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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [nversteege] [ In reply to ]
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I also had to choose between zephyr and the Titan. But I choose for the zephyr because it is more al round. And a 10cm front with cross winds is hard to handle sometimes. (I have a 9cm stealth wheelset but it is not easy to handle with wind force 4 and above)

Follow my project on Project 100 miles / 4 hours
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [rbe] [ In reply to ]
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rbe wrote:
I also had to choose between zephyr and the Titan. But I choose for the zephyr because it is more al round. And a 10cm front with cross winds is hard to handle sometimes. (I have a 9cm stealth wheelset but it is not easy to handle with wind force 4 and above)

Rbe makes a good pitch for the ZEPHYR - it’s more stable than the TITAN and does allow you to run different tyres with different widths and not worry too much.

One way of looking at it is that if you’re happy to run Vittoria Corsa Speeds because you just want to go as fast as physically possible then choose the TITAN, but if you want to run a slightly different tyre (maybe a GP5000 TL) then the ZEPHYR will be a better choice. A 25mm tyre will slow down the TITAN and make the ZEPHYR a faster wheel, you have to run a 23 on the TITAN. I do TTs of varying lengths and have been using a TITAN w/Vittoria Corsa Speed all year though, handling wise it’s very stable indeed - more so than its depth would suggest.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Okay, so according to the graphs on the website the difference between the wheels is about 2.8 watts. I assume the potential benefits of a TITAN will be higher, the higher the speeds are? Since it is better at lower yaw angles. I'm just trying to see if it's worth the extra money for me, riding at 45km/h speeds for 20 min time trials (hopefully .. adding a disc and good front wheel will boost that a bit).
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [nversteege] [ In reply to ]
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nversteege wrote:
Okay, so according to the graphs on the website the difference between the wheels is about 2.8 watts. I assume the potential benefits of a TITAN will be higher, the higher the speeds are? Since it is better at lower yaw angles. I'm just trying to see if it's worth the extra money for me, riding at 45km/h speeds for 20 min time trials (hopefully .. adding a disc and good front wheel will boost that a bit).

Yes that's right - 2.8w at 45kph when using a 23mm Vittoria Corsa Speed. Let's say you scale that up to 50kph - it will then be >4w as you'll experience lower yaw angles as well as the increased wattage savings at higher speeds. You get more from the front wheel than the rear - on our disc data page you can see there's a 2w swing between the discs at 45kph but there's much more from front wheels.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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I believe the ultra disc comes in disc brake option with extralite ultrahubs. Can they be swapped for something like carbon ti?
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Also, and this is of utmost importance ... how does the disc wheel sound? Whompy? 😬😂

@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Rocket_racing wrote:
I believe the ultra disc comes in disc brake option with extralite ultrahubs. Can they be swapped for something like carbon ti?

Ultra discs we just build on Extralite hubs - Carbon Ti are heavier than Extralite so would put them over 1000g

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [TLT] [ In reply to ]
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TLT wrote:
Also, and this is of utmost importance ... how does the disc wheel sound? Whompy? 😬😂

Aha! They do make a cool noise - it's different from something like a solid disc but people will know about it when you overtake them ;)

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Xavier, awesome new offering of wheels from Aerocoach!

I have a question regarding the aerodynamics of the rim brake vs the disc brake versions of the Titan and Zephyr wheels.

If I understand the specifications correctly a significant part of the aerodynamic benefits from the AEOX wheels compared to other brands come from the narrow, high-flange hubs, am I right?

You mention that the disc brake versions come with straight pull hubs, which I assume need to be of a standard width to be able to cope with the added torsional forces resulting from disc brakes.. Do you have any data as to how that negatively impacts the overall aerodynamics of the wheel, and how they compare to the competition then?

Kristoffer

"Ride smarter, not harder" -me ;)
Last edited by: Vistinator: Nov 14, 19 1:56
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Vistinator] [ In reply to ]
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Vistinator wrote:
Hi Xavier, awesome new offering of wheels from Aerocoach!

I have a question regarding the aerodynamics of the rim brake vs the disc brake versions of the Titan and Zephyr wheels.

If I understand the specifications correctly a significant part of the aerodynamic benefits from the AEOX wheels compared to other brands come from the narrow, high-flange hubs, am I right?

