see you run tempo/threshold efforts. And add another session with faster efforts (200s, 400s, 800s). Both of these would be better than your progression runs.

Would also keep your long run aerobic (ie. 7m45s+/mi) and look to extend it to 2.5 hours. Don't believe you are actually running 'hard hills' during a 2 hour run. Add in a separate hill session (can alternate with the tempo and speed sessions) which can be hill repeats or Kenyan Hills. Climb I use for hill repeats is 600m @ 7.5% (5 to 6 repeats @ threshold HR).

I'm not in sub-19 5k shape, right now. As noted, I'd put my threshold closer to 6:45, today. So, my paces are all about 15s slower than what you quote---otherwise in general alignment.

As for hills...I live in North Texas. There is not much in the way of 7.5% hills, 600m in length around here...even via car. What I do have, and use is a series of 4, 200m hills at 6%. Since they are shorter, HR doesn't reach steady state until the peak, which is usually 5-ish bpm below threshold. I do run these Kenyan style...more or less...at a steady pace climb/descend. I do 3-4 passes through these hills, early in my run, and then extend out to 2 hours after I'm done. I think that's roughly the same "volume" as your 5x600m hills...just shorter reps...12-16x200m. I work with what I've got.

I understand your point re z3. I generally use it as a transition between easy running periods, and more tempo/threshold/speed focused periods. Historically, I limited that to about 4 weeks. This year I've just been experimenting with how long improvements will continue while using that approach, before moving on to the "hard stuff".

Thanks for your insights.
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
As for hills...I live in North Texas. There is not much in the way of 7.5% hills, 600m in length around here...even via car. What I do have, and use is a series of 4, 200m hills at 6%. Since they are shorter, HR doesn't reach steady state until the peak, which is usually 5-ish bpm below threshold. I do run these Kenyan style...more or less...at a steady pace climb/descend. I do 3-4 passes through these hills, early in my run, and then extend out to 2 hours after I'm done. I think that's roughly the same "volume" as your 5x600m hills...just shorter reps...12-16x200m. I work with what I've got.
.

I'm in Melbourne, Australia and which is just coming out of COVID-19 lockdown. For about 10 weeks we were limited to a 5km Radius from our homes. Unfortunately there are no hills in my 5km Radius. The climb I mentioned earlier is just over 6km away.

Instead I found a footbridge over the Freeway. About a 90 secs climb each side (probably around 4 to 5%) with 30 secs of flat in the middle. I used this for a Kenyan Hills style session. Approaching threshold on the climbs and then maintaining the pace on the flat and downhill (obviously easier to maintain pace when not climbing). I started with a 20 min continuous effort (and built to 30 mins). My HR would climb into Zone 4 and then stay there. Obviously it rose and fell, but generally staying within zone 4. My last session doing this was 20 min Warmup, 30 min Hills, 20 min Cooldown.

This week they extended the Radius to 25km. So I went back to the 600m Hill @ 7.5%.
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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So... I'm trying to decide on when to change things up.

So far progress seems to be occurring at a good rate, and I'm reluctant to upset to Apple cart.... So to speak.

I haven't changed much from the outline above. Last weekend, I changed the hill workout from Kenyan hills to lydiard style hill bounding. That's it. Of course the hill bounding killed me... I only managed 2mi of it.... But, I extended to 16miles at Sub8 pace. So, I was happy with that.

Today's 13mi progression run was 20s/mi faster than 2 weeks ago, at the same HR... Including the 6x strides afterwards. I felt very strong, as if I'd left a lot in the tank even at the end of the run. Its hard to turn away from progress like that until it stops or slows down. Two weeks ago, I was shelled after 11.5 miles for the same run.

I was going to exchange the progression run next week for a Mona farletk style run... Now I'm second guessing that thought.

Thoughts?
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
So... I'm trying to decide on when to change things up.

So far progress seems to be occurring at a good rate, and I'm reluctant to upset to Apple cart.... So to speak.

I haven't changed much from the outline above. Last weekend, I changed the hill workout from Kenyan hills to lydiard style hill bounding. That's it. Of course the hill bounding killed me... I only managed 2mi of it.... But, I extended to 16miles at Sub8 pace. So, I was happy with that.

Today's 13mi progression run was 20s/mi faster than 2 weeks ago, at the same HR... Including the 6x strides afterwards. I felt very strong, as if I'd left a lot in the tank even at the end of the run. Its hard to turn away from progress like that until it stops or slows down. Two weeks ago, I was shelled after 11.5 miles for the same run.

