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Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX
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Howdy Y’all,

Ian Murray here - fit instructor at both the Slowtwitch F.I.S.T. bike fit school and at the Guru Academy.

I’ve created this thread in a Canyon endorsed capacity to help prescribe the proper Speedmax for you: not just the size of bike, but the front-end configuration as well. That means the length of stem, shape of base bar, amount of arm pad pedestal, etc. to make the Canyon you buy the best it can be.

I’m not the one to answer questions about availability, nor do all manner of customer service, handle warranty issues, nor be a suggestion box about colors and whatnot – but I can and will deliver on fit. I’m not the best guy to this by the way. David (cyclenutnz) is better. Dan (slowman) is better too, but both those guys are too damn busy, so the task has fallen to me – and, frankly, I’m stoked. At the 2017 Kona Expo, I did nearly 40 Canyon Speedmax Sizing fits in 2 days and it was a joy.

If you are looking to buy a Canyon Speedmax and you want to make sure you get the right size, touch base right here on this thread. Best practices are for you to post your Pad Y, Pad X (AKA Pad Stack, Pad Reach) and I will prescribe the proper Speedmax for you. If you don’t know your Pad Y & Pad X then let me assist you in identifying those coordinates.

Happy to help, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I'll bite.
Stack-635
Reach-580
Saddle setback 7cm behind BB- ism PN 3.0
Crank 155

Height 5"11

😁
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Fishbum wrote:
I'll bite.
Stack-635
Reach-580
Saddle setback 7cm behind BB- ism PN 3.0
Crank 155

Height 5"11

😁


I'm not Ian, but I'll go out on a limb and say you are not going to get a pad X of 580mm on any bike with an integrated front end. And at 5'11" sitting -7 on an ISM, you're just weird. You need a classic P3, 56cm with a 14cm stem and some super fore and aft adjustable bars.

I'd like to see a photo of the position though. I'm 5'11", ride a 155 crank, ISM saddle at -2cm, with a Pad X of 550 and I am really stretched. You're talking about roughly 3 more inches off (saddle to pad) "reach".


3 Months of Paradigm Shifting Swim Instruction for Cheap // Your Professional & Private “Critique my Fit”

The Swim Help Compilation Thread

Last edited by: FindinFreestyle: Nov 21, 18 18:52
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Fishbum,

580 is long. If that's a typo LMK, if it's correct than you're good for a Canyon Speedmax size large with the long stem (85mm) + the TSP (Team Switch Plate) in the forward position. That's to satisfy your 580 of Pad Reach. Then for your Pad Stack of 635 you'd use the flat base bar with a single 20mm spacer + three 5mm spacers. You could also do the drop base bar with two 20mm spacers or the rise base bar with a single 5mm spacer but I think flat bar is a better choice.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Nov 22, 18 14:04
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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580 is correct.

Is that available on the cf slx?
Last edited by: Fishbum: Nov 21, 18 19:06
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Team Switch Plate huh? Never heard of him. That bike in size L is showing on the Canyon website as having a max Pad X of 513. That TSP gets another 6+cm of reach? Seems crazy, but I not calling you a liar. I do want to understand the options on this bike as I expect to start to see more of them.

Edited - Ok, I see the SLX is a much longer bike. That might actually be one of the longest integrated bikes on the market, with the long stem and fancy TSP widget. Comparable to the IA with dagger stem anyway.


3 Months of Paradigm Shifting Swim Instruction for Cheap // Your Professional & Private “Critique my Fit”

The Swim Help Compilation Thread

Last edited by: FindinFreestyle: Nov 21, 18 19:21
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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How about:
Pad reach to back of pad 490
Pad stack 596 (would be nice to have a bit of room to go lower if possible)
Saddle height 779
I like to be able to angle pads and extensions.

Thanks,
Gareth
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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Best thread ever,

Here I go:

- Reach: 470mm
- stack: 635mm

Height: 175cm
Inseam: 84
Weight: 64
Torso: 57
Shoulder: 36.5
Arm length: 60

Crank 155mm

I keep struggling between S&M...

Thank you!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:
Fishbum wrote:
I'll bite.
Stack-635
Reach-580
Saddle setback 7cm behind BB- ism PN 3.0
Crank 155

Height 5"11

😁


I'm not Ian, but I'll go out on a limb and say you are not going to get a pad X of 580mm on any bike with an integrated front end. And at 5'11" sitting -7 on an ISM, you're just weird. You need a classic P3, 56cm with a 14cm stem and some super fore and aft adjustable bars.

