I'm lashing out? where is the lashing out? look, one more (to you) because i just don't feel we're having a conversation any more fruitful than my typical conversation with you. here's my simple question for you. what happens to us when we die? i'm sure you've got a simple answer. i don't. i don't know the answer. there's a lot of things to which i don't know the answer. and i'm smart enough to know how dumb i am. when answers aren't so simple. the apostle paul exhorted the philippians to work out their salvation in fear and trembling. because it's not all so glib and certain. here's one more for you, from james: this is true religion, to come to the aid of widows and orphans in distress.

what i know for goddamsure is that we've got a lot of widows and orphans in distress. so, perhaps you could take a timeout in your advocacy for zygotes and tell me why you're good with your captain slashing CHIP funding. against the backdrop of the book of james. when i know that you... actually... care... about life (because i don't know when it starts, but i'm damned well confident it's started by the time the baby qualifies for the CHIP program) then maybe we might hope to find some common ground.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Well to put it in context I was replying to someone who said, “as someone who has had an abortion I don’t consider it a life...”

I figured since the door was opened to personal anecdotes I’d share some of my own which include the termination of s pregnancy for which I was half responsible and the attempted but failed termination of what is now my son.

And I pointed out how differently those things turned out. One fertilized egg survived an abortion and became what is now a teenager and the other fertilized egg that did not survive an abortion and became what is now source of emotional pain for the woman who had the abortion.

Like I’ve been saying here, this is a messy subject.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

There shouldnt be any emotional pain, see, it was just a collection of cells. Clearly she’s delusional.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Well some people need to believe that it’s a “clump of cells” in order to live with their decision.

I don’t. I can accept that’s it the ending of a life and despite that, should remain legal.

But I’m a guy that isn’t all that concerned with making things comfortable.

Sometimes you just have to make shitty, horrible, regrettable choices.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

when you get done with your happy time circle jerk, let the rest of us know. because, there's no right way to think about an abortion. each girl or woman has the right to feel profoundly sad, to feel the weight of the decision, or to invest the procedure with fewer moral or spiritual overtones.

there are assholes on both sides of this argument. and only an asshole thinks that the default view from the pro-choice side is to treat abortion with a cavalier attitude.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

We had a lump of cells inserted into my wife through IVF and it failed to continue developing.

We also had a lump of cells announce itself through a pregnancy test and then for whatever reason terminated.

Both times it sucked. A lot.

I don't know why though. Just a lump of cells.

I must have mental issues I guess.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I have no problem living with my decision, nor did I make a shitty, horrible, regrettable choice. I'm totally fine with my choice. Imperative word = CHOICE.

Pretty funny that 99% of the people commenting on this thread is a bunch of people with penises.

From a friend of a friend: White Alabama men are fighting for the rights of a bunch of cells inside a woman’s uterus, but if those cells turn out to be gay, lesbian, bi, trans, a woman, black, brown, Muslim...suddenly they won’t fight for them, they will literally fight against them.

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I guess you're against IUDs, then. Because they are a form of contraception that prevents the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterine wall. They also have a substance that kills sperm, but fertilization may occur.

You think the court was telling them they had to have abortions?

I don’t have a problem with your decision either.

I do however think that choosing between being a teenage mother or having an abortion is a shitty choice. Neither option is good.

As for a bunch of people with penises...how the hell do you think that clump of cells got there?

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Can you please point out to me what it is in any of the posts I’ve made on this site which made you come to the conclusion that I would be against IUD’s?

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I know this has been mentioned before and I’m truly sorry that you had to go through these setbacks. Stuff like can be emotionally difficult to say the least. I’m really happy for you that you were ultimately successful in your quest to have the lump of cells you worked so hard for.

I wish the you and your wife the best in raising your lumps that made it all the way to non-lumpdum. I really mean that.

My wife and also did fertility treatments in an attempt have some lumps made but ultimately gave up and adopted a clump of cells from Russia.

