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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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My original understanding was always H3+ on flat low yaw rides, and Jet+ 90 for higher yaw rides, and arguably for hillier rides too.

I didn't want to buy the H3+ ONLY for looks :p
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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in general you wanted a wide, wide fork.
I had an mdt/argos steel one made for my p3sl back in the day ("for" a 3spoke)

*not mine, but same fork.

It worked well in my testing (better than my jet9 of the time)
Later on my speed concept the Jet9 was always faster.
just my experience.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [dfquigley] [ In reply to ]
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dfquigley wrote:
So what everyone seems to be saying, is to ride me H3+ for show, but ride my Jet 9+ for dough :p

No, not really. Personally, I’ve gone the 90 route and I prefer a 60 or H3+. It would certainly depend on conditions and the route, but I’m convinced that the minimal speed gains in going to a 90 are outweighed by the potentially worse handling of the 90 (but I live in Texas where wind is prevalent). But if you bike in perfect conditions or are very comfortable in cross winds etc, go for the 90.
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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This topic keeps coming up, I think probably because it is very hard to definitively test this so you see lots of conflicting info out there. Complicating testing are four things:
(1) All good wheels are close -- at low yaw we are talking a few watts in the extreme cases
(2) the answer depends on the amount of power used to rotate the wheel, which is less for a good trispoke vs a regular spoked wheel. Wind tunnel tests that ignore this factor (i.e., all wind tunnel tests to date) don't tell the whole story
(3) the answer depends critically on what tire you mate with each wheel
(4) the answer may also vary a bit by bike frame/fork (not sure on this one but it would explain some of the variation in testing results)

What I know from my own careful testing: on my frame (Trek SpeedConcept) and with the older version Conti GPSS 20mm, which was narrower than the current version, the H3 is a good deal faster than the H3+ or any of the deep wheels (e.g. Jet6+ or Jet9+) in low yaw conditions. It is really surprising but I consistently get the same result. Note that the H3 is heavy, and it does not stall like a Jet9+ in a heavy crosswind, so sometimes a Jet9+ might be faster like in a hill climb TT or maybe in a strong crosswind. Also, I have a stash of the old tires and I haven't tested thoroughly with the new ones, so I'm not sure the same holds true for the new tires.
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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"I have a stash of the old tires"

19mm Bonty Aerowings? If so, want to sell any? I have one, but it's starting to get long in the tooth.

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [Sparks] [ In reply to ]
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Sparks wrote:
"I have a stash of the old tires"

19mm Bonty Aerowings? If so, want to sell any? I have one, but it's starting to get long in the tooth.
The ones I use are the older Continental GP Supersonic -- would have to look up the year but I think the main change was like 2015. They are labeled 20mm but they measure really narrow and are as good as anything in CRR too. With the narrow H3 they are blazing fast. Anyway, I still have about five and no way I'm selling them!
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
dfquigley wrote:
So what everyone seems to be saying, is to ride me H3+ for show, but ride my Jet 9+ for dough :p


No, not really. Personally, I’ve gone the 90 route and I prefer a 60 or H3+. It would certainly depend on conditions and the route, but I’m convinced that the minimal speed gains in going to a 90 are outweighed by the potentially worse handling of the 90 (but I live in Texas where wind is prevalent). But if you bike in perfect conditions or are very comfortable in cross winds etc, go for the 90.

A few years back I used to ride a H3+ because I preferred the handling compared with a Jet9+ (both with 23mm Corsa Speeds). It was slower than the J9+ in the field testing and velodrome testing that we did (bikes used were a Cervelo P4 & Trek Speedconcept), only by a tiny bit. I did eventually switch to using the J9+ for pretty much everything though and the H3+ went to a team mate. Subsequent/more recent wind tunnel testing that we did also put it as slower than a J9+ in a Cervelo P5, but really it's not a lot so depends on your handling preferences.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Hows the team mate doing?
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Would the presumption be correct then, that a Hed 3+ would most likely outperform 60 mm front rims? At least 60 mm rims are versatile, and I could use them on my road bike on most conditions. 90 mm would be a bigger ask.
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Would the presumption be correct then, that a Hed 3+ would most likely outperform 60 mm front rims? At least 60 mm rims are versatile, and I could use them on my road bike on most conditions. 90 mm would be a bigger ask.

It really depends on what the exact wheel is, "60mm" doesn't really tell you much about the wheels performance. For example there's a night and day difference between a Corima MCC ~60mm wheel and a Specalized Roval CLX 64, and the H3+ wouldn't be much faster than the Roval, if it was faster at all depending on your tyre preference (Rovals can absorb wider tyres than the H3+, aerodynamically speaking).

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:
Hows the team mate doing?

He's moved flat but settled into a new job recently so pretty well I think.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
echappist wrote:
Would the presumption be correct then, that a Hed 3+ would most likely outperform 60 mm front rims? At least 60 mm rims are versatile, and I could use them on my road bike on most conditions. 90 mm would be a bigger ask.


It really depends on what the exact wheel is, "60mm" doesn't really tell you much about the wheels performance. For example there's a night and day difference between a Corima MCC ~60mm wheel and a Specalized Roval CLX 64, and the H3+ wouldn't be much faster than the Roval, if it was faster at all depending on your tyre preference (Rovals can absorb wider tyres than the H3+, aerodynamically speaking).

Thanks for addressing this. I currently have Stinger 6 front but would be interested in getting the CLX 64.
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
dfquigley wrote:
So what everyone seems to be saying, is to ride me H3+ for show, but ride my Jet 9+ for dough :p


No, not really. Personally, I’ve gone the 90 route and I prefer a 60 or H3+. It would certainly depend on conditions and the route, but I’m convinced that the minimal speed gains in going to a 90 are outweighed by the potentially worse handling of the 90 (but I live in Texas where wind is prevalent). But if you bike in perfect conditions or are very comfortable in cross winds etc, go for the 90.


