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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
len wrote:
Will the Muslims of France for instance once they become the dominant culture be equally tolerant as the modern Frenchman?


What's the likelihood of that happening?

My google fu seems to say that Muslims make up somewhere between 5-10% of the French Population with only about 1/3 of those being "practicing" Muslims.

Seems about on par with worrying about the influence of Catholicism once the Hispanics become the dominant culture in the US?

I don't know about anything else -- because the argument for so-called "Muslim domination" seems a bit ahead of its time by centuries, actually -- and the French deserve whatever it is they get because they'll crawl into bed with and collaborate with any group they perceive to have the upper hand, but I think it's really nice to see the sort of tribal warfare it is we see in various Third World and Muslim hellholes finally make it to the West.

I mean, some fucking white lunatic slaughters a bunch of Muslims, in response to his belief that Muslims are slaughtering white Christians (I guess Christians), and boom! Some Turk, who's obviously a Muslim, goes on a shooting spree on a tram in Utrecht (that's in the Netherlands, for you geographically challenged folks).

So who gets it in the neck, next? Anyone taking bets yet?

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Nobody is asking you to say anything mean about Senor Trump. Just drop the whole "I am neutral observer" bullshit.

You aren't.

In any way.

Not even close.

And that's ok.

Just admit it.

That is all.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Last edited by: BLeP: Mar 18, 19 8:00
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
trail wrote:
There are some mass shooters who seem genuinely outside any recognizable political or religious cohort. The Vegas shooter was one. He apparently wasn't all that political or religious.

This isn't one of those guys. Just the opposite. He's provided the most detailed, painstakingly documented evidence of his ideological motivation and his ideological heroes that I can remember.


I was thinking about your comment while I was running today.

While the shooter clearly spent a lot of time forming and describing his motivation, his decided course of action was lazy and cowardly. And if he had really thought it through, he'd see that his shooting would only serve to hurt his own cause.

He went and shot a bunch of defenseless people.

What's that going to do? Probably incite other terrorists to look for revenge.

But is it going to turn away the "invaders" as he calls them? Not at all. As bad as it is to shoot up a religious place, it's not going to inspire the level of fear he desires. When refugees in war-torn countries are capable of fleeing to a first world nation, it's a no-brainer for them. As long as that level of strife exists, where it's dangerous for them every single day, they will want to leave.

General Petraeus' Counterinsurgency Field Manual extends this line of thought to actually stabilizing those war-torn areas. This is the real long-term goal. But it's a project of years, and to the guy who wrote that manifesto, it probably seems like doing nothing.

Isn't the purpose of a jihad to kill the infidel, whenever, wherever? In his mind, he is carrying that out (much like the jihadists). Isn't he saying - we can get you whenever, wherever? Nowhere is safe for you. I think that was his goal (sick and misguided as it is).

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.

No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
len wrote:
Will the Muslims of France for instance once they become the dominant culture be equally tolerant as the modern Frenchman?


What's the likelihood of that happening?

My google fu seems to say that Muslims make up somewhere between 5-10% of the French Population with only about 1/3 of those being "practicing" Muslims.

Seems about on par with worrying about the influence of Catholicism once the Hispanics become the dominant culture in the US?

I've said that multiple times here but the Fox News watchers keep wanting to equate North African descent with Muslim. In reality, most folks are largely secular.
But with Fox News folks, it's easier to match looks with ideology.
As for the number of Norther African descent people in France...it's ironic that the killer calls them invaders, when the reason they are in France in the first place is because France actually did invade them.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:

Isn't the purpose of a jihad to kill the infidel, whenever, wherever? In his mind, he is carrying that out (much like the jihadists). Isn't he saying - we can get you whenever, wherever? Nowhere is safe for you. I think that was his goal (sick and misguided as it is).

Exactly.

We've enter a cycle of retardation. Tit for tat killings. I don't have any clue how you stop it

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
len wrote:
Will the Muslims of France for instance once they become the dominant culture be equally tolerant as the modern Frenchman?


What's the likelihood of that happening?

My google fu seems to say that Muslims make up somewhere between 5-10% of the French Population with only about 1/3 of those being "practicing" Muslims.

Seems about on par with worrying about the influence of Catholicism once the Hispanics become the dominant culture in the US?


I've said that multiple times here but the Fox News watchers keep wanting to equate North African descent with Muslim. In reality, most folks are largely secular.
But with Fox News folks, it's easier to match looks with ideology.
As for the number of Norther African descent people in France...it's ironic that the killer calls them invaders, when the reason they are in France in the first place is because France actually did invade them.

And from what I saw France has more "Muslims" than any Western European nation. Seems to be a bit of hyperbole all this stuff about Europe being over run.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Nobody is asking you to say anything mean about Senor Trump. Just drop the whole "I am neutral observer" bullshit.

You aren't.

In any way.

Not even close.

And that's ok.

Just admit it.

That is all.