I was going to exchange the progression run next week for a Mona farletk style run... Now I'm second guessing that thought.

Thoughts?

I like to work in 3 week blocks (followed by recovery week). At the moment I am running every day, every second day is an easy recovery run. So weeks will alternate between 3 recovery / 4 quality and 4 recovery / 3 quality sessions.

Typically 1 quality session is a long run, 2 are harder sessions and for weeks with a 4th quality I add in an aerobic run (70 to 80 mins). Therefore each 3 week block will typically contain 10 recovery runs, 6 hard sessions, 3 long runs and 2 aerobic runs.

So it is the 6 hard sessions I have to play with (over the 4 week block). What they are depends on my current condition, where I am in the program, what I feel I need to work on and finally the goal 'A' race.

At the moment, they are 2 hill sessions, 2 threshold/tempo sessions and 2 track workouts. But that will change from block to block.

In summary, I do not have a set 'week' of training. I mix up the training and the locations where I train.

Secondly, the sessions themselves are NOT the magic. Improvement comes from consistency and gradual overload. Don't stress over which training session you are doing.
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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No harm continuing with the same weekly workouts! You can totally keep them up until you're bored, what you're doing sounds like great base training. It's easy not to feel stale when you are improving a lot from workout to workout, and probably useful to wait to mix things up until the trend starts to flatten.

One thing to keep in mind as you're in a warm part of the country and cooler air has only recently arrived (albeit in somewhat dramatic fashion!): there is sometimes a "fall transition" I see in my training where I quickly appear to get much fitter or can run faster at the same heart rate due to the weather. This is great and fun, but not sustained. It's sort of a "harvest" of summer training that happens quickly. Your improvements sound great, but do keep in mind that part of them (especially if you are looking at heart rate as a metric) might be associated with weather shifts, and don't get frustrated if your progress now plateaus for a bit.
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Re: Running: Alternatives for my Weekly progressive run? [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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twcronin wrote:
No harm continuing with the same weekly workouts! You can totally keep them up until you're bored, what you're doing sounds like great base training. It's easy not to feel stale when you are improving a lot from workout to workout, and probably useful to wait to mix things up until the trend starts to flatten.

One thing to keep in mind as you're in a warm part of the country and cooler air has only recently arrived (albeit in somewhat dramatic fashion!): there is sometimes a "fall transition" I see in my training where I quickly appear to get much fitter or can run faster at the same heart rate due to the weather. This is great and fun, but not sustained. It's sort of a "harvest" of summer training that happens quickly. Your improvements sound great, but do keep in mind that part of them (especially if you are looking at heart rate as a metric) might be associated with weather shifts, and don't get frustrated if your progress now plateaus for a bit.

My primary metrics are Pace and RPE...eg, how do I feel at the end of 3x2mi at a set pace? If I feel shelled, that's one thing (if I have to stop and walk, it was probably a bit much)...if I feel "tired, but ok" at the same pace...that's better. But, I certainly look at HR, also---And compare weather conditions between sessions.

I'm aware of the fall harvest syndrome---you can't train here and be oblivious too it...spring is the payback for it, too. This week has actually been quite a bit warmer than the last few---so, I was kind of expecting a slow-down or higher than normal HR and/or RPE, yesterday (3x2mi Tempo) because of it. But, that didn't happen...HR / RPE were both normal. Where I am now is significantly ahead of where I was this time last year on sub-threshold paces, pace/hr, and total weekly volume. I'm also ahead on all those stats even compared with my peak-fitness from early January of this year---before things started to deteriorate leading up to surgery.

I appreciate Rob's points, too. Mentally, I know its not "really" about the workout(s). I could probably do almost anything in that 13mi run with 40min of sub-threshold work, and see the same thing---but, there is a "mental toughness" aspect to inching up another gear every 5 minutes without any rest, though...especially those last couple of gears approaching threshold. But, its hard to change things up when whatever I'm doing is "working"---it becomes (almost?) superstitious. You know?

Every 4-5 weeks I'll see things flatten for a couple weeks in a row---which makes me go "hmmmm..." Then the next week, blamm-o---and, its back to "oh wow, ok...it IS working, don't mess with it." I know at some point things will stagnate and I'll need to change it up, again.
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