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Re: Uber assault [microspawn] [ In reply to ]
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microspawn wrote:
It would be very easy for each uber driver to have a unique QR code (even a sticker or magnet attached to the passenger door or inside window) that could be scanned from the app to verify that the correct car has arrived. Drunk or not most people can and do still operate their phones. If this became practice then this particular problem could all but be eliminated.


This seems like perfectly reasonable and relatively simple solution.
Last edited by: Frank: Apr 9, 19 13:32
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Re: Uber assault [microspawn] [ In reply to ]
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microspawn wrote:
It would be very easy for each uber driver to have a unique QR code (even a sticker or magnet attached to the passenger door or inside window) that could be scanned from the app to verify that the correct car has arrived. Drunk or not most people can and do still operate their phones. If this became practice then this particular problem could all but be eliminated.

The uber app already gives you:
1. the GPS location of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
2. a photo of your uber driver
3. the make/model/(dont remember about color) of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
4. the license plate number of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
5. the uber drivers first name

seriously, how much more information does a person need to get in the correct car?
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Re: Uber assault [tfleeger] [ In reply to ]
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tfleeger wrote:

The uber app already gives you:
1. the GPS location of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
2. a photo of your uber driver
3. the make/model/(dont remember about color) of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
4. the license plate number of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
5. the uber drivers first name

seriously, how much more information does a person need to get in the correct car?

Exactly.

Check the license plate and car make/model/color and make sure it matches what you were sent.
Make the driver tell you (1) what their name is and (2) who they are picking up (do not offer your name).
Do not have your face in your phone on the ride. Pay attention.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Uber assault [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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AlanShearer wrote:
velocomp wrote:
AlanShearer wrote:
I agree with the need for personal responsibility. I've always advised my college age kids that the first defense is to not get too drunk that they're not in control but that, as a back up, they should still be around friends who will protect them. That even if they're using a service like Uber, they still need to have someone to remain the designated reasonably sober friend.

And this is not victim blaming. The victims of these kind of assaults should not be blamed. They got drunk and didn't have backup. It happens. But the question here is whether a third party who did not commit the assault should be held liable for something that an unrelated criminal did.

I suspect the plaintiffs' argument will be that Uber advertises itself as a service for people who are too drunk to drive, so it's on notice that a certain percentage of potential customers will be drunk, perhaps too intoxicated to check to see if the right car has pulled up. Uber is also on notice that criminals may take advantage of this. So does Uber have an obligation to do something more, given how it caters to this type of customer? I'm curious if there's anything additional technologically that Uber could do.


The problem is what can a driver do when they get to the site and the person they are to pick up is not there.

The answer??? Nothing...

There is nothing technological that they should or could do. Maybe the person took lyft instead. Maybe they found someone else to ride with. Maybe they've been abducted. But none of that is Uber's business or responsibility.


Is there really nothing? I'll admit that I'm not the most creative, but how about an alarm or signal that goes off on the app when the correct car has arrived? Passenger learns not to hop into any car unless that alarm has gone off. There probably are other solutions.

The person so drunk they couldn't figure that the app was telling them it was the wrong car will now be able to take instructions? Again. You are expecting too much from a company that has absolutely no blame in this event.
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Re: Uber assault [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
But there is a technology-related step Uber can take. Their scheduling software/app knows to connect rider and driver/car. Shouldn't be difficult to also know if a connection has not been made and a missed connection could trigger a text or other alert to the rider. Maybe if she got this, she would've realized she's in the wrong car, before it's too late.

Here is how the app works: passenger (pax) is notified the driver is a minute away. Then pax is notified driver has arrived.
The pax gets notices and vehicle info. They are too damn drunk.
The typical drunk pax gets in a car and passes out.
I've only given about 7500 rides, so my knowledge might be limited (sarcasm intended).
I am continuously shocked at the number of drunk women that travel by themselves.

I am continuously surprised at how stupid people get on a Friday or Saturday night.

I picked up a woman one time who was about to get forced into a van. I jumped out of my car and acted like her boyfriend. No Uber tech would have solved that.
The person got in the wrong car. The driver had child safety locks. As soon as she got in the car, she was done.
I had a woman tell me she got in the wrong car and he locked the doors. Fortunately her friends immediately realized what happened and they surrounded the car.
Lyft amps (their lights) and Uber lights can be bought on line.

People who do not understand the wilderness often hike into the wilderness and run into peril. Should we fence off all the wilderness or hold the hiker responsible?

I went to a military college. I was told as a freshman if you get too drunk and screw up around an upperclassman, you'll pay. You know what I never did? Got drunk around upperclassmen.
If you want to travel solo, maintain your wits.
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Re: Uber assault [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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Good punk band name.
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Re: Uber assault [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
Holding Uber liable is like holding the local police department liable for someone who impersonated a police officer.


Not even close.
Last edited by: AlanShearer: Apr 9, 19 16:41
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Re: Uber assault [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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ironclm wrote:
tfleeger wrote:

The uber app already gives you:
1. the GPS location of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
2. a photo of your uber driver
3. the make/model/(dont remember about color) of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
4. the license plate number of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
5. the uber drivers first name

seriously, how much more information does a person need to get in the correct car?