You're the ones who bring up this "impartiality" BS as regards me, not I. Have I ever given any indication that I'm in any way supportive of any policy nonsense being pushed by the left or progressives (BIRM)? I think I've been pretty clear in saying that I'm a conservative with libertarian leanings. That DOESN'T mean I'm either a Republican or a fan of the fucktard running around the Oval Office, just as I'm not supportive of any of the morons trying to cram into the Democratic Party presidential clown car right now. You won't find a bigger collection of idiots and jag-offs anywhere, IMHO.

I'm not voting in 2020. I didn't vote in 2018. Because what's the point?

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.


No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!

He asked me the question. Not you. But feel free to interject whatever you'd like and do all my talking for me. You seem good at that.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:

You're the ones who bring up this "impartiality" BS as regards me, not I.

Really? That's what you are going with?

I can't be bothered to pull up the numerous times that you have said this. Stop being an ass.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
len wrote:
Will the Muslims of France for instance once they become the dominant culture be equally tolerant as the modern Frenchman?


What's the likelihood of that happening?

My google fu seems to say that Muslims make up somewhere between 5-10% of the French Population with only about 1/3 of those being "practicing" Muslims.

Seems about on par with worrying about the influence of Catholicism once the Hispanics become the dominant culture in the US?

I don't know for sure. The French seem quite worried about it with a disproportionate number of Muslims being in French prisons. If Muslims were ten percent of the population and numbers doubled every twenty years due to higher birthrates and low native French birthrates being below replacement they could reach 40 percent in two generations. You don't have to be the majority to be the dominant culture either. There also is the tendency for ethnic populations to aggregate in certain areas so one could easily see significant areas of France being Muslim majority.

Putting that aside though I think we do need to answer why there are so many people who feel lost and left behind and are reacting so strongly to that by lashing out at others. I don't think simply denouncing them is going to solve that.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.


No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!

BK, please pay no attention to BLeP being BLeP. My question was not rhetorical nor in want of sarcasm. I asked earlier if moving forward, do you/we believe that the pulpit of the WH ,regardless of the occupant, has any influence at all on the action of crazies. I believe there is a little red PC book for such commentary by the president and the central premise of the book is to do no further harm or inflame without a game plan to back up words. That the president chooses to self script only enables criticism from detractors as well as justification from some seeing support of bad actions. What say you?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [len] [ In reply to ]
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I say this as someone who has lived in a conservative middle east country. Currently lives in France in a poor region and very poor town is probably moving to Riyadh.

If the Muslim parents of my daughters friends are really over producing relative to the rest of us in the area. I'm not seeing it.

My experience here, in the middle east and londonistan is most people just want to get on with their lives
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Isn't he saying - we can get you whenever, wherever?

That is exactly what he's saying. He wrote it verbatim in his screed.

It's White Nationalist jihad both in conception and execution.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
big kahuna wrote:


You're the ones who bring up this "impartiality" BS as regards me, not I.


Really? That's what you are going with?

I can't be bothered to pull up the numerous times that you have said this. Stop being an ass.

That's rich, coming from you. Anyway, you see what you want to see, which is fine with me. (Oooh! Poet but don't know it!)

Me, I'm voluntarily not voting in the next U.S. elections. Which is my right as a citizen of this country. Which country are you a citizen of, again? I forget.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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gofigure wrote:
BLeP wrote:
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.


No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!


BK, please pay no attention to BLeP being BLeP. My question was not rhetorical nor in want of sarcasm. I asked earlier if moving forward, do you/we believe that the pulpit of the WH ,regardless of the occupant, has any influence at all on the action of crazies. I believe there is a little red PC book for such commentary by the president and the central premise of the book is to do no further harm or inflame without a game plan to back up words. That the president chooses to self script only enables criticism from detractors as well as justification from some seeing support of bad actions. What say you?


OF COURSE what a U.S. president says or does or doesn't do can affect the crazies out there. These are the same people who listen to Beatles records, for example, and think that the group is commanding them to start some sort of race war, when all the lads are doing is singing about a damn roller coaster. This lunatic Tarrant is of the same stripe.

So what's a U.S. president supposed to do? And especially a guy like the current occupant who, if you try to punch him is going to try to punch you right back? Just STFU and deliver nonsense homilies in a fireside chat in the Oval Office? Leaving aside that his supporters -- including most Republicans, who still support him at levels exceeding 90% -- would throw him over if he ever stopped, it's also the case that the presidency has long since given up that sort of "gentlemanly" interaction with the American people and with the rest of the world, for good or ill.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Last edited by: big kahuna: Mar 18, 19 15:03
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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A sitting President could be crystal clear in condemnation of Nazis and white supremists - then their staff and handlers wouldn't have to step up to clarify and defend https://www.nbcnews.com/...-supremacist-n984191
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
This is in no way an original idea of mine but the question is being asked, is the political experiment of liberalism in the West running out of gas? In the face of the discontent of a large number of citizens is the solution to double down on liberalism insist on more gov't intervention to produce equal outcomes and enforce conformity or will that only exacerbate the situation?

