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Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5
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I've been using the same Garmin Fenix 5 with my foot pod and Stryd. The pace usually read a little fast since the footpod reads fast on my watch. My pace on Zwift seems to match up to the treadmill speed by 1-2 secs per mile at 1%. But over the last two days my pace is now slower vs treadmill. I've been using the same treadmill at the YMCA. It was especially slow today. I was running on the treadmill at 7:30 pace and it was reading 8 min pace on watch. I didn't have Zwift open to see how it compared. Is it possible the treadmill went out of calibration in 2 days? I even tried switching treadmills this AM and it was still reading slow. Any suggestions? Or any ideas whats causing this?
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [endurancealex1] [ In reply to ]
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I also have a Stryd and a 920xt. When I run on the treadmill my Stryd pace is significantly off from what the treadmill's showing (up to 30 sec/min pace). It's been this way since I've got it and I probably have over 100 treadmill runs on various treadmills with it. Repair suggestions welcomed/appreciated!
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [endurancealex1] [ In reply to ]
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I have both a garmin and stryd footpods.

I've interchanged them and found them to be nearly the same as each other. They vary on the treadmill on different days a few seconds per mile with a 920, 935 and zwift for android. Actually Zwift is the most consistent, I don't know why, maybe it's bluetooth on the stryd and Ant+ on the 920, 935.

I've found that if their mounting on the laces is loose and sloppy, both of them are very inconsistent.
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [TXAgeGrouper] [ In reply to ]
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TXAgeGrouper wrote:
I also have a Stryd and a 920xt. When I run on the treadmill my Stryd pace is significantly off from what the treadmill's showing (up to 30 sec/min pace). It's been this way since I've got it and I probably have over 100 treadmill runs on various treadmills with it. Repair suggestions welcomed/appreciated!

Contact your TM manufacturer or google whether your TM has a calibration mode. My Sole F80 has this. Hopefully , it'll get you at closer to pace than 30sec off, which is a ton.
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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I did switch my footpod and stryd to different shoes this weekend. I'll double check to see if they are snug on the laces...maybe this is the cause!
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [TXAgeGrouper] [ In reply to ]
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TXAgeGrouper wrote:
I also have a Stryd and a 920xt. When I run on the treadmill my Stryd pace is significantly off from what the treadmill's showing (up to 30 sec/min pace). It's been this way since I've got it and I probably have over 100 treadmill runs on various treadmills with it. Repair suggestions welcomed/appreciated!

This is my experience with the stryd on the treadmill. 920xt and treadmill usually are pretty close together, but stryd on zwift will say 30s/mile slower. Stryd tries to claim they are correct, and that the treadmill slips every step, but my RPE agrees with the 920/treadmill, not the stryd. It actually discourages me from running on zwift.

Strava I Instagram I Team Every Man Jack I PM me for 25% off discount code at everymanjack.com
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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I don't sync my stryd to my 920xt for speed, so I don't know how it compares, but I will say that when running on Zwift my RPE also indicates to me that Zwift is slower than what I'm actually running. However, when I calculate my Velocity/Watts for inside and outside runs, it comes out pretty much the same despite what my RPE is telling me. I've always chalked this up to putting out power on the treadmill is harder than running outside, much the same way I can put out more power on the bike outside then on the trainer (by HR and RPE).
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Hi All,

You may notice that the speed from Stryd is different than the speed on your treadmill display. This is completely normal and expected. The speed display on the treadmill is telling you the average speed of the treadmill belt, rather than your speed as a runner. The belt will slow down when you land and accelerate when you take off (which causes the difference between average belt pace and runner pace). Please read our article Mysterious Treadmill Pace? for why these two values are different.

As you will see below, Stryd's reported pace and distance will be a far better representation of your true running speed.

Why is this case?

You can read more about why this is the case here Mysterious Treadmill Pace? and here http://fellrnr.com/...dmill_Problems



Why is this important for runners?



Stryd bridges the gap between indoor and outdoor running for the first time. You can directly compare your running intensity from outdoors and bring it indoors to create a seamless training plan. This knowledge helps improve run training because runners can consistently improve and measure their performance year round.



Why does it feel harder to run on the treadmill?



While running at the same pace, running indoors can feel more difficult compared to outdoor running.

- Heat builds up around the body quicker because there is less airflow indoors
- Some runners are not well adapted to run on the indoor surface compared to the outdoor running surface, which can increase the RPE of the runner
- The treadmill surface is jerky. The treadmill belt is constantly slowing down and then speeding back up which will cause your body to engage extra muscles.