Exactly.

Check the license plate and car make/model/color and make sure it matches what you were sent.
Make the driver tell you (1) what their name is and (2) who they are picking up (do not offer your name).
Do not have your face in your phone on the ride. Pay attention.

Agree. Horrible situation, but given the existing precautions that are already in place, any additional lights, alarms or code words would almost certainly have been ignored.
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Re: Uber assault [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]
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Bumble Bee wrote:
My point is Uber cannot control someone getting in the wrong car.

A bar can attempt to not over-serve a patron.

But is that really true?

Uber cannot completely control it, but they may be able to implement measures to make it less likely. I don't know how feasible such measure are -- thus my original question. But I'm not yet ready to simply rule out that there isn't something more that Uber can reasonably do.

You seem to be saying that Uber shouldn't have to do something more, despite the fact that its business model invites this kind of problem and that it is on notice of the problem.
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Re: Uber assault [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]
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Here is how the app works: passenger (pax) is notified the driver is a minute away. Then pax is notified driver has arrived.

As someone who regularly uses Uber, as recently as yesterday, I know how the app works. Unless there has been a recent update, there is no separate notification. I've never received any kind of notice that the car is one minute away. If I'm monitoring the app and watching the map constantly, I can track the car when it's coming, so I can also do a countdown 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 etc. minutes. There's nothing that pops up when the car is one minute away. Not message, not alert, no noise, no nothing.

I am continuously surprised at how stupid people get on a Friday or Saturday night.


Uber's business model is to do business with drunk and stupid people on Friday and Saturday nights.
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Re: Uber assault [Apollo71] [ In reply to ]
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Apollo71 wrote:
ironclm wrote:
tfleeger wrote:


The uber app already gives you:
1. the GPS location of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
2. a photo of your uber driver
3. the make/model/(dont remember about color) of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
4. the license plate number of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
5. the uber drivers first name

seriously, how much more information does a person need to get in the correct car?


Exactly.

Check the license plate and car make/model/color and make sure it matches what you were sent.
Make the driver tell you (1) what their name is and (2) who they are picking up (do not offer your name).
Do not have your face in your phone on the ride. Pay attention.


Agree. Horrible situation, but given the existing precautions that are already in place, any additional lights, alarms or code words would almost certainly have been ignored.

Possibly, not not clear.

Uber's business model is, in part, to cater to drunk people. Maybe there's nothing more that can reasonably be done. I find it interesting, however, how easily people are to immediately throw up their hand and shout, "it cant be solved. there's nothing do to."

I have no problem with Uber being absolved of any responsibility in this situations if it's truly the case that they've taken reasonable precautions. But given that nobody can question that this is in part their business model, that they know their customers may be too intoxicated to take advantage of existing safety precautions, and that criminals in some locations have and will take advantage of holes in the system, I'm surprised how quickly many here argue that Uber has absolutely no obligation.
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Re: Uber assault [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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AlanShearer wrote:
Apollo71 wrote:
ironclm wrote:
tfleeger wrote:


The uber app already gives you:
1. the GPS location of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
2. a photo of your uber driver
3. the make/model/(dont remember about color) of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
4. the license plate number of the vehicle you're supposed to get into
5. the uber drivers first name

seriously, how much more information does a person need to get in the correct car?


Exactly.

Check the license plate and car make/model/color and make sure it matches what you were sent.
Make the driver tell you (1) what their name is and (2) who they are picking up (do not offer your name).
Do not have your face in your phone on the ride. Pay attention.


Agree. Horrible situation, but given the existing precautions that are already in place, any additional lights, alarms or code words would almost certainly have been ignored.

Possibly, not not clear.

Uber's business model is, in part, to cater to drunk people. Maybe there's nothing more that can reasonably be done. I find it interesting, however, how easily people are to immediately throw up their hand and shout, "it cant be solved. there's nothing do to."

I have no problem with Uber being absolved of any responsibility in this situations if it's truly the case that they've taken reasonable precautions. But given that nobody can question that this is in part their business model, that they know their customers may be too intoxicated to take advantage of existing safety precautions, and that criminals in some locations have and will take advantage of holes in the system, I'm surprised how quickly many here argue that Uber has absolutely no obligation.

My view is they have no obligation or liability, but they better try to do something as the negative press is hurting their brand. Doing nothing suggests they don't give a crap about customer safety.

My point was that any measures they do implement will rely on the user taking some step - checking their phone, looking for a light on the car, talking to the driver. I can't see any other way around it and not sure it would have made any difference.

If nothing else, I'm sure users are going to be more vigilant in the future.
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Re: Uber assault [Apollo71] [ In reply to ]
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That’s fair. But when you say that Cooper bear is no responsibility, let’s explore what that really means.