I'd like to see a photo of the position though. I'm 5'11", ride a 155 crank, ISM saddle at -2cm, with a Pad X of 550 and I am really stretched. You're talking about roughly 3 more inches off (saddle to pad) "reach".



https://www.finisherpix.com/...4_030370#2274_030370
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry best I can do at the moment.
Pic is from MD, seat is about 2cm further back now at 7cm behind bb, cockpit is 1 cm higher.
Im open to suggestions as I was considering getting with you or Eric for a new fit in off season.
155 crank is necessary evil for hip issue.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Dont have those measurements, but I have these! Would grab em, but I'm away from my bike a bit unfortunately.

Pad X: 136mm
extension length from center of pad to extension end is 330mm
Sitero seat up 790mm, set back is -60mm
saddle front tip to center pad is 530mm

I'm deciding between a CLX, Ventum One, and Premiere Tactical. Thanks for the help!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I'm struggling to get to 580
L frame X: 457.6
Stem x: 85
TSP max x: 27
So the maximum pad mount x is 569.6
Minimum pad offset is 51.2
Which gets us 518.4 max pad x rear
Or 558.4 pad x centre
So Dave L is fine, Fishy - depends on the tolerance you work to

This is further complicated if you want tilt - the Angled Switch Plate gives a fixed 9deg - it is supposed to be used at the base of the pedestal so can have a significant impact on pad x when you tilt the whole tower.


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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Fishbum has come over to the Alien side. Welcome, and enjoy the free speed.

I'm 570/510 pad y/x, please can you fit me? I looked at the Canyon fit charts a while back and seemed to fit onto a Medium pretty well, which was a nice surprise as I'm long and low enough that I struggle with a lot of modern bikes with integrated front-ends. I'm currently on a 2012 P3C and the Canyon is high on my list of upgrade options.

Would also be nice to confirm options around seat tube angle ranges of adjustability - I ride pretty steep but the Speedmax looks ok for that to my eye. Obviously the thing you sit on affects that also.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian,

good to see this thread pop up on ST.

Not my numbers here, just a double-check for another athlete's peace of mind while researching purchase options for a first tri-bike. Canyon is not on the current list but maybe it should be.

Pad Stack - 545
Pad Reach - 463

I hereby Acknowledge my opinions may be in direct contradiction to opinions expressed by those who are commonly referred to as professionals or experts in their field.

(Above statement made in compliance with requirement outlined in post #1 of the Lavendar Room thread entitled "Rules for Discourse" by Slowman - Oct. 24, 2019)
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [travisfodor] [ In reply to ]
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Trav

Pad X (Pad Reach) is a number that needs to be at least 400mm, prolly more. Double check that. Just as an example...if the tip of your Sitero measures 530 to the center of your pad, and the tip of your Sitero is set back 60 your Pad X is very likely 470.

And if you don't have the Pad Stack now I can help you find it if you're near your existing bike. Get back to me here.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Mdiaz] [ In reply to ]
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Mdiaz,

With Pad Y of 635 and a Pad X of 470 you should get a small Speedmax. The front end will need to have the short stem, the rise base bar, and a single 60mm spacer and two 5mm spacers under the aerobars. You could do the medium but you'd have to use the TSP to bring the pads back and I think the small would be a better choice.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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What do you see as the big differences between frame sizes when you could ride either a size bigger or a size smaller?

I bought a large (still waiting to be built) with both the flat and drop base bars, 65mm stem, TSP & angled kits and the J and L bend extensions, but realise I could also ride the medium.
  • pad stack = 620mm
  • pad reach = 509mm knees just behind elbows (but I've ridden the last few years at 530-535 or so).
  • saddle height = 809mm
  • saddle set back (nose behind bb) = 15mm

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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Is that available on the cf slx?

Yes it is.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Nov 22, 18 15:00
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Mdiaz,

With Pad Y of 635 and a Pad X of 470 you should get a small Speedmax. The front end will need to have the short stem, the rise base bar, and a single 60mm spacer and two 5mm spacers under the aerobars. You could do the medium but you'd have to use the TSP to bring the pads back and I think the small would be a better choice.

Ian

THANK YOU so much Ian,

Just noticed there was a typo on my side so my X is really 486 (Y stays the same 635). I don’t think it makes any difference but just in case... sorry about my mistake!

When it comes to the bar and having the 2019 model the spacers in the middle (not affecting the height as far as I know) what would be my advantage having them on my Set-up versus the flat one?...just trying to understand.

THANK YOU again for the help!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Gjadams] [ In reply to ]
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Gareth,

Your Pad Y of 596 and Pad X of 490 could work on all three sizes but we have to pass on the size Large because that Pad Y is the absolute lowest the bike will go (drop base bar, zero spacers) and you mentioned that you'd like the ability to perhaps go lower in the future.