So far so good.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

The idiocy and mental gymnastics of this legislation is incredible. They seriously think the SCOTUS is going to consider this? Or maybe they don't and being safe in such a ruby red state leads you to do crazy things like this and nominate Roy Moore. I swear, Alabama is stupid. But Georgia is on the same track and several other red states are on this track including mine. I think I've argued with more republican friends over this in the last few days than I have with democrats since November.

This is a colossal waste of political capital that isn't going to go anywhere. There won't be a sudden change in the judiciary. The courts in recent year basically validated the ability for anybody to have reasonable access to an abortion and barred fairly mild obstacles when compared to this, I bet it doesn't get past appellate court. Lower courts will stay it, appellate courts won't even hear arguments, and neither with the SCOTUS. So all this will have done given the left a very valid talking point about how nutty the Republican party is.

I swear to fucking god, it's like everybody is doubling down on being crazy. Republicans elect trump, we get our schadenfreude, but its run its course. Now all democrats have to do is play it safe and do no harm, but they too are trying to out crazy each other to win over a crazy base. So the republicans stand a good chance of holding the senate, maybe a couple house seats back (no majority), and the white house is competitive. Then this. I've had three fairly reasonable elected officials I consult with say they cringe whenever this topic comes up. Because it's a loser. It's a no win situation that lingers.

All that can be done has basically been done legislatively to control and limit abortion. Most state laws already align with limits on abortion beyond 22 months. But the rabid base now wants absolute bans. Like immigration, we can reduce it by attacking the problem. In the case of illegal immigration, go after employers illegally hiring. For abortion we can educate youth with realistic sex education and access to birth control. But these same fucking nutter don't want that. They don't want kids fucking period and think sex ed entices kids, and bc takes away responsibility, so only abstinence is acceptable. Sorry, but this has been a problem forever, and it isn't working. How about we rationally address the risk?

But wait, there's more. These same a-holes are the ones who don't want tax money going to welfare. Single mothers are the main recipients of welfare. Nor are these jack wagons lining up to adopt white trash, black or brown babies. So what can you do if you are a republican not running in a ruby red district? Shrug I guess.

My favorite aspect of the law is that it remains perfectly legal to use abortifactients "up to the point a woman learns she's pregnant." Then it becomes illegal.

Soooooooo...there's that.

---

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Hard to overstate the way that RU-486 has changed the imperative to block abortion at 6 weeks. Surgical abortions are plummeting and early abortions are rising (overall, abortion rates have been dropping for decades). In many countries, overall abortion rates are very low, and 95% of abortions are medical. This largely satisfies the vast majority of the populace that is pro-choice, but opposes late-term abortion. Here are some articles about the situation in Canada:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/...e-activism-in-canada
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/...as-stopped-offering/

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Emily Ratajkowski poses naked to decry '25 old white men' who voted to ban abortion in Alabama...

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Thanks. I mostly bring it up because I don’t understand how anyone who has lost a child that they wanted and gone through that grief can then say “it’s just a lump of cells”.

I can’t rectify those two. Maybe others can but it sounds like mental gymnastics to me.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

The bolded part is a major difference. Very sorry you went through it. My mom and dad went through it 5 times with one stillbirth before they adopted me and my brother.

Did your wife have a D&C after miscarriage? Under the proposed Georgia law this wouldn't be allowed, right?

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Then why do you insist on getting in semantic arguments with people who essentially agree w/ you?

Ummm.... Troubleshooting 101 would suggest that the one thing in common to all these problem observation is you. No?

Just a thought.

Eh, that's only true for some methods. Others prevent the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus, in which case they've cause the death of a 'whatever' that would otherwise presumably go on to become a viable person at some point. So depending on how you wish to define it, some forms of contraception work by essentially inducing a super-early abortion.

Have fun w/ that....

Not exactly the same point, but kinda close...

So intent changes it’s biology? If you want it it’s a baby, if you don’t it’s a clump of cells?

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb