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Re: High HR when running [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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SnappingT wrote:
A structured program Involving a lot of meditation and integrated “brain training drills” tailored to endurance athletes.

I don't believe you
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
Thanks for all of your replies. I think I will continue to monitor HR but not get too obsessed with it. As many of you stated I am new to running and still consider a 15-mile week very good! I will build this up to 20/25/30 etc and I'm sure things will continue to improve hopefully.

I did a 10k race yesterday, and finished in 62 minutes which I'm really happy with. I went all out: Heart Rate was pretty much 170 for nearly an hour.

First: Tom Hampton's advice here in general about consistency and running by feel is great.

Second: I'm a little confused about your levels of exertion and I suspect that your "relaxed" running is way too fast. You ran 10:00/mile pace for a 10k race, at average HR 170 bpm. The earlier 5-mile "relaxed" training run you did was at 10:50/mile at average heart rate 169 bpm. "Relaxed"/everyday running and 10k pace should not be less than 10% apart in speed and negligibly different in heart rate! So either you left a lot on the table in the race (fine if you did, you're new to this) or your normal everyday runs are way too fast.

A few self-monitoring questions: Was that "relaxed" run conversational pace -- could you have carried on a chat while you were running? If that's hard to assess, you can also monitor pace by breathing: if you are truly running VERY easy, then you should be able to breathe just through your nose with your mouth mostly closed. How hard did your 10k pace feel -- was that at the limit of what you could do for an hour or were you holding something back? Were you breathing about once every four footfalls during the 10k or less frequently than that?

I'm an experienced runner and my everyday runs are between 30-40% slower than my 10k race pace; this is typical. I think you should try slowing down to 12-13 minute miles on your easy days and see if that helps you run more and improve your speed at a given heart rate. You'll get faster if you do this and increase your mileage and number of weekly runs. Consistency is king as Tom says, and you're not going to get to a habit of near-daily running if your normal pace is so close to 10k exertion -- not just because this is metabolically taxing but also because running daily mileage so close to race pace has a good chance of getting you injured from impact forces.
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Re: High HR when running [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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twcronin wrote:
Second: I'm a little confused about your levels of exertion and I suspect that your "relaxed" running is way too fast. You ran 10:00/mile pace for a 10k race, at average HR 170 bpm. The earlier 5-mile "relaxed" training run you did was at 10:50/mile at average heart rate 169 bpm.

I'm an experienced runner and my everyday runs are between 30-40% slower than my 10k race pace; this is typical. I think you should try slowing down to 12-13 minute miles on your easy days and see if that helps you run more and improve your speed at a given heart rate.

That's a good catch, I stuck on the 150bpm from the OP.

Like TW, I also run my easy runs about 30%-40% slower than my 10k pace. Also, from a HR point of view...that's about 20-30 bpm below 10K HR, steady state. I know I suggested ignoring HR...so, I'm being a bit contradictory. But, as TW points out your 10k race was 1-2 bpm higher than your "easy run", and only 50s slower. Both metrics point to running too fast day to day.
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
SnappingT wrote:
A structured program Involving a lot of meditation and integrated “brain training drills” tailored to endurance athletes.


I don't believe you

You should.

But, perhaps you don't know SnappingT is Tim Floyd of Magnolia Masters. He's a well-known and respected coach in both Swimming and Triathlon. A number of pro-athletes work with him on a regular basis. Sometimes, his methods can be perceived as a bit unothodox...but, if he tells you he's had success with an approach, you'd be wise to pay attention and learn what you can from it.

I have direct personal experience with techniques for controlling autonomic processes through mental techniques. In the 1980's (as a teenager) I had a series of bad migraines---mostly the loss-of-vision types, but a few painful ones, as well. My parents (in consultation with a neurologist) send me to a psychologist to work on biofeedback for learning to "relax". This mostly involved being connected to a machine that made tones that corresponded to my HR and BP. It took a few months of weekly office visits and at-home practice sessions to be able to manipulate my HR/BP. But, I was eventually able to lower my resting HR by about 30bpm...I don't recall the delta-BP.

In the 4 decades since, I have NEVER had another single migraine.

So, its well documented that mental techniques can manipulate autonomic processes like HR and BP. Its not unreasonable to think that might eventually lead to improved performance for the right athlete...but, not a slam dunk either.
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
Why don't you think those numbers are not real?

Because pegging to about 170 is exactly what HRMs do when they misbehave. Too much of a coincidence.

It is easy to check. Get your pulse and see if it matches the HRM.
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Re: High HR when running [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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I would absolutely agree with you if this was wrist-based optical and would attribute it to cadence-locking, but are chest straps really susceptible to cadence-locking as well?
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Re: High HR when running [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
Tom_hampton wrote:
Why don't you think those numbers are not real?


Because pegging to about 170 is exactly what HRMs do when they misbehave. Too much of a coincidence.

It is easy to check. Get your pulse and see if it matches the HRM.


He also gave a chart from a separate run:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=7347582#p7347582

Looking the "race" tabular data, its not "pegged". Each interval fluctuates from the previous, and the maxes are different than the interval by a few bpm.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Oct 21, 20 11:21
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Re: High HR when running [ In reply to ]
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Hey,

Still monitoring the heart rate and sticking to easy runs as much as I can.

Today, I did:

1x 1mile
3 minute walk
1x 1 mile
3 minute walk

My average HR was 136 and my highest was 152.

Despite this I still had a negative performance score of -4. Yesterday I avoided running and did a 5 mile walk instead, just to keep moving.

Bit confusing
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
Hey,

Still monitoring the heart rate and sticking to easy runs as much as I can.

Today, I did:

1x 1mile
3 minute walk
1x 1 mile
3 minute walk

My average HR was 136 and my highest was 152.

Despite this I still had a negative performance score of -4.
Yesterday I avoided running and did a 5 mile walk instead, just to keep moving.

Bit confusing

ignore that crap. Its mostly meaningless. Its of ZERO value for you.
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
ignore that crap. Its mostly meaningless. Its of ZERO value for you.

Thanks Tom

Although I'm posting about it, it is more because it can be quite demoralising. Particularly as an amateur/fairly weak runner to be trotting along, feel your arm vibrate and then be told basically "You're doing shit" haha
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Re: High HR when running [redrabbit] [ In reply to ]
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redrabbit wrote:
Tom_hampton wrote:

ignore that crap. Its mostly meaningless. Its of ZERO value for you.


Thanks Tom

Although I'm posting about it, it is more because it can be quite demoralising. Particularly as an amateur/fairly weak runner to be trotting along, feel your arm vibrate and then be told basically "You're doing shit" haha

I get it. But, I can't turn it off. All I can do is tell you to ignore it. Those metrics will have some limited value when you can run an hour straight every day. But, by then it won't matter anyway...because you'll already know.

Just get out the door every day and do something. It will eventually pay off. The slower you can run, the more often you can run, the longer you can run, the less you can take walk breaks while feeling comfortable, the better you will be. Trust the process...not the stupid watch.
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Re: High HR when running [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
Just get out the door every day and do something. It will eventually pay off. The slower you can run, the more often you can run, the longer you can run, the less you can take walk breaks while feeling comfortable, the better you will be. Trust the process...not the stupid watch.

Thanks again, that sounds like excellent advice.

Just also to say I am really enjoying running btw. I love metrics and looking at stats (why I bought the garmin + HR strap). I won't get too obsessed with it and I will just continue to enjoy being outside and exercising.

Thanks again! :-)
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