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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
RUNNER86 wrote:
If this is true, I can’t tell you how relieved I am as a human, an athlete, and a gay person.
Please people can we stop making gays political... I really am a human just like you! Just cuz I like to chase hot men in wet spandex doesn’t mean I want you, I can appreciate beauty in any shape or form, and just be flattered they find you attractive instead of butt ass Fugly. Gay men are not after straight men nor do we think you can be converted... do you... maybe that’s what bothers folks is it reminds them they question their own sexuality and can’t believe someone else can be open and proud of it because they are ashamed of their own thoughts.
Now can we go back to triathlon allowing EVERYONE out there to be welcome like we are now... no matter what age, sex, size, athletic level, country, or who you love being an issue.
Again... Thank you to those folks being supportive cuz you all ROCK!!!
Come say Hello if you see me out there competing cuz you sure as hell cant miss this Ironsissy


Wouldn't it be nice if one day we could stop putting labels on everyone and pointing out the differences of colour, gender, race and sexual preference and just have everyone be humans...

That would, Unfortunately, history (very recent history) shows that when we attempt that, the discrimination goes into overdrive.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Changes and a statement from ITU over on the main area.

Maurice
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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Sooo apparently it looks like ITU has now removed this sexual orientation language from their rules on their website...
Dan Empfield at Slowtwitch is one of the most influential figures in our sport of triathlon and I can’t thank him enough for getting involved! You Sir have my utmost respect and I honor you by competing with pride for ALL!!
Hope this is true and discrimination stays out of our sport!
Last edited by: RUNNER86: Jan 21, 19 15:16
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
Changes and a statement from ITU over on the main area.


Maurice


https://www.slowtwitch.com/...From_Rules_7148.html

Karen ST Concierge
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RUNNER86] [ In reply to ]
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Ha!! I predicted it would last as long as the grand cut in line rule, but it smashed it, new record for backtracking!!!

But this is a lesson to us all really. When you go into some decision making process, and the only ones you consult are like minded, or afraid to go against the grain, then you will of course get your result, one that could be so one sided, you won't even see it at the time...
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [psychosyd] [ In reply to ]
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psychosyd wrote:
Being Gay is not a choice. Religion is.

Same as skin/hair/eye colour. You can't ban or discriminate against those and you can't (shouldn't) ban and discriminate against sexual orientation. The world stage is the place to be open about it. The world stage is where this sort of statement belongs.

Agreed. I could see an argument against religion being a choice. Many devout would argue you either are or aren't a believer, and a lot has to do with how strict one is brought up. Political opinions are definitely a choice. Both are protected and shouldn't be discriminated against. I actually don't think anything should be discriminated against.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Hello RowToTri and All,

Thanks for starting this post .... this discussion turned out well ...

It appears Slowman affected the outcome despite his modest: "i don't make the news, michael, i just report it"

In any event Chapeau! to all.

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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I think Dan is being humble... there couldn’t be a bigger influence in all of triathlon....

coming from another longtime athlete and follower of this sport since we were kids.
Last edited by: RUNNER86: Jan 21, 19 16:18
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
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scott8888 wrote:
Yeeper wrote:
Toby wrote:
Yeeper wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
Yeeper wrote:


So this whole thing is a bit of a double standard if its acceptable to suppress religious and political demonstrations but its oppressive if the LGBTQ can't. Why are their exceptions to the protected? <-- this is where I think most people scratch their heads.


one of these things is VERY different from the other two... think about it.


You're right, religion is the only federally protected class in that lineup. LGBTQ can be covered under Civil Rights Acts and Political affiliation discrimination is defensible legally as well. But religion is federally protected for us in the US.

If one is more protected than the others then I don't know that and I genuinely don't know how to tell that. Which is why I said that may be a different discussion. Im playing devil's advocate. Why should sexual orientation be given a free pass over religious or political statements? Thats what needs answering for people who don't see an issue with this rule change.


That matters, but not in the direction that you think it does.


I've clearly stated my stance on this. I hate that this has to even be an issue. But in playing devils advocate, I've gotten two of these cryptic responses. Those in opposition to this new rule amendment are not making a strong argument.

With regards to LGBTQ being allowed to make statements, but not religion or politics, please tell me in which way it matters then?

EricM told me they are VERY different and I should think about it. Rather than telling me. I'm asking legitimate questions because its really easy to see how one class is getting a pass while others are not. If I could see that then I wouldn't be posing the question. This is why I can understand those who don't have an issue with the new amendment.


Let me try and address your point as I see where you are coming from.