Assume Uber’s business model as we know it . also assume Uber is aware of the risk of impersonators

By no responsibility, are you saying that Uber has no obligation to take any security precautions? Are you saying that it be perfectly except acceptable liability wise for them to not on their app display drivers license drivers name and make and model of the car? That they could simply have the driver show up, roll down the window, and say, “hey I’m your Uber driver“ and Not have any liability for the known risk of impersonators?

Once you admit that Uber has at least some responsibility to address this risk, doesn’t the question then become what reasonable measures should they be required to take? Isn’t that what this case is about?
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Re: Uber assault [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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AlanShearer wrote:
That’s fair. But when you say that Cooper bear is no responsibility, let’s explore what that really means.

Assume Uber’s business model as we know it . also assume Uber is aware of the risk of impersonators

By no responsibility, are you saying that Uber has no obligation to take any security precautions? Are you saying that it be perfectly except acceptable liability wise for them to not on their app display drivers license drivers name and make and model of the car? That they could simply have the driver show up, roll down the window, and say, “hey I’m your Uber driver“ and Not have any liability for the known risk of impersonators?

Once you admit that Uber has at least some responsibility to address this risk, doesn’t the question then become what reasonable measures should they be required to take? Isn’t that what this case is about?

I'm confused, the app already does give you the make/model of the car, the driver's name and the license plate number.

I thought your argument was that this is not enough since they should expect their passenger to be drunk and will ignore all this?
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Re: Uber assault [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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Here's the trail solution.

Your phone has GPS. The driver's phone has GPS. Though stickers are still common, Uber/Lyft are starting to use USB-powered lights.

Have a button on the passenger's phone that pops up when the 1-minute alert is in place. Pressing that button makes the Uber/Lyft light turn on. And releasing the button makes it turn off. That way you can press your own pattern in a way that's impossible for anyone to spoof. Makes it easy to identify *your* car in a dense Uber areas like in front of a popular bar or an airport waiting area. Easy for drunk or stoned people to use...ooooh look at the flashing light!

Submitting patent....
Last edited by: trail: Apr 9, 19 17:35
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Re: Uber assault [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Ya that or... read the plate number
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Re: Uber assault [tfleeger] [ In reply to ]
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tfleeger wrote:
Ya that or... read the plate number

Hard in the dark, complicated when drunk.
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Re: Uber assault [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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The only thing more Uber could do is put people on every street corner and ask if you're getting in the right car. People don't want to pay for that increased cost plus that isn't realistic.
Again, I point to having done way too much driving (ie experience).
Numerous people have mistakenly got in my car. Do you know what the majority say? "Can you please take me anyway?"

A drunk woman gets in a car. Creeper has child locks on doors. What can Uber do about that? Absolutely nothing.

Let's say drivers all have to now drive yellow cars. Creeper shows up in yellow car. Same bad result.

Can you please tell me how you keep a drunk person from getting in the wrong car?

On a side note, when a single woman gets in my car and doesn't say anything, i politely tell her she needs to confirm my name. I always confirm my pax names.

You need to go to an area with a lot of bars at bar close and observe behaviors.
About the only other thing Uber could do is force users to watch a safety video before the app is functional. It really comes down to personal responsibility.

I'm going to assume you're around 40 or older. These 20somethings are invincible in their own minds, especially when drunk.
Is it normal behavior to get busy in the back seat of a stranger's car when the stranger is in the front seat? I tell them to stop and they make it like I'm the asshole.
They want to stuff 8 people in my car and when I tell them no, I'm the asshole.
I tell them they are in the wrong car and no, I can't take them anyway. Half the time you know what they tell me? "Fuck you".

The dude who kept asking if I wanted him to suck me off? Yep, he cussed me out when I kicked him out of my car. And it wasn't until the 4th time I told him to stop. It gave me appreciation for what women put up with but the difference is I'm 200+ and the guy realized he could either exit under his own power or with my "assistance".
At some point these kids need to grow up and take responsibility for their actions.

The point I am trying to make is the younger pax don't give 2 shits about rules or safety.
And on notifications, on the driver end the app says "rider has been notified" and when we get to the pickup spot, we hit "arrived," so I assume another notification has been sent.
I also send a text which most experienced drivers also do.
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Re: Uber assault [Justgeorge] [ In reply to ]
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Justgeorge wrote:
I drive Lyft and we have a Lyft light that they give us after a certain number of rides, like 900. When we get to the pickup point the light turns from pink to some other shade I think yellow or green.

I've seen Uber cars that have a similar blue light but I don't know what it does when they get to the pickup point

^^^
I drove both Uber/Lyft for a little, and I've heard that this might be a requirement for some areas. Having a light so the passenger knows it's a their driver by matching the color and it's an actual driver that has had some sort of background check by the company.

But there is a lot of risks for both passengers and drivers as well as ways that both do to either try to make more money or not pay. The only one that really benefits is urber/lyft. RIders claim a service engine light was on, the driver seemed intoxicated, or just claim the ride never happened and they get the refund. Drivers will ask for cash upfront for trips that take them out of their area telling the passenger they won't get a return ride.
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