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Re: Liverdamage from IM-training? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev,

A recent blood test and some new symptoms have raised my level of concern in regards to my fatty liver.

Two years ago when my hip flexors were bothering me, my doctor had some medical x-ray imaging done to rule out more serious problems than hip flexors. He told me that I was fine except that I had a fatty liver and scarred lungs. We took no action on either of those two things because I really wasn't showing any symptoms that would impede working out 3-4 hours a day.

Now my bilirubin is elevated and more tests are being done. Two big symptoms that are now bothering me are itching (especially at night) and fatigue (especially in the afternoon). While it's rare for men to have PBC, I guess it's possible. We'll see what other tests show and if I am AMA positive too.

My bads.

While burning a ton of calories (2000 is a ton) while training, I took little care of how I was replacing the calories. The old "Once a Runner" idea that if the furnace is hot enough... Daily after training, I would re-hydrate and satisfy a calorie deficit with sodas and fast food for cheap and quick satisfaction.

Mental and emotional stress was also huge (a lot of it intentionally caused by the ex) in the last fifteen years. If I come up with an autoimmune reaction from stress, I will totally understand that too.

Health is what your organs can do. Fitness is what you can do. My level of fitness is way above my age. My level of health will be taking a big hit if my liver fails in the next 4-8 years.

My goods.

My training can be healthy coping. I've used it throughout my life to get through my tragedies. I don't have to learn how to like exercise for my health. I already do.

I can change my diet. Looks like I need to be on water and 3-4 cups of coffee for my liquids. Processed foods are out as I need to eat apples and not apple pies, fritters, pastries...

Retired so I can rest, pray, read, take walks, get Vitamin D from the sun, etc.

Besides the blood test, fatigue and pruritus, I have been having trouble digesting red meat for a while which I simply attributed to poor digestion. I've been blowing off or attributing incorrectly what bothers me for years.

While considering my fitness and the ability to train 3-4 hours a day, I thought I was healthy and on my way to 100. My body didn't look this good in high school.

In closing, when it comes to your health, just because you are fit doesn't mean that you are healthy. You might have many symptoms that you don't address because you are fit. It's rather natural that we don't want to think otherwise.

PS This is good. https://www.slowtwitch.com/...ee_of_health._4.html

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Liverdamage from IM-training? [TRIA3SM] [ In reply to ]
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1. Don't booze
2, Don't get viral hepatitis
3. Don't be fat
4. Don't get poisoned
5. Choose your parents carefully.
6. Make sure it's well cooked, and remember to buy onions.

Do you think they'll have me on Swedish TV?
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Re: Liverdamage from IM-training? [fruit thief] [ In reply to ]
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Stop working out and rest until itching is gone. If you keep doing it, things will go bad and eventually you will get sick. A lot of sleep and good food helps. IM is not worth doing it at this point. Just trust me. I’ve been there done that.
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Re: Liverdamage from IM-training? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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IT wrote:
Dev,

A recent blood test and some new symptoms have raised my level of concern in regards to my fatty liver.

Two years ago when my hip flexors were bothering me, my doctor had some medical x-ray imaging done to rule out more serious problems than hip flexors. He told me that I was fine except that I had a fatty liver and scarred lungs. We took no action on either of those two things because I really wasn't showing any symptoms that would impede working out 3-4 hours a day.

Now my bilirubin is elevated and more tests are being done. Two big symptoms that are now bothering me are itching (especially at night) and fatigue (especially in the afternoon). While it's rare for men to have PBC, I guess it's possible. We'll see what other tests show and if I am AMA positive too.

My bads.

While burning a ton of calories (2000 is a ton) while training, I took little care of how I was replacing the calories. The old "Once a Runner" idea that if the furnace is hot enough... Daily after training, I would re-hydrate and satisfy a calorie deficit with sodas and fast food for cheap and quick satisfaction.

Mental and emotional stress was also huge (a lot of it intentionally caused by the ex) in the last fifteen years. If I come up with an autoimmune reaction from stress, I will totally understand that too.

Health is what your organs can do. Fitness is what you can do. My level of fitness is way above my age. My level of health will be taking a big hit if my liver fails in the next 4-8 years.

My goods.

My training can be healthy coping. I've used it throughout my life to get through my tragedies. I don't have to learn how to like exercise for my health. I already do.

I can change my diet. Looks like I need to be on water and 3-4 cups of coffee for my liquids. Processed foods are out as I need to eat apples and not apple pies, fritters, pastries...

Retired so I can rest, pray, read, take walks, get Vitamin D from the sun, etc.

Besides the blood test, fatigue and pruritus, I have been having trouble digesting red meat for a while which I simply attributed to poor digestion. I've been blowing off or attributing incorrectly what bothers me for years.

While considering my fitness and the ability to train 3-4 hours a day, I thought I was healthy and on my way to 100. My body didn't look this good in high school.

In closing, when it comes to your health, just because you are fit doesn't mean that you are healthy. You might have many symptoms that you don't address because you are fit. It's rather natural that we don't want to think otherwise.

PS This is good. https://www.slowtwitch.com/...ee_of_health._4.html


This is a revived 12yo thread, and it's interesting. There was a lot of discussion about liver damage do to extensive endurance training, now I just hear references to cardiac damage from long term endurance training. Did the liver damage concern turn out to be nothing?
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Re: Liverdamage from IM-training? [fruit thief] [ In reply to ]
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fruit thief wrote:
1. Don't booze
2, Don't get viral hepatitis
3. Don't be fat
4. Don't get poisoned
5. Choose your parents carefully.
6. Make sure it's well cooked, and remember to buy onions.

