Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cabdoctor wrote:
Does this hold true for all noseless saddles? I'm currently on an SMP dynamic on all my bikes and I've been having a hard time finding and fitting a noseless saddle because either they are too wide or the narrower models have too narrow of a channel.

I would say it holds true for triathletes on a shorter type of noseless saddle. So, a triathlete on an ISM PR 2.0, PR 1.0, PS 1.1, Cobb Fifty Five, Fizik Mistica, Selle Italia Iron Flow, etc., where the saddle overall length is less than 240mm and you are positioned in front of the saddle rather than on it, rails level, a little low, and a couple of inches back is going to at least be a good starting point. A roadie who is a bit more upright (relative to a tri position), but like the longer ISMs like the PL 1.0, PN 1.5, Cobb Randee (which I consider kind of a hybrid between a traditional saddle and a noseless) because of the cutout aspect rather than the noseless aspect, is going to be a different starting point. They will start out closer to level, maybe more on top, but still down a little lower relative to a traditional saddle.

Your SMP Dynamic is certainly a different, well, uh, dynamic. Aside from looking like something designed by Salvador Dali, the SMPs are very interesting from a fitting perspective (SQlab saddles are, too - they just cradle the pelvis differently, and can be very hit or miss, but are certainly worth trying). Do you have any specific issues with the Dynamic, or are you just trying some different things to see if there is something better?

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Alex2204] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have been contemplating switching my measuring technique to use a standard width like 70 or 75mm like that for a while, but have just not had the time to figure out how to adapt my processes and measurements accordingly. To me it makes a lot of sense - what drives your saddle position is not your saddle - it's a reaction to what feels good to your body. Your feet, pelvis, and hands/elbows have a happy place in space, and we put the appropriate contact points of the bike underneath those anatomical places in a way so they support that happy place in space.

In that happy place, the pelvis doesn't move relative to the feet and hands, you might have to position different saddles differently to maintain that anatomical relationship while finding the one that provides the best support (best being a combination of factors like comfort, stability, lack of restriction of movement, etc.). Since the one real constant for the specific rider here is the pelvic width, using a width measurement like that makes sense in my mind. You'll likely more naturally line up with a certain width on each saddle you try than the center of the saddle fore-aft, which may vary greatly as far as the width goes.

I measure pelvic width as part of my body measurements using the SQlab bench (aka "assometer"). It's only one parameter of many that will help suggest what saddle is comfortable for someone. The average pelvic width is 11.8cm for males and 12.8cm for females. I've measured adults from 9cm to 16.5cm wide. The person with that 16.5cm pelvis is the tricky one - they need the width or they are on nothing but soft tissue, making for an unstable, problematic seating arrangement. If we use the 75mm measuring standard, at least we know that they will likely sit further back relative to where the 75mm wide point is on the saddle, depending on how wide the saddle gets. This is also where finding that anatomical center is more useful than just going off of the width - I've had people with narrow pelvises prefer the wide version of a saddle while others with wide pelvises prefer the narrower version. Pelvic width, by itself, doesn't account for other anatomical bits like diameter of the thigh, or even the distance between the lesser trochanters, as a function of hip width.

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BigBoyND wrote:
How is a "good" saddle match defined? I get small saddle sores on the trainer with my PN3.1 while using BodyGlide/DZNuts and have to move around occasionally, but probably spend less than 5 minutes out of a 3 hour ride sitting up. Some discomfort and sores are there, but not enough to require stopping. In an IM I can stay in aero the whole time aside from when I grab bottles in aid stations.

I can't decide whether the sores are enough reason to try the Mistica. Is "good fit" defined as almost no discomfort and zero saddle sores? Or is what I have as good as it gets?

Was it Ferdinand Porsche or Enzo Ferrari who said the perfect race car is the one that wins the race and blows up right after crossing the finish line? I think I have that quote all screwed up, but basically the "good" saddle match is the one that will support you comfortably for whatever distance you ride. From your text above that I bolded, it sounds like you're doing OK!

On the flip side, you also have some soft tissue issues going on (saddle sores). You can take the "suck it up and tough it out" approach along with a bit of lube to overcome the saddle. But, in mind, saddle sores are something beyond just the saddle - the saddle surfaces might be mating up with your body surfaces OK from a static pressure perspective, but the movement could be excessive, and therefore more dynamic. The saddle could be a bit high, causing more pelvic rock, which causes more friction in specific spots. Or it could be a core stability issue - not necessarily that you are not stable - just not quite stable enough. There could be a host of other things, too.

Do the saddle sores happen primarily on one side?