Why should you use power on the treadmill instead of pace on the treadmill?

As you can tell, it is hard to dial in on an exact pace while running on the treadmill. You should treat the speed dial on the treadmill as an intensity selector. If you are not reaching the proper power target, you should increase the intensity on the treadmill. If you are too high, you should dial down the intensity.



How can I very this is the case?

We recommend that you perform as verification test as described by this article: https://fellrnr.com/wiki/Stryd#Treadmill_Problems

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Best,
Angus
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [endurancealex1] [ In reply to ]
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This probably doesn't have any impact on your situation, but...

I use a Garmin footpod and Garmin watch almost daily on the same treadmill on lunch break at work. I've learned that I can alter the pace displayed on the watch (via the footpod) by changing the location of the footpod on my shoe.

The footpod was calibrated when it was in a neutral/normal/mid-foot location. Assume I don't recalibrate the pod and set the treadmill to the exact same speed every day. If I move the pod closer to my toe one day, it displays 15 sec/mile faster than "normal." Moving it closer to my ankle the next day results in about 15 sec/mile slower than normal.

I only mention all of this because you indicated you swapped shoes. Maybe the Stryd acts similar to the Garmin pod when it's moved.
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [StrydAngus] [ In reply to ]
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ive been using a stryd for a while and overall i think the idea of running with power is garbage as this thing is all over the place power wise, and its speed is never accurate.

it has turned into a very expensive but accurate cadence meter for me while running on zwift.

2019 Schedule: Ironman 70.3 Texas April 7 & Ironman 7.03 Waco Oct 27
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
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damon.lebeouf wrote:
ive been using a stryd for a while and overall i think the idea of running with power is garbage as this thing is all over the place power wise, and its speed is never accurate.

it has turned into a very expensive but accurate cadence meter for me while running on zwift.


Agreed. Looking past the marketing BS, the pod doesn't actually measure power like a cycling PM, it's all "calculations". Even if it's reliable, it doesn't mean it's accurate. With cycling, your feet are locked in doing the same motion over and over. The power measured is literally the effort you are exerting and can be easy to train by. With running, so much can change a calculated reading. Form (such as when you get tired your form changes, or if your glutes are tight or if you have a blister on your foot and you're landing on a different part of your foot to aggravate it less), terrain (going uphill puts you on your toes, downhill on your heels), treadmill running vs outside, etc. If I'm running at 280W at the beginning of a race, that 280W at the end of a race might be slower due to my form breaking down.

Racing with power doesn't make sense either. Most people want to run a certain time. If you want to run a 3:00 half marathon and BQ, you need to run 6:52 miles. 280W for 26.2 miles doesn't qualify you for Boston. 3:00 does. And to my point above about form, 280W at mile 5 might be 6:50 pace and be fine. 280W at mile 22 might be 7:10 pace. It also doesn't account for hills in a race plan -- for example, the Phoenix marathon I ran a few weeks back drops 800' or so the first half. If I were to run by some arbitrary power number, my quads would have been absolutely trashed by 13 miles. Instead, I ran at my goal pace, felt great chilling on the downhills and ended up negative splitting the 2nd half of the race.

Of course, that leads the question of what the point of power during training is too -- If I need to run 6:52 pace for 26.2 miles, then I need to make that pace feel easy. This means I need to run tempo runs slightly faster than M pace, not 300W for 45 minutes.

The whole thing seems like another added metric, just like vertical oscillation, Garmin's "training effort" and whatever else they come up with.

In the end, running is one of the most basic sports with the goal of getting from point A to point B faster than either you have before or faster than your competitors are. All these other metrics are "fun" data, but aren't going to drastically change training or racing when your goals are to run fast.

I have a bike power meter and love it. I'm also a former sub-elite marathoner and have helped coach a number of people over the years as well. I just don't see the two overlapping and being of much use to those serious about the sport.
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
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damon.lebeouf wrote:
ive been using a stryd for a while and overall i think the idea of running with power is garbage as this thing is all over the place power wise, and its speed is never accurate.

it has turned into a very expensive but accurate cadence meter for me while running on zwift.

I've heard enough people say this that I don't doubt that its happening. But it's just not my experience at all. When I run, both outside and on treadmill with zwift, the power and speed are very consistent. I've used the power to pace a 5k and I thought it worked real well. When I set speeds on my treadmill, I know what power that will equate to, and it does every time (within a couple watts). Not sure why it's been so different for me, but I like running with power.
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [MRid] [ In reply to ]
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MRid wrote:
damon.lebeouf wrote:
ive been using a stryd for a while and overall i think the idea of running with power is garbage as this thing is all over the place power wise, and its speed is never accurate.

it has turned into a very expensive but accurate cadence meter for me while running on zwift.