Why the ITU needs the rule to say anything more than 'athletes need to avoid any kind of demonstration of propoganda'? Doesn't that cover everything? Why add words like political or racial? I don't know the answer but by specifying political, racial, religious and sexual orientation you are singling out those aspects and lumping them together as bad. Gender propoganda, food propaganda (think vegans vs keto-diet), climate change propaganda, etc. that stuff is all OK according to the ITU. So what is about race, politics, religion and sexual orientation that are uniquely bad? More to the point what about sexual orientation necessitates its inclusion as needing to be specifically banned?

What myself and others are angry about is not that LGBTQ issues are being put on level footing with to religious or political issues. The anger is direct at the need to designated LGBTQ issues as 'bad' in the first palce. A coherent argument needs to be presented for why each activity is banned and we don't feel that argument can be justified for sexual orientation.

The simple solution is to replace the word propoganda with prejudice. The law should read 'athletes need to avoid any kind of demonstration of religious, political, sexual identity or racial prejudice.' In fact this could be a big win for the ITU as it would position itself as a defender of equality.

Thanks for this. Its actually much more straightforward than anything else Ive read. Thinking along those lines, I could see a coherent argument made against political stands. But I don't think I can find any that justify religious ones. Unless as people say, religion and politics are choices, while sexual orientation and race are not?
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Yeeper wrote:
This whole thing begs the question, "What is it about the LGBTQ community that should allow them more freedom in the rules than other discriminated classes?"


thank you for asking that question. we've been answering that question intermittently in this thread. what we need is for you to read what we're saying, so that you can answer that question.

Dan, congratulations on getting the change! I don't feel like beating a dead horse here. The point seems moot now, but more importantly I'm relieved a number of you don't have to have this added frustration. Thanks again.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RUNNER86] [ In reply to ]
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I did not vote for the orange one.(or HRC) I have left many selections blank in the past.. I mostly like to keep personal beliefs and political stuff separate from sports. The other poster stated I probably dont have anyone close to me affected by the issue and he is correct about that and its probably why I have no passion or strong opinions on the issue. I actually am surprised by the fervor of support on the issue here i really had no idea it was that important to that many.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Toby] [ In reply to ]
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It's not about you. Read that again: it's not about you. It's so that other LGBTQ people realize they're not alone. You don't need to worry about it.

I'll accept that answer as long as there is no gay sex party at the finish line they can whatever they want.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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Yeeper wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Yeeper wrote:
This whole thing begs the question, "What is it about the LGBTQ community that should allow them more freedom in the rules than other discriminated classes?"


thank you for asking that question. we've been answering that question intermittently in this thread. what we need is for you to read what we're saying, so that you can answer that question.


Dan, congratulations on getting the change! I don't feel like beating a dead horse here. The point seems moot now, but more importantly I'm relieved a number of you don't have to have this added frustration. Thanks again.

well, it's not really my frustration. i'm the old straight white guy. the trick is to understand, as empathetically as we can, the frustrations of people who aren't old, straight, white and male. somebody put it well earlier in the thread, when he said the thing is not to just accept the status quo. it's easy to accept the status quo when you're not the person at the wrong end of justice. funny that this is coming up today, on MLK day.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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That’s the point... it shouldn’t matter in sport nor society for that matter. Triathlon has always been a place where I’m just seen as another athlete and it should stay that way for every athlete out there. The point I was making was that there are bumper stickers, advertising, and other things at races that people find Offensive but an inclusive flag should not be one of them
I also am very surprised by the response and support on here but am very thankful, grateful, and even more proud to be an athlete in the Triathlon Family. Thank you again to all those on here and writing to whomever to help change this. I can only hope that society will see the gay community as equals sometime before I take my last breath.
Happy Rainbows Everyone!
Last edited by: RUNNER86: Jan 21, 19 18:06
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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Gonefishin5555 wrote:
It's not about you. Read that again: it's not about you. It's so that other LGBTQ people realize they're not alone. You don't need to worry about it.

I'll accept that answer as long as there is no gay sex party at the finish line they can whatever they want.

The stereotype I would like to see ended in my lifetime is that gays want to "gay sex party" 24/7.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RUNNER86] [ In reply to ]
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RUNNER86 wrote:
I also know a BIG race company that displays the rainbow flag along with all country flags from around the world at their races... is that a political statement or to let EVERYONE know they are included?
THANK YOU CHALLENGE FAMILY EVENTS AND RACE DIRECTORS
For including EVERYONE and especially for the extra attention and comfort you have given me personally at many of your races around the World!