I assume you're not talking about classical liberalism here. At least I hope you're not.

What do you mean by "doubling down on liberalism". As opposed to what? Running indoctrination camps like China is doing?

The dude picked the wrong country, though. New Zealand is a great example of successful multi-culturalism. All manner of polynesians were there first. Then all manner of Europeans (English, South African, Dutch, etc). Then Chinese, Indian, Filipino.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
gofigure wrote:
BLeP wrote:
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.


No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!


BK, please pay no attention to BLeP being BLeP. My question was not rhetorical nor in want of sarcasm. I asked earlier if moving forward, do you/we believe that the pulpit of the WH ,regardless of the occupant, has any influence at all on the action of crazies. I believe there is a little red PC book for such commentary by the president and the central premise of the book is to do no further harm or inflame without a game plan to back up words. That the president chooses to self script only enables criticism from detractors as well as justification from some seeing support of bad actions. What say you?


OF COURSE what a U.S. president says or does or doesn't do can affect the crazies out there. These are the same people who listen to Beatles records, for example, and think that the group is commanding them to start some sort of race war, when all the lads are doing is singing about a damn roller coaster. This lunatic Tarrant is of the same stripe.

So what's a U.S. president supposed to do? And especially a guy like the current occupant who, if you try to punch him is going to try to punch you right back? Just STFU and deliver nonsense homilies in a fireside chat in the Oval Office? Leaving aside that his supporters -- including most Republicans, who still support him at levels exceeding 90% -- would throw him over if he ever stopped, it's also the case that the presidency has long since given up that sort of "gentlemanly" interaction with the American people and with the rest of the world, for good or ill.

What’s a US president supposed to do?

Well George W Bush visited a mosque after 9/11 to demonstrate support for the Muslim community. Something the current president has been unable to do after the NZ shootings.

George Bush also said this today:

“amid all the complications of policy, may we never forget that immigration is a blessing and a strength.”

That’s what a US president is supposed to do.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
gofigure wrote:
BLeP wrote:
gofigure wrote:
So, will it be fair to assess, by comparison, the response to this incident from the WH? I am sure there is a little red book for such, and that no way has he or his staff consulted it.


No. That wouldn't be fair at all. That would be the LEFT WING MEDIA WHO IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING THEIR AGENDA!!!


BK, please pay no attention to BLeP being BLeP. My question was not rhetorical nor in want of sarcasm. I asked earlier if moving forward, do you/we believe that the pulpit of the WH ,regardless of the occupant, has any influence at all on the action of crazies. I believe there is a little red PC book for such commentary by the president and the central premise of the book is to do no further harm or inflame without a game plan to back up words. That the president chooses to self script only enables criticism from detractors as well as justification from some seeing support of bad actions. What say you?


OF COURSE what a U.S. president says or does or doesn't do can affect the crazies out there. These are the same people who listen to Beatles records, for example, and think that the group is commanding them to start some sort of race war, when all the lads are doing is singing about a damn roller coaster. This lunatic Tarrant is of the same stripe.

So what's a U.S. president supposed to do? And especially a guy like the current occupant who, if you try to punch him is going to try to punch you right back? Just STFU and deliver nonsense homilies in a fireside chat in the Oval Office? Leaving aside that his supporters -- including most Republicans, who still support him at levels exceeding 90% -- would throw him over if he ever stopped, it's also the case that the presidency has long since given up that sort of "gentlemanly" interaction with the American people and with the rest of the world, for good or ill.

Thank you.

Para 1: No debate there.

Para 2: I disagree with the bolded statements. The numbers willing to throw him over were he to be more inclusive and equal in his empathy of victims, however victimized, are insignificant. He could "play act" as a counter punching cowboy who wears a white hat somewhat like Reagan did. But that is not in his make up. The "real" Trump is a MAGA nationalist who is white and narcissistic. But is he a white supremacist nationalist? My take is that only the supremacists would be willing to throw him over. The nationalists would go along because they have no viable replacement. Heaven help the USA if the supremacists numbers are 90% of Trump's party, aka Republicans. As for the "long since given up gentlemanly presidencies", if that is the case, then it is entirely in the for ill category; and, you think the woman folk running for the office would take issue with your sexism?
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Side question. What does "throw him over" mean, since you guys keep using that phrase? Is it short for the metaphorical "throw overboard?"
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [trail] [ In reply to ]
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BK used. I just quoted. I assumed he meant no longer support. Throw overboard fits.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
An alternative view on what contributes to this kind of attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/...n-muslim-immigration

Senator Anning is looking for a new job after losing his senate seat in the election. Good riddance.
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Re: NZ Mosque Shooting [Ironnerd] [ In reply to ]
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Ironnerd wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
An alternative view on what contributes to this kind of attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/...n-muslim-immigration


Senator Anning is looking for a new job after losing his senate seat in the election. Good riddance.

labor supporter?
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