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Specialized generally does do pretty well with their saddle designs. Unfortunately, because I am an independent fitter and not a Spesh dealer, I can't get their stuff in the shop to allow more people to try them. So, my experience with Specialized saddles has been when people come in with one on their bike. The couple of local Specialized dealers around here have their own fitters, so I see a smaller percentage of new Specialized bikes. I have yet to see a Mimic in person.

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Travis R wrote:
Was it Ferdinand Porsche or Enzo Ferrari who said the perfect race car is the one that wins the race and blows up right after crossing the finish line? I think I have that quote all screwed up, but basically the "good" saddle match is the one that will support you comfortably for whatever distance you ride. From your text above that I bolded, it sounds like you're doing OK!

On the flip side, you also have some soft tissue issues going on (saddle sores). You can take the "suck it up and tough it out" approach along with a bit of lube to overcome the saddle. But, in mind, saddle sores are something beyond just the saddle - the saddle surfaces might be mating up with your body surfaces OK from a static pressure perspective, but the movement could be excessive, and therefore more dynamic. The saddle could be a bit high, causing more pelvic rock, which causes more friction in specific spots. Or it could be a core stability issue - not necessarily that you are not stable - just not quite stable enough. There could be a host of other things, too.

Do the saddle sores happen primarily on one side?

Thanks that is good insight as I didn't think of stability as a potential culprit. I do make sure to use lube every ride and I don't always get the sore. When I do, it shows up just off-center to one side, the same side every time.
Quote Reply
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
" I've seen a few that have had maybe 3000-5000 miles on them and they are holding up well."
-----------------------

Travis,

First thank you for your insight and expertise in this thread. BUT, 3 - 5000 miles??!! I've got saddles with 30,000 - 50,000 miles and they are holding up well (and so is my back(under)side).

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
Quote Reply
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Travis --

I'm looking for some advice, as I don't have a fitter with a wide range of TT demo saddles and I'd like to avoid buying a dozen and trying them out at home and returning them all.

I ride the Specialized Power saddle (155mm wide version) on my road bikes, and I couldn't be happier. I just love that saddle. On my TT bike, I have a standard size Mistica now, and just don't really get along with it. I feel like my grundle is getting ground in the channel. Any thoughts on what might work best? ISM PS, PN, 55? Help.
Quote Reply
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [david] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
david wrote:
" I've seen a few that have had maybe 3000-5000 miles on them and they are holding up well."
-----------------------

Travis,

First thank you for your insight and expertise in this thread. BUT, 3 - 5000 miles??!! I've got saddles with 30,000 - 50,000 miles and they are holding up well (and so is my back(under)side).

Sorry for my ridiculously slow reply - I totally missed this.

You make a very good point - 3-5,000 miles isn't necessarily a lot. But, it's the perspective I can offer based on follow-ups and long(erish) term interactions with riders. Doing what I do, I havSo, hopefully while not an ideal measure of true expectations of longevity, as much as it is me trying to be transparent about my input. I don't want to be the person saying things like, "50% of my sales of product X have been defective" when I sold 2 of product X. I hope that makes sense!

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
First off, I really appreciate your use of the word "grundle." :) That ranks pretty high in body part euphemisms!

Regarding your interaction of grundle and the Mistica, what kinds of adjustments have you tried? What were the results?

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Travis R wrote:

ISM PR 2.0 - Another one that seems to take all of the advantages of the noseless design and just works well. The padding, texture, and shape work well together. Start with the rails level and bring it up.


I hope that helps.


Travis,

I just picked up a PR2.0. I rode it for a while in 2016 and remember liking it so I got another to replace the older ISM Road I've been using. I was a bit shocked when I started riding the new 2.0 as it feels very hard, much harder than I remember. I feel like I remember it being quite squishy and comfy, but not so much anymore. Have you seen this?

Also, do you have any experience with the Pro Aerofuel? I have one and have tried it a bit but haven't found the right position.
Quote Reply
Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Travis. Nothing beats throwing "grundle" into a PG rated game of "Bowl of Nouns."

The only adjustments I've really made were tilt, which if I add more negative tilt (I have 2 deg now) I slide off the front especially when putting down big power though it seems to help with the grundle grinding. Nose up positive tilt is miserable. I haven't tried to move it fore/aft as I presume my fitter put it where it wanted it to get my knee and ankles in the right place.

I tried an ISM saddle once (I forget which model) which came on the Speedmax CF I demoed, and I remember it feeling a bit to wide at the nose and was causing theigh rub, but it didn't torture my taint terribly like the Mistica.
Last edited by: wintershade: Feb 27, 19 16:32
Quote Reply

Prev Next