Do you think they'll have me on Swedish TV?

Except for #1, you're fine for Swedish TV.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Liverdamage from IM-training? [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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vonschnapps wrote:
IT wrote:
Dev,

A recent blood test and some new symptoms have raised my level of concern in regards to my fatty liver.

Two years ago when my hip flexors were bothering me, my doctor had some medical x-ray imaging done to rule out more serious problems than hip flexors. He told me that I was fine except that I had a fatty liver and scarred lungs. We took no action on either of those two things because I really wasn't showing any symptoms that would impede working out 3-4 hours a day.

Now my bilirubin is elevated and more tests are being done. Two big symptoms that are now bothering me are itching (especially at night) and fatigue (especially in the afternoon). While it's rare for men to have PBC, I guess it's possible. We'll see what other tests show and if I am AMA positive too.

My bads.

While burning a ton of calories (2000 is a ton) while training, I took little care of how I was replacing the calories. The old "Once a Runner" idea that if the furnace is hot enough... Daily after training, I would re-hydrate and satisfy a calorie deficit with sodas and fast food for cheap and quick satisfaction.

Mental and emotional stress was also huge (a lot of it intentionally caused by the ex) in the last fifteen years. If I come up with an autoimmune reaction from stress, I will totally understand that too.

Health is what your organs can do. Fitness is what you can do. My level of fitness is way above my age. My level of health will be taking a big hit if my liver fails in the next 4-8 years.

My goods.

My training can be healthy coping. I've used it throughout my life to get through my tragedies. I don't have to learn how to like exercise for my health. I already do.

I can change my diet. Looks like I need to be on water and 3-4 cups of coffee for my liquids. Processed foods are out as I need to eat apples and not apple pies, fritters, pastries...

Retired so I can rest, pray, read, take walks, get Vitamin D from the sun, etc.

Besides the blood test, fatigue and pruritus, I have been having trouble digesting red meat for a while which I simply attributed to poor digestion. I've been blowing off or attributing incorrectly what bothers me for years.

While considering my fitness and the ability to train 3-4 hours a day, I thought I was healthy and on my way to 100. My body didn't look this good in high school.

In closing, when it comes to your health, just because you are fit doesn't mean that you are healthy. You might have many symptoms that you don't address because you are fit. It's rather natural that we don't want to think otherwise.

PS This is good. https://www.slowtwitch.com/...ee_of_health._4.html



This is a revived 12yo thread, and it's interesting. There was a lot of discussion about liver damage do to extensive endurance training, now I just hear references to cardiac damage from long term endurance training. Did the liver damage concern turn out to be nothing?

It is an old thread - to paraphrase "Why would you do anything without consulting ST..." rings true.

The concern is current and on going. They ordered more tests this week so I'll know more next week. This could be one of those things where they test a lot and the result or remedy won't change. Onto my new eating habits...

In hindsight there are some meds - like serotonin uptake inhibitors, some allergy meds - that can mask the itching. I may have had this going on for awhile. My main concern is the high bilirubin because that indicates the little bile ducs in the liver might not be clearing. That plus the fatigue and itching points towards PBC which is a liver autoimmune disorder that's not curable. It's not an alcohol response it's an autoimmune response. Other hints were trouble digesting steak or any fatty meat. Was cutting wine with water and couldn't take tri "food" while on the bike for two years now.

I feel like an idiot because at 6' and 145lbs, when my doctor told me that I had a fatty liver two years ago, I thought "hey I can cut out the sodas and this will disappear in no time" - maybe not.

However, if you are really fit (able to do things) then you can fool the world and yourself into thinking that you are healthy (even though your organs might be failing).

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Liverdamage from IM-training? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]
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Dang. Too many calories consumed correlates to nonalcoholic fatty liver disease.

https://caloriecontrol.org/...ive-dietary-pattern/

This is far worse than "the heart has only so many beats". In that case, our resting heart rate plus our working heart rate is less than the total heart beats of a sedentary person.

With our liver, do we only get so many calories? It's not like we have a resting liver rate.

For most of my life I have been training, burning calories and eating whatever I wanted without a weight gain concern. 2000 calories burnt in a training day was common. So if the liver has a limited life span of calories, I'm screwed.

https://journals.lww.com/...s_associated.42.aspx

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Liverdamage from IM-training? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]
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Jonas wrote:
The most wellknown nutritionist in Sweden stated in a seminar, which was quoted on Swedish TV, that he would never ever run a marathon and thought that Ironman triathlons were ludicrous and that both events (and lifestyle) were harmful to a persons health and specifically the liver.

His argument was that the huge amounts of free radicals produced through exercise, and the equally huge amounts of antioxidants we strive to consume in order to restrict cellular damage (from the free radicals) would have a longterm effect on the liver.

He actually went as far as comparing the liver of longtime IM-individuals to alcoholics..

I�m in Arizona right now training and we have some medical expertise on hand and they don�t get his argumentation. Is the liver at all involved in the process of ridding the body of free radicals?
Isn�t this entire process of radicals and antioxidants taking place on a cellular level?

I just want to have some opinions so I can trash this guys arguments since by all means an IM-lifestyle is far healthier than the average Joe�s sedentary one..

Breathing oxygen creates the prooxidant superoxide. Maybe your Swedish buddy should stop that too?
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