You mention that the disc brake versions come with straight pull hubs, which I assume need to be of a standard width to be able to cope with the added torsional forces resulting from disc brakes.. Do you have any data as to how that negatively impacts the overall aerodynamics of the wheel, and how they compare to the competition then?

Kristoffer

Hi Kristoffer - it's a good question, but something that needs to be considered in the bike as an entire system.

The disc brake hubs don't have the same flanges that you get on the rim brake hubs - but the flange location is pulled in on the non drive (disc) side to accommodate the disc anyway, so you've only really got the drive side spokes that are slightly outwards. In terms of what this does overall will depend on the frame and fork that you're using - so if you have a well designed disc brake frame then it'll be faster than a badly designed rim brake frame, regardless of any slightly differences in wheels. We don't do wheel only testing when presenting data so don't have a wheel only comparison between rim and disc brake. The hub isn't the only drag reducing factor with an AEOX wheel (overall rim shape, tyre interaction at the brake track, hidden valve are the other main ones) so swapping to a disc hub doesn't kill the wheels, so as to speak.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Any plan to offer a ~60mm wheel. Your designs are quite slick, love what you did with the valve. Question: in development did you guys strictly optimize around aero or did you take into consideration the center of pressure and how it changes across yaws?
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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What is the stability of the Zephyr like as a front wheel? I didn't realise quite how deep it is and thought it was a 60, and as im looking to buy my first set of deep wheels I'm unsure about handling. I know I have a bit of a learning curve with sidewinds etc; as an heavier rider im hoping it wont be too bad, but living in Wales im almost guaranteed windy conditions! I'd like to go Zephyr/Disc, just a little hesitant with the extra depth on the front.

@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [TLT] [ In reply to ]
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I am not sure which front you are talking about 75 or 100mm. Too deep wheel can ruin a race, so use some caution. Probably the best combo is get the 100 front and shop around for a used Jet 5+ (maybe $250 max). Calm day 100. Crappy day 50mm.
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Its the 75 I was considering on the front... I think its the Titan wheel which is the 100mm, and I defo wrote that one off as an option lol!

@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [TLT] [ In reply to ]
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TLT wrote:
What is the stability of the Zephyr like as a front wheel? I didn't realise quite how deep it is and thought it was a 60, and as im looking to buy my first set of deep wheels I'm unsure about handling. I know I have a bit of a learning curve with sidewinds etc; as an heavier rider im hoping it wont be too bad, but living in Wales im almost guaranteed windy conditions! I'd like to go Zephyr/Disc, just a little hesitant with the extra depth on the front.


The zephyr wheels are good in windy conditions. The stiffness feels ok. I have a other 90mm wheelset that is much more wind affected and I am a 6ft3 rider.
Used it only once yet du the winter.


Follow my project on Project 100 miles / 4 hours
Last edited by: rbe: Jan 25, 20 2:04
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [rbe] [ In reply to ]
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rbe wrote:
TLT wrote:
What is the stability of the Zephyr like as a front wheel? I didn't realise quite how deep it is and thought it was a 60, and as im looking to buy my first set of deep wheels I'm unsure about handling. I know I have a bit of a learning curve with sidewinds etc; as an heavier rider im hoping it wont be too bad, but living in Wales im almost guaranteed windy conditions! I'd like to go Zephyr/Disc, just a little hesitant with the extra depth on the front.


The zephyr wheels are good in windy conditions. The stiffness feels ok. I have a other 90mm wheelset that is much more wind affected and I am a 6ft3 rider.
Used it only once yet du the winter.

Thats good to hear! I ended up pulling the trigger on the Zephyr/Aeox Disc combo and I've just been waiting on them to be built, should hopefully be next month... then i can finally have my tri bike put together! Their Black Friday deal was too good not to take the chance on them. They look lovely on that Felt so hopefully they look just as good on my PR5!

@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
If anyone's got any further questions feel free to ask - there's quite a bit of data but didn't want to go overloading the website with too many graphs. We also made a personal tyre pressure calculator the wheels which we've put here:

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/aeox-wheels-tyre-data

Hello Xavier,

One question to maintenance of AEOX disc wheel. If it starts to oscillate slightly, is there any procedure how to center the wheel?

Thank you for your great work!

