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Re: SILCA Secret Chain Lube Instruction UPDATE [Insilvis] [ In reply to ]
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I am curious of Josh's comments on this question though this is my take.


The Zero Friction trial was on a plain clean chain no prior waxing. It was simply a test of the drip lube only and alone. If you have waxed your chain first then this may complicate things a bit because the drip lube will bead on the waxed surface. The wax is hydrophobic and the drip wax solution (as I assume uses alcohol(s)) is hydrophilic so then the drip may not be able to cause the wax previously applied to dissolve and allow the new stuff to get into the pins etc (ie the small spaces). That is what I have seemed to see in my trial. The other thing I am curious about is with the SSCL drip approach does the tungsten disulfide (WS2) actually bond to the metal because that is one aspect of the dry application of WS2 in industrial settings. Once you add it to the solution in SSCL does it still bond?
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Re: SILCA Secret Chain Lube Instruction UPDATE [Insilvis] [ In reply to ]
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Insilvis, you can definitely hot wax and then use SSCL to 'top off' that wax every few hundred miles.. the best results we've seen in our testing come from doing a hot melt SILCA wax every 1000 miles with SSCL topping off every 200 miles or so. We have test chains at 20,000 miles that are nowhere close to the 0.5% stretch limit.

You can also use straight SSCL and replenish every 200 miles or so with ~90% the same results.

G Belson and weiwentg, yes, the low viscosity is how it manages to actually penetrate the rollers and links down to the pin.. if you read Adam's reviews of Squirt and Smoke, he goes into a lot of detail about how their high viscosity really keeps them from getting in there which necessitates immersion and warming the lube or the chain while you do it.. Also, we updated our application method pretty early in the production phase of the product which you can see around 7-8 minute mark in this video:

The new method for application is to cross-chain and then apply to the rollers right as the chain is about to contact the cassette cog..at this moment, the inner and outer links take some angle to each other opening up a slightly larger gap for the lube to penetrate into, and then the action of the links bending about the cassette and pulleys really seems to help work the lube down into the spaces we really want it.

http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
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Re: SILCA Secret Chain Lube Instruction UPDATE [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
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joshatsilca wrote:
Insilvis, you can definitely hot wax and then use SSCL to 'top off' that wax every few hundred miles.. the best results we've seen in our testing come from doing a hot melt SILCA wax every 1000 miles with SSCL topping off every 200 miles or so. We have test chains at 20,000 miles that are nowhere close to the 0.5% stretch limit.

You can also use straight SSCL and replenish every 200 miles or so with ~90% the same results.
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Josh, while we have you here, I'm wondering if there are any issues with mixing SSCL with the wax. In particular, I think you have said that SSCL has some slack wax, which I know has some oil. It seems like we should degrease a chain which has has SSCL before putting it into the wax pot. Is that correct?

In contrast, I know that with MSW, you only really need to clean the chain if you've had a ride in the wet, and their protocol says boiling water is sufficient for that.
Last edited by: weiwentg: Oct 29, 20 8:02
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Re: SILCA Secret Chain Lube Instruction UPDATE [weiwentg] [ In reply to ]
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So the drip wax will penetrate into a hot waxed chain especially if you are doing the cross-chain style application. The liquid really doesn't want to sit on the hot melt wax on the outside of the chain, but it definitely does want to wick its way down into the places it needs to go if there is a crevice for it to do so. We've had a lot of people a bit freaked out by how much it wants to drip off of the outer surfaces of the chain (as Adam also mentions in the review) but as he also found, it really does get in there better than you might think!

As for 'bonding' to the surface, it really more impinges the surface and finds its way into the nooks and crannies of the metal.. the effects are long last until it is exposed to water and friction combined which oxidize it and also help sweep it from the texture of the metal. Similarly, when spray applied as a dry film, the effects are not permanent and the durability varies widely depending on environmental conditions and exposure. But, as I said above, if you keep wax in there and keep moisture out, a chain can last nearly indefinitely as the wear surfaces essentially become a constantly replenished coating of these little WS2 platelets.

weiwentg the slack wax is really just a mix of paraffin powder and paraffin oil.. it's the precursor from which you would make both products. I think of this as similar to making ice cream.. rather than use whole milk you use skim milk and milk fat so that you can get the proportions just right.. in our case, the dry, powdered paraffin has the consistency of powdered sugar and doesn't want to adhere to itself unless you get it hot.. so if we put some in water and made an emulsion and then let the water evaporate, you would get powder again as it has no real affinity to itself. The bit of oil in there makes it want to stick to itself after it is dry. If you've ever bought paraffin for canning you would find that it is slightly pliable.. this is because it still has some of the oil in there (as much as 10% oil).. whereas the 99.5% laboratory grade paraffin feels like concrete.

http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
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Re: SILCA Secret Chain Lube Instruction UPDATE [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
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Josh it must be fun to be able to do all the trial and testing you do (though I am sure there are frustrations) that we can not do out here in the wild. The wealth of knowledge you have gained from trials and that you freely share on the forum like this is much appreciated. I found myself being drawn into the rabbit hole this week while thinking this stuff over and looking into info on WS2. But my frugality got the better of my geeking out to slow down the slide into the proverbial wonderland. Both you and Adam are great resources to touch on for info and are so freely willing to help out in an honest way. That is refreshing these days. Thanks for the great products and please stop coming up with so many cool things, that I want so much more than I need, I may have to start a separate bank account and my second job, just for Silca stuff..... :-)
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Re: SILCA Secret Chain Lube Instruction UPDATE [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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Fwiw, MoS2 bonds quite well to steel ( buddy worked in a molybdenum mine, every steel surface was covered with it). How well it bonds to a treated or coated steel surface I don't know. There is also the possibility that it ones so well that the wax doesn't.

MoS2 is excellent for using in vacuum, but doesn't do well in humidity.

Haven't been able to find much info about WS2, but I expect its properties to be similar. Don't have any info about the humidity behavior.
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Re: SILCA Secret Chain Lube Instruction UPDATE [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
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I am re-reading my question, and it came out totally garbled. This is what I meant: if I’ve used Silca’s drip lube on a chain, do I need to fully degrease it before I put it in a pot of Silca’s wax?
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Re: SILCA Secret Chain Lube Instruction UPDATE [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
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joshatsilca wrote:
You can also use straight SSCL and replenish every 200 miles or so with ~90% the same results.

Hi Josh,

Love the product. I applied the lube to a new chain (did not strip / dip) and am on the 'replenish every 200 miles or so' train. I've searched for this but can't find the answer, do I need to wipe down the chain prior to reapplication? If so, I know you recommend your gear wipes, but would any old (clean) shop towel do? If the idea is to clear the chain of any large pieces of debris etc.
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Re: SILCA Secret Chain Lube Instruction UPDATE [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
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So I thoroughly cleaned the chains on both my road bikes and my trainer bike. Apples ans let dry overnight. Ive been a rock n roll gold user for years. Have gotten a lot of miles out of all my chains using it and was pretty happy.
First ride tonight on my trainer and I can say the chain is noticeably more quiet and smooth.

Is it worth using it on my mountain bikes? I’m a fair weather roadie so my chains never get wet on those bikes. Does this stuff work good and hold up off road or should I stick with r n r?
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