The main gripe against the mass start is primarily for the lower CAT races (B-D). It kind of takes all the strategy out of it, as the only strategy is to hold the fastest A-group you can until the finish. Whereas, in a CAT specific start, you get lead and chase groups of similar abilities which allow for some tactics (team attacks, things like that). I’m pretty much good either way, especially since I’m MOP B at best, but all things considered I prefer the separated starts.
this, especially when the group has 60 plus riders, and one has to weave through them just to get to the front.
The hard part for us in deciding whether or not to do separate starts was that B/C/D races wanted to race with the next grade up at the same time because it gives them the opportunity to work beyond their category…race with the “big dogs†whether that’s B cat for Cs, or A cat for Bs.
It is fun to push yourself past what you think you’re capable of, and that’s exactly how I got better—holding on for dear life as a B until I was an A.
We can take a poll of the Zwift community ahead of next race on Facebook to see what racers prefer—we aren’t attached to any set format, just want the people who race MGF to have a great time!
B/C/D races wanted to race with the next grade up at the same time because it gives them the opportunity to work beyond their category
Don’t they have the option of self-selecting into a higher category start if that’s what they want on a given day? Kind of like how I ended up accidentally in the “A” category yesterday for my first MGF ride.
Also, I recognize that I’m very new to Zwift (2 real rides, MGF yesterday and Slowtwitch this morning) but I for one did not enjoy the mix start. This morning I correctly put my self in the “D” group where I should be but almost immediately I had no idea where I was relative to most of my other “D” peeps. Sure I had some around me but I could never figure out if we were the front, middle or back of the “D” riders. Throw into the equation that there were many “C” riders around us much of the time and that added to my confusion. This morning wasn’t a race but I can imagine my frustration being even higher in an actual race.
I think your thoughts are valid, and as people come to the platform they’re going to be thinking the same thing–so it’s healthy to discuss it!
I don’t know the right answer for how to start races, but having been racing in the game for multiple years I think I have a good view of the differences. I think there’s something different about the “mass start” versus “self-seeding” into a higher category. It’s a more organic decision to “cat up” if it’s a mass start–you might feel stronger on a given day and more willing to suffer/sit in with a higher cat. If the races are separate, self-seeded starts, then the decision to “cat up” is basically accepting that you’re going to be in for a sufferfest.
I’m not sure if I explained that well, but I think psychologically I’d be a little more timid to “self-seed” myself into a higher category. But if I started a race and happened to find myself in the mix with higher cat riders, I may get the confidence to ride harder and push myself.
As a C/D rider I would much rather have separate starts.
It’s too easy for a strong C to hang on with the B’a for 20’… by the time they are dropped they are so far ahead it’s impossible to catch them. Same goes for a strong D hiding with the weaker C’s.
Granted, a mass start is probably more realistic if that’s what you’re going for. When I line up for a gravel race I know I’m getting dropped immediately by the guys who can avg 20+ mph so I try to find people at a similar ability level to me and ride with them. What I like about Zwift is that it has the ability to take the fast guys out of the equation and results in a “cleaner†race for those of us at the back… which is something we never really get to experience in real life. It feels like we are in an actual race with a chance to win. Hopefully that makes sense.
Feel free to message me if you need any input from a back of the lack racer!
The hard part for us in deciding whether or not to do separate starts was that B/C/D races wanted to race with the next grade up at the same time because it gives them the opportunity to work beyond their category…race with the “big dogs†whether that’s B cat for Cs, or A cat for Bs.
It is fun to push yourself past what you think you’re capable of, and that’s exactly how I got better—holding on for dear life as a B until I was an A.
We can take a poll of the Zwift community ahead of next race on Facebook to see what racers prefer—we aren’t attached to any set format, just want the people who race MGF to have a great time!
thanks for putting efforts into this; really appreciate it
personally, the race is a bit early in the day for me (sounds like it’s for 5:30 CST/CDT?), and i wouldn’t be able to participate anyway
i think the main thing is that most of Zwift is ran as everyone starts altogether anyway, so that a variation in the theme would be nice
i will say though, that i felt “chain-free” on the days i hang with the A riders; similar to how i feel during the training races where i (as a cat-3) mixed it in with the cat-1 and made a difference in the race
You know I haven’t raced zwift a lot, but after reading this thread it sounds like the mass start ends up with only one actual “race,” the A race. The rest of the groups are basically just time trialing the course.
If the other groups got their own starts, then they would actually be racing and it wouldn’t be just who can put out the most w/kg. If you have small fields, then group start prob makes sense. But I think your fields are large enough to support separate starts.
You know I haven’t raced zwift a lot, but after reading this thread it sounds like the mass start ends up with only one actual “race,” the A race. The rest of the groups are basically just time trialing the course.
If the other groups got their own starts, then they would actually be racing and it wouldn’t be just who can put out the most w/kg. If you have small fields, then group start prob makes sense. But I think your fields are large enough to support separate starts.
pretty much this
it’s the reason why USAC racing is handicapped, so that most beginners won’t be rolling it in solo, as it’s a really demotivating feeling (well, except for the top contenders who broke away).
You know I haven’t raced zwift a lot, but after reading this thread it sounds like the mass start ends up with only one actual “race,” the A race. The rest of the groups are basically just time trialing the course.
If the other groups got their own starts, then they would actually be racing and it wouldn’t be just who can put out the most w/kg. If you have small fields, then group start prob makes sense. But I think your fields are large enough to support separate starts.
Replying to you, but also in reference to Echappist and toefuzz’s comments.
I agree with you 100%–most of my local buddies who race at lower cats tend to think of the racing as “TT” efforts (and that’s how their power data looks).
Separate starts if the fields are large enough does make more sense and let racers participate completely in their own race, and actually win their category more outright. Not just by losing a B cat bunch sprint but being the top C racer.
FYI - I did a race this morning that A-D groups. However, they separated the starts by 1 min each. It was really nice knowing that everyone around me was also a D (36 riders). After about a half mile at the start of hard riding things settled down into a nice lead group of 10 or so. I was holding steady until I had a tough time with the high winds. High winds in my area blew the door to the garage open and I had to jump off to close the door to prevent the cat from wandering off. I lost the lead group of course and settled in with a smaller group for the final couple of laps.
Wait, high winds ruined your online race? That’s so funny.
could be worse; high wind could knock down a few power, cable, and/or optic fiber lines. happened where I was living last year. No internet for 3 and 2 days, and had to use phone tethering
Hey all! We’ve announced all the details about the next season of this race series—The Morning Grind Fondo!
Details can be found here: Instagram & Facebook
We will have two leagues to accommodate all of the Continental US “morning†racers!! 5:45 AM EST and 5:05 AM PST!
We will have 12 races starting Wednesday February 6th, and continuing every Wednesday for 12 weeks! Choose a league and come race! The best 9 scores in the league you choose will count towards your total score.
The winner of each category will be place in a drawing for the awards! (8 first place winners).
If you’re a D racer, you could walk away with NormaTec boots or SBRrocker Plate after 9 races. I don’t think that’s possible anywhere else! This is a free to enter race series on Zwift.
Expect that the competition will be fierce!! I can guarantee you come out the other side of the series a stronger cyclist and that you’ll form rivalries and friends in your category.