I've heard enough people say this that I don't doubt that its happening. But it's just not my experience at all. When I run, both outside and on treadmill with zwift, the power and speed are very consistent. I've used the power to pace a 5k and I thought it worked real well. When I set speeds on my treadmill, I know what power that will equate to, and it does every time (within a couple watts). Not sure why it's been so different for me, but I like running with power.

im def glad some like the metric, use it, and the stryd works for them. to me it seems like the product may be super buggy and inconsistent.

2019 Schedule: Ironman 70.3 Texas April 7 & Ironman 7.03 Waco Oct 27
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
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Hi caverunner17,

Thanks for your post.

I think I can help clear up a few points.

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the pod doesn't actually measure power like a cycling PM, it's all "calculations". Even if it's reliable, it doesn't mean it's accurate.

The inner workings of Stryd vs a cycling power meter are very similar. Bike power meters combine force and velocity to reach a power value. Stryd combines acceleration with mass to reach a power value. Technically, neither product is measuring power. Both calculate it using components of power.

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Even if it's reliable, it doesn't mean it's accurate.

Please see our internal validation here: https://storage.googleapis.com/...etric-validation.pdf

Please see one example of third party validation here: https://thesecretofrunning.com/category/columns-2/
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With cycling, your feet are locked in doing the same motion over and over. The power measured is literally the effort you are exerting and can be easy to train by. With running, so much can change a calculated reading. Form (such as when you get tired your form changes, or if your glutes are tight or if you have a blister on your foot and you're landing on a different part of your foot to aggravate it less), terrain (going uphill puts you on your toes, downhill on your heels), treadmill running vs outside, etc.


We agree. Mechanical power is not the most useful measure for athletes to train by. Metabolic power is more useful, which is what Stryd correlates with.

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If I'm running at 280W at the beginning of a race, that 280W at the end of a race might be slower due to my form breaking down.


We agree. Stryd factors in the form component when reporting power.

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Most people want to run a certain time. If you want to run a 3:00 half marathon and BQ, you need to run 6:52 miles. 280W for 26.2 miles doesn't qualify you for Boston. 3:00 does.

The idea of running power is to race to your threshold over a given time period/distance. If my capability dictates that I can maximally hold 300 watts over 3:00, I will run at 300 watts for 3:00. If the course is hilly, I may only finish 25.1 miles. If the course is flat, I may be able to run 26.2 miles.

The course plays a major role in finishing time.

If my goal was to run a 3:00 marathon on a hilly course, I will work to raise my power target so that I can cover 26.2 miles in that time.

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If I were to run by some arbitrary power number
Power targets are typically based on a power duration curve or a critical power value. It is absolutely necessary, as it is in cycling, to choose a reasonable power target based on personal capability.

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And to my point above about form, 280W at mile 5 might be 6:50 pace and be fine. 280W at mile 22 might be 7:10 pace.
Fatigue plays a major role in running. You cannot run the same speed when fatigued. You must back off your pace and run to your metabolic capability. So, this makes perfect sense to me and it is a major reason why runners like Stryd.

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It also doesn't account for hills in a race plan -- for example, the Phoenix marathon I ran a few weeks back drops 800' or so the first half.

This is analogous to cycling. Some cyclists can hold higher power targets on certain inclines compared to flat ground. Some cyclists will refuse to put out too much power on downhills due to safety concerns. You need to go off of personal capability when setting power targets based on the demands of the race course.
Please let me know if you have any questions.

Best,
Angus & the Stryd Team
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Damon,

I have sent you an email. I feel that there is something wrong in this case that we can help fix.
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [StrydAngus] [ In reply to ]
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There's a huge difference between the accuracy of running power and cycling power (direct measurement). My 4iii power meter is within a few watts of the Garmin vector pods I borrowed, which is within a few watts of my friend's Kicker trainer. There might be a +/- a few percent, but they're all pretty close. This means that the power measurements are accurate. Direct force is essentially a strain gauge that is consistent time over time.


The Stryd pod, the Garmin Power setup and the RunScribe pods all provide different power numbers. This would say that each is attempting to calculate the number slightly differently. Someone attempting to develop plans based on power would be having to rely on that individual's unit. Each system is going to vary and even each unit could vary (depending on where on the shoe it is located, which foot, etc). However, what matters most is that the number is repetitive for the same user.


--Fatigue plays a major role in running. You cannot run the same speed when fatigued. You must back off your pace and run to your metabolic capability. So, this makes perfect sense to me and it is a major reason why runners like Stryd.