Bartosz
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Bartek_Zet] [ In reply to ]
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Bartek_Zet wrote:
Xavier wrote:
If anyone's got any further questions feel free to ask - there's quite a bit of data but didn't want to go overloading the website with too many graphs. We also made a personal tyre pressure calculator the wheels which we've put here:

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/aeox-wheels-tyre-data

Hello Xavier,

One question to maintenance of AEOX disc wheel. If it starts to oscillate slightly, is there any procedure how to center the wheel?

Thank you for your great work!

Bartosz

Hi Bartosz - if you mean truing the wheel then yes this is possible using a spoke tool as we have a square head on the nipples in the rim bed. You’d just need to remove the tyre, rim tape etc to get at the spokes :)

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier - I have a question on your aero data that has been puzzling me for a while. I'm used to seeing wind tunnel graphs showing a reduction in drag at yaw angles from ~5deg to ~15g where it then drops off again (both for wheel and bike results) akin to the Tour mag example below.

However, your charts do not appear to show and such reduction - what is the reason for this? I assumed initially everyone would be correcting measured tunnel data in the same way when giving yaw results back to the same 'quoted' speed but maybe suspecting this not the case? I dismissed it before because that would seem too straightforward an error! Or am I missing something else equally straighforward? Thanks in advance!


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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Polo_1272] [ In reply to ]
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Polo_1272 wrote:
Xavier - I have a question on your aero data that has been puzzling me for a while. I'm used to seeing wind tunnel graphs showing a reduction in drag at yaw angles from ~5deg to ~15g where it then drops off again (both for wheel and bike results) akin to the Tour mag example below.

However, your charts do not appear to show and such reduction - what is the reason for this? I assumed initially everyone would be correcting measured tunnel data in the same way when giving yaw results back to the same 'quoted' speed but maybe suspecting this not the case? I dismissed it before because that would seem too straightforward an error! Or am I missing something else equally straighforward? Thanks in advance!

Hi - thanks very much for the question and it is a really good one.

When we do our testing we use large numbers of repeats and live riders, we don't do wheel only testing for example. So what you're seeing in our graph is a test riders CdA (who we make hold a particular position that doesn't reward higher yaw values). If you did wheel only testing our wheels (and everyone elses) would drop down at yaw like the Tour test you see above. It's more the comparison between the wheels that's important rather than the characteristics of the yaw chart in this case. In our CFD data and in wheel only data (for our wheels and others) it would look more like the Tour graph.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Understood, many thanks! Im perhaps surprised then that the effect isnt slightly more evident given how big it is in the standalone data.

Does the ‘sailing effect’ get spoilt when part of a full system or is it still there but the rider is just that much worse at yaw?
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Polo_1272] [ In reply to ]
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Polo_1272 wrote:
Understood, many thanks! Im perhaps surprised then that the effect isnt slightly more evident given how big it is in the standalone data.

Does the ‘sailing effect’ get spoilt when part of a full system or is it still there but the rider is just that much worse at yaw?

It really depends on the rider and their position - in this example the rider is holding a position where they're sat really far forwards towards the front of the bike, which for them is much much more consistent in terms of data collection but results in the yaw graph you show.

Here's an example of a more normal position where there's a more decrease in CdA at yaw, from our Lotus vs Zipp 3001 vs Cervelo P5 test:

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/lotus-wind-tunnel

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier,

First of all I want to recognize amazing transparency and loads of data you guys are providing. Really unique attitude these days!

I know you cannot compare your wheels against every single wheelset out there, but any chance you have an insight how would Titan go vs Swiss Side Ultimate 80?

Thanks!
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [triprem] [ In reply to ]
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triprem wrote:
Xavier,

First of all I want to recognize amazing transparency and loads of data you guys are providing. Really unique attitude these days!

I know you cannot compare your wheels against every single wheelset out there, but any chance you have an insight how would Titan go vs Swiss Side Ultimate 80?

Thanks!

Hi - thanks for the kind words :)

We don’t have a specific comparison for the TITAN vs the Swissside 80, but your choice will depend a bit on your tyre preference, as our TITAN wheel is designed to work best with 23mm tyres. Which tyres are you looking at using?

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: Aerocoach new carbon wheels [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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I am using Vittoria Corsa Speed 2.0 23mm at the front. Rear is disc with 25mm Corsa. So the question is mostly about front.
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