To add to your point, I instantly think of a vast number of restaurants in multitudes of cities that display the rainbow flags/stickers in their front windows. Their purpose of displaying the rainbow flag is to let all persons know they are safe and welcome inside. The rainbow flag has never been a political symbol. If anyone thinks otherwise, they need to educate themselves. If anyone understands anything about being oppressed, carrying a symbol like the rainbow flag is meant to unite and help others who struggle feel welcome and not alone.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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The most fascinating and confusing statement of all was ITU's remarks...

"Officials attached to the ITU, and to its daughter federations, wrote privately over the weekend expressing their dismay. It's unclear how or why whom this rule text was inserted."

I am relieved to know officials took issue with the rule change and spoke up. But how the hell do they not know that someone made the rule change and they have no clue who is responsible? smh and moving on ~ faith in humanity restored.
Last edited by: Trigirl357: Jan 21, 19 20:23
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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Gonefishin5555 wrote:
A lot of us are fine just doing a triathlon without being required to attend a political rally or an equal rights protest at the finish line. Can someone explain to me why I have to be made aware of someone’s sexual preference as they cross the finish line. It’s important to them but I could care less. I read the swimmer story on that website and he finally came out and guess what he learned....nobody really cared cause they already knew.
You realise that the text I've highlighted means you do in fact care somewhat?
Maybe that's what you wanted to say? however, I suspect you meant "I don't care" or "I couldn't care less".
Why has everyone switched from saying "I couldn't care less" to I could care less" and they think it means the same thing? Words have meanings, it's not difficult! Same thing with regardless and irregardless - nonsense!

Okay, that might seem off topic, but I'm not so sure. Western society (maybe it's worldwide but I'm not in a position to say) seems to have taken a bit of a U-turn in the last few years. Decades of progress towards more balanced, informed, fair and rational thought has given way to gut reactions and extreme positions that people then attempt to justify retrospectively, ignoring any information that doesn't agree with the position they already adopted. It's all about pride, willful ignorance, selfishness, laziness and a willingness to accept assertion and perception as fact without critical examination.
Maybe you'll think I'm crazy but I think blindness to the actual meaning of your words is a symptom.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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Trigirl357 wrote:
The most fascinating and confusing statement of all was ITU's remarks...

"Officials attached to the ITU, and to its daughter federations, wrote privately over the weekend expressing their dismay. It's unclear how or why whom this rule text was inserted."

I am relieved to know officials took issue with the rule change and spoke up. But how the hell do they not know that someone made the rule change and they have no clue who is responsible? smh and moving on ~ faith in humanity restored.

Russian hackers? Or the modern excuse for any ill-advised social media post: "Uh, I was hacked! Yeah, that's the ticket.".

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [ripple] [ In reply to ]
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ripple wrote:
Yep, sounds like enforcement of an existing rule to prevent political posturing at their events. Unless you're one of those that have to get your underwear wadded up about everything, there's not much to see here.

Exactly!
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RUNNER86] [ In reply to ]
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RUNNER86 wrote:
Being gay is not political.... heterosexuals with crazy religious views want it to be

Look at what you just posted. Could it be left leaning people have made it political? Or maybe atheist made it political based on your comment? Of course you could be one of those people who need a safe space because everything offends you especially anyone or any organization that disagree with you?

The point being...... If there wasn't any sense of politics with this issue this entire thread wouldn't exist in the fist place.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RUNNER86] [ In reply to ]
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you are asking people to stop making gay political, but you proceed to tell GONEFISHIN5555 to go back to his MAGA sticker, without even knowing him or which POLITICAL party he supports.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [hairypiernas] [ In reply to ]
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All y'all are embarrassing this forum and thread. You need to come into the Lavender Room.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Scottxs] [ In reply to ]
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Scottxs wrote:
RUNNER86 wrote:
Being gay is not political.... heterosexuals with crazy religious views want it to be


Look at what you just posted. Could it be left leaning people have made it political? Or maybe atheist made it political based on your comment? Of course you could be one of those people who need a safe space because everything offends you especially anyone or any organization that disagree with you?

The point being...... If there wasn't any sense of politics with this issue this entire thread wouldn't exist in the fist place.

The only reason sexual orientation is political is because some people have decided to use the political system to strip LGBTQ people of their rights. If people did not do that, it would not be political. Full stop.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [trail] [ In reply to ]
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not sure they have the critical thinking ability for the Lavender Room...

trail wrote:
All y'all are embarrassing this forum and thread. You need to come into the Lavender Room.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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