A few years back I used to ride a H3+ because I preferred the handling compared with a Jet9+ (both with 23mm Corsa Speeds). It was slower than the J9+ in the field testing and velodrome testing that we did (bikes used were a Cervelo P4 & Trek Speedconcept), only by a tiny bit. I did eventually switch to using the J9+ for pretty much everything though and the H3+ went to a team mate. Subsequent/more recent wind tunnel testing that we did also put it as slower than a J9+ in a Cervelo P5, but really it's not a lot so depends on your handling preferences.

This is a bit what I was afraid of. I have had a Jet 9+ for a couple years that I LOVED ( admittedly the first time I used it, it was SUPER windy with a lot of gusting, and my core has never been more sore after a ride )

I broke it on a downhill somehow, and got crash replacement through HED, so the new one hasn't seen much use.

At my last Half Iron I was able to pick up an H3+ for a SMOKING deal that I'd been eyeing up listed on sale for months that had just been reduced by the seller.

I grabbed it, even to just be something different, cool, or have a backup if my new Jet 9+ blows up on me.

A lot of people seemed to think that the H3+ was faster in flat low yaw conditions, but it might be more novelty at the local time trials, and coolness factor I've bought if the Jet 9+ which I can handle just fine in all wind conditions is basically always faster :p
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Do you think that the move to disc brake bikes will prompt a three spoke revival as it removes the larger hub and increased spoke count issue. I notice Revolver note a smaller difference in aero cost for their new three spoke between the disc to rim brake versions, used to great effect by Joe Skipper on his amazing 12hr ride (though of hours Joe would still fly with an Open pro up front).

I am guessing Pro three spoke Hayley has rocked in the past is not a million miles off some of the quicker deep section wheels.
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
While doing some amateur data sleuthing, it occurred to me that performance of the H3 is comparable to that of 60 mm deep wheels at low yaw, and that the H3 is actually somewhat worse at higher yaw.

So naturally, under what sort of conditions does the H3 excel?

Personally, I race at ~28 mph on flat grounds on my TT bike (20-30 min TTs). Even though this is generally considered lower yaw territory, I'm wondering if I would be better off on a 60 mm. Or am I neglecting certain things in my consideration? Somehow recall that a trispoke is advantageous as it has lower power required to spin; how much lower, I don't recall.

Did the ST hive mind reach a consensus on this? From what I can tell:
  • H3 is better at low yaw, and is dependent on using a narrow tire with low RR
  • Jet 60 and/or 90 are better at high(er) yaw, and work better with the trend toward wider tires

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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [geetee] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty much what you summarized

That said, I am getting a set of Bontrager Aeolus XXX 6 wheels for the windier days or courses with climbs.
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Did HED discontinue the GT3 and H3 wheels? I'm not seeing them on their site, but then I might not be looking hard enough.

My YouTubes

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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
Did HED discontinue the GT3 and H3 wheels? I'm not seeing them on their site, but then I might not be looking hard enough.
I think they did. If you want the GT3, I think competitive cyclist may have an odd one left.

Also discontinued rim brake rear disc as well. Still a disc brake disc though (in the Vanquish line). Higher end stuff is also exclusively disc brake these days.

Hell, I may be tempted to sell mine (H3 Plus) if someone offers me a good enough price. Aeolus 6 is certainly a lot more versatile, and I look like less of a d*****-bag if I were seen cruising on one just for kicks.
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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https://store.hedcycling.com/jet-rc-black-series/


Looks like they still have the Jet Disc rim brake on their site.
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Hell, I may be tempted to sell mine (H3 Plus) if someone offers me a good enough price. Aeolus 6 is certainly a lot more versatile, and I look like less of a d*****-bag if I were seen cruising on one just for kicks.


I don't sweat that. When I take out my Da it's almost in full race trim (only a taillight and speed sensor added) and I wear my aerohead. I bought the equipment to use it not to collect dust and the lid gives me better vision and comfort. Anyhow, that's the justification, not that I need it as I enjoy riding the bike and don't notice if people are jeering.

Photo for reference:



My YouTubes

Last edited by: LAI: Sep 3, 20 3:10
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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They sure did, I contacted them asking and it’s no more. I’ve been looking for one for about a year now, on eBay seems like the fronts are gone in minutes.
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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [mike s] [ In reply to ]
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Damn, that's a shame. Seems like the GT3 is about as fast as it gets for wheels....if you roll at the pointy end.

My YouTubes

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Re: When should one use a trispoke front in lieu of a 60 or 90 mm front [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
echappist wrote:
Hell, I may be tempted to sell mine (H3 Plus) if someone offers me a good enough price. Aeolus 6 is certainly a lot more versatile, and I look like less of a d*****-bag if I were seen cruising on one just for kicks.


I don't sweat that. When I take out my Da it's almost in full race trim (only a taillight and speed sensor added) and I wear my aerohead. I bought the equipment to use it not to collect dust and the lid gives me better vision and comfort. Anyhow, that's the justification, not that I need it as I enjoy riding the bike and don't notice if people are jeering.

Photo for reference:


Nice wheels :)

I do need to clarify things a bit, which is that I also did it on my road bike (Felt AR2). The 11-speed clincher wheelset I was using had nipples pulling through the rims; so those were out. I couldn't be arsed to glue tubulars, so the Stingers were out. All that was left was my H3+ /Jet+ disc combo and a front wheel whose rim developed a slight dent (so there's a thump/thump sound when I brake).

The Jet+ was the only 11-speed rear clincher I had in my disposal, and I thought, in for a nickel, in for a dime, might as well go for the full thing.
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