Here's the details for the Medium: Flat bar, short stem, a single 20mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer under the aerobars - and, the pads back all the way on the stock mounts (if for any reason you had to reduce your cockpit in the future you could employ the TSP). The result is a Pad Y of 595 (just 1mm off your number) and a Pad X of 489 (again, 1mm off).

The Small would look like this: Flat bar, short stem, two 20mm spacers + two 5mm spacers under the aerobars - and, the pads forward all the way. The result is Pad Y 595 (1mm off) and Pad X of 493 (3mm off).

You should do the Medium. I have two issues with the Small under you: 1) 50mm of aerobar pedestal creates a bigger gap between your arm pad level and your pursuit bar level - it's just a ways to go to get to the brakes. You could do a Small with the rise base bar and only need 30mm of pedestal but I believe the bike comes with the flat bar so you'd have to purchase the rise bar to make the change. 2) I don't know the Front Center measurement of the two bikes. The geometry chart online doesn't list that element, but with some presumption and some basic subtraction I'm pretty sure the Front Center on the Medium is ~30mm longer and this would likely mean that you'll enjoy the stable feeling of the Medium over the Small.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Knighty76,

If you do the Medium Speedmax you'll need the short stem and pads dead center - that will satisfy your Pad X and it'll be beautiful. Now....with the stock flat bar that comes on it you will be slammed with no (zero) spacers. That gives you your Pad Y of 570 but you can go no lower - unless you acquired the drop bar and then you'd need to use three 5mm spacers to arrive at 570. I can say this: as the majority of triathletes age they increase their Pad Y - said another way - as we get older (say 45+) we want our pads higher so that we don't have crane our necks as much to look safely up the road. If you went with the Medium and the flat bar that I'm pretty certain comes in the box you'll ride it slammed as you are fit now. if you want to come up in the future - no problem. If you want to go lower in the future you can buy the drop base bar and you'll have 15mm to play with.

Regarding the seat tube angle - it's listed at 80.5 degrees but there's quite a bit of both clamp slide and rail slide to give you plenty of range.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [gregn] [ In reply to ]
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Greg,

Thanks for checking in.

For your (assuming smallish) athlete who has Pad Y of 545 and Pad X of 463....the only option is a Small with the short stem, flat bar slammed. Without the TSP (Team Switch Plate) the shortest the pad goes is 466. I'd set it up that way first and see if the Pad X of 466 will satisfy. If not you can add the TSP then it'll scrunch up the cockpit all the way to 439 so a few holes forward with the arm pad and you'll get into the 460s.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Yellow] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
What do you see as the big differences between frame sizes when you could ride either a size bigger or a size smaller?

Yellow,

My number one criteria is "room to move". I wouldn't want to spec a bike that painted someone into a corner and gave no ability to go 5 to 10mm up/down with pads or shorter/longer with cockpit. If one bike has an athlete maxed out one way or the other then I want to look at the other size - if it works.

My number two criteria is handling. The "Front Center" on a bicycle is the distance from the BB (Bottom Bracket) to the front hub. With the way we ride a triathlon bike (lots of weight on the front wheel) - if the Front Center gets short then the bike can be a bit sensitive (read: twitchy). This is, of course, to scale - a tiny person has less weight on an appropriately small bike so it's not felt as much but if you're 6ft plus and can choose between two bikes then going with the larger one can have an advantage in handling.

Your Pad Y/X of 620/509, the Large bike with flat bar, short stem and pads all the way back on the stock mount yields a Pad X of 511 (with TSP you can go shorter). To get to your Pad Y of 620 (on the flat bar) you'll need three 5mm spacers and you're there. If you go with the drop bar you'll need a single 20mm spacer and a single 5mm spacer to get the pads to the same height.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Nov 22, 18 15:00
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Mdiaz] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Just noticed there was a typo on my side so my X is really 486 (Y stays the same 635). I don’t think it makes any difference but just in case... sorry about my mistake!



Mdiaz,

That typo doesn't change much - same size, same base bar, same stem - you'll just move the pads forward 3 holes (I think, it's 3) but I know the length is in there for that stem on that bike.

Quote:
When it comes to the bar and having the 2019 model the spacers in the middle (not affecting the height as far as I know) what would be my advantage having them on my Set-up versus the flat one?...just trying to understand.

I need to understand this too. I've only seen one of those new bikes at Kona briefly and wasn't able to measure it, inspect it, etc. I'll reach out the engineers in Germany and get more info on the new front-end next week.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Nov 22, 18 15:01
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm struggling to get to 580

David, I need to confirm again that the document given to me is 100% right. And, I don't own anything on the new bike with the mono spacer. I'll know more soon.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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