I disagree completely. If this was the case world record efforts (or near WR efforts) would have a large positive splits as everybody fatigues during the course of a race.


Personally, I look at my PR marathon (2:33) and miles 2-26 were between 5:44 and 6:00. I was absolutely more fatigued the last 5 miles of the race as I fell off of the group I was running with and was running solo. Increasing my power output by say 20W (made up) allowed me to finish at the same pace with a huge PR. Athletes can run above set levels under certain circumstances. Had I run with the same power I was running with at mile 16 at mile 22, I would not have run a 2:33.


Now, I presume your response is going to be one of two things: Given I was able to in theory output more power at mile 22-26 than I did at the first part of the race, you're going to say that I should have run the first 21 miles faster to keep the same baseline power. That would have more than likely made me fall off the pack sooner than I did -- or, I would have been running by myself as I would have been ahead of the group I was with. The other response could be that I went out the first 22 too hard as I was fatiged. Well sure, I could have gone slower, but then I would have finished slower too.


To that point, running on small hills with higher power might be just fine too -- running with another 50W for 40 seconds at a consistent paces followed by a downhill to recover might be just fine and a net zero impact. But if I keep the same power and it takes me 50s to get up the hill and now my group is 40 yards ahead of me, I've now got to work the downhill to catch back up (rubber band effect).


-- If my goal was to run a 3:00 marathon on a hilly course, I will work to raise my power target so that I can cover 26.2 miles in that time.


So what is that number to adjust then? How do I know what my wattage for 26.2 miles at Chicago should be vs my wattage for 26.2 miles at the Denver Colfax Marathon should be (which is much hillier). If I don't know what my hypothetical wattage is for that course on that day, how do I train to reach that? What I do know I need to run 6:52 pace to qualify no matter the course.


What I'm getting at is that people need to run their race and not be obsessed with a power number. It's the same thing with cycling. If you think that a pro rider is not going to make a move with the peleton because it pushed him up an additional 50W for 5 minutes, then he probably wouldn't be a pro rider for much longer. If Galen Rupp has to throw down a 4:25 mile at mile 21 in the middle of Boston to keep in medal positioning, he's going to do that.


In the end, it's another neat metric. Just like HR, cadence, vertical oscillation, etc, etc, etc. You go to Africa and look at the world's fastest runners. Look at the photos of their training camps. Many of them aren't even wearing a watch. If things like power numbers were really that important for running, Nike would have a pod on every single one of their elite athletes. But they don't. And to me, that speaks more volume than anything else. But, each to their own.
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Re: Stryd pace vs. Garmin foot pod pace vs Treadmill pace with Fenix 5 [caverunner17] [ In reply to ]
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The Stryd pod, the Garmin Power setup and the RunScribe pods all provide different power numbers. This would say that each is attempting to calculate the number slightly differently. Someone attempting to develop plans based on power would be having to rely on that individual's unit. Each system is going to vary and even each unit could vary (depending on where on the shoe it is located, which foot, etc). However, what matters most is that the number is repetitive for the same user.

Stryd is the only run power meter with third party validation.

I can show you inaccurate bike power meters but that does not make the accurate meters any less so.

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If this was the case world record efforts (or near WR efforts) would have a large positive splits as everybody fatigues during the course of a race.

My statement does not imply this.

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So what is that number to adjust then? How do I know what my wattage for 26.2 miles at Chicago should be vs my wattage for 26.2 miles at the Denver Colfax Marathon should be (which is much hillier). If I don't know what my hypothetical wattage is for that course on that day, how do I train to reach that?

I would start with a Steve Palladino's webinar on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be

Essentially, it comes down to defining the course's variability and your running effectiveness.

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What I'm getting at is that people need to run their race and not be obsessed with a power number. It's the same thing with cycling. If you think that a pro rider is not going to make a move with the peleton because it pushed him up an additional 50W for 5 minutes, then he probably wouldn't be a pro rider for much longer. If Galen Rupp has to throw down a 4:25 mile at mile 21 in the middle of Boston to keep in medal positioning, he's going to do that.

Power meters have different usage cases in elite strategic races compared to personal optimal pacing efforts.
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You go to Africa and look at the world's fastest runners. Look at the photos of their training camps. Many of them aren't even wearing a watch. If things like power numbers were really that important for running, Nike would have a pod on every single one of their elite athletes. But they don't. And to me, that speaks more volume than anything else. But, each to their own.

Elite Nike athletes do wear Stryd. Go look at public photos on Instagram.
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