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What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time?
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Recently, I have heard media talking heads state, as if fact, that Serena Williams is the greatest athlete of all time.

I think it started when retired tennis player John McEnroe said Serena Williams was the best female tennis player in the world, but when asked why he qualified it said compared to top male players "she'd be like 700." https://www.npr.org/...ams-light-up-twitter

Now it seems Nike, in its recent Kaepernick commercial, is claiming Serena Williams is "the greatest athlete ever." Not the greatest female athlete. Not the greatest tennis player. Not the greatest living athlete. But the greatest athlete of all time. You can view the commercial here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mreQsQrDF-A&feature=share

In view of the fact that she lost to the 203rd best male, how can anyone make this claim? Thoughts?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/tennis/aus/2017/01/21/serena-williams-nicole-gibbs-australian-open/96876832/

What was more intriguing at that particular Australian Open was that the two siblings had something of an inflated understanding of their abilities, developed from their being fresh-faced, and still in need of a few life lessons learned. So they marched themselves into the men’s ATP office to announce rather confidently they were ready to beat any tour player ranked around the Top 200 if someone wanted to take the challenge.

It just so happened that Karsten Braasch of Germany, once a top-40 player, but at the time ranked 203rd, was in ear shot. He thought it would be fun so stepped up to say he’d be happy to take them on.

The date was set and the day arrived. Braasch played a warmup round of golf in the morning, then came to Melbourne Park. The threesome went out to a back court where each sister would have a one-set shot at Braasch. Word had spread around the grounds that the event was taking place, which caused tournament officials to restrict admittance to the area to only those with badges.

Braasch would smoke cigarettes and sip beer during the changeovers, and to be honest no longer looked the part of a fit professional athlete. It made no matter. Braasch led 5-0 over Serena before winning the set 6-1, and then posted a 6-2 set victory over Venus.

It was all in good fun, but 19 years later, and a record six Australian Open titles later, Williams, laughingly, insisted recall of the event was not in her memory bank.

“I forgot about that, actually,” she said, smiling, on Saturday. “Gosh, I don’t remember that at all. Gosh, that was forever ago. I don’t remember what year it was.

“I have a terrible memory,” she added, still smiling.

Maturity is a valuable attribute to possess, and Williams now understands that as dominant as she’s been on the women’s tour, when it comes to the guys, she’s pretty much out of their league.

So when asked how she might do against a guy ranked No. 200 today — that would be Noah Rubin, who gave Roger Federer a tough time before the great one ousted the young American qualifier 7-5, 6-3, 7-6 (3) in the second round last Wednesday — she smartly didn’t venture a guess.

“I don’t know,” she said. “I’m pretty much focused on women’s tennis right now. I have to focus on that.”






Last edited by: imsparticus: Sep 6, 18 13:03
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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eh, Nike has been trying to make that label stick for a couple of years now.

https://www.adweek.com/...g-us-open-ad-173254/

repeating the same incorrect statement over and over and over wont make it true though.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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Greatest female tennis player of all time, perhaps and at least in the running..

Not even close to the greatest tennis player(including men)

And not even on the fist 10 pages of greatest athletes of all time, unless the bar for measuring is you have a vagina and have to play tennis..

She might be on the front page near the bottom, of highest paid athletes though, not sure how much she makes in comparison to top men in other sports...
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't read your whole post, I didn't need to. Why does it bother you if Nike - or anyone - makes that claim? I hope you never get one of those world's greatest dad or mum mugs I feel for the response your poor kid might get.
Last edited by: Andres: Sep 6, 18 14:21
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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I am not offended by the statement. It is, by its nature, one that would require a lot of subjective assessment (e.g., how do you even compare an athlete in one sport against one from another sport). So, it seems that Nike is treating women's tennis as a different sport than men's tennis and then making a subjective assessment (like: who is the greater athlete, Ted Williams or Muhammad Ali). I don't necessarily agree that this is the best way to determine who is the best athlete, but I don't reject it out of hand.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [hugoagogo] [ In reply to ]
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I like this topic. Who would be your top 5 athletes of all time? Use your own criteria.

1. Lebron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Walter Payton
4. Bo Jackson
5. Pele

That’s mine.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
And not even on the fist 10 pages of greatest athletes of all time, unless the bar for measuring is you have a vagina and have to play tennis..


Umm how many athletes encompass 10 pages?? Her credentials are pretty stout. Let’s not make the ridiculous argument that because she would lose to the vast majority of male tennis players that she can’t be one of the greatest athletes of all time (and I’m certainly not suggesting she’s one of the greatest athletes ever but I also wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand based on the criteria you suggested).
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Sep 6, 18 14:54
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [EastonZ16] [ In reply to ]
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1 Jim Thorpe
2 Jesse Ownens
3 Duke Kahanamoku
4 Pheidippides
5 Kelly Slater
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [EastonZ16] [ In reply to ]
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EastonZ16 wrote:
I like this topic. Who would be your top 5 athletes of all time? Use your own criteria.

1. Lebron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Walter Payton
4. Bo Jackson
5. Pele

That’s mine.

1.- Jordan
2.- Joe Montana
3.- Phelps
4.- Usain Bolt
5.- Lionel Sanders
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Andres] [ In reply to ]
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Andres wrote:
I hope you never get one of those world's greatest dad or mum mugs I feel for the response your poor kid might get.

You win, sir!
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Her credentials may be pretty good, but she is not a slam dunk even for greatest female tennis player. Just based on various wins, and what not.... Margaret Court is a more compelling choice than Serena.

So... If she's not unquestionably the greatest ever in her own sport... How can she be the greatest ever across ALL sport?

Then of course there is the question as to which sport requires the greatest athleticism... I'm not sure that's tennis men's or women's for me. So, I don't think Sampras or Federer or Serena or stephi are on my list anywhere.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [TulkasTri] [ In reply to ]
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TulkasTri wrote:
EastonZ16 wrote:
I like this topic. Who would be your top 5 athletes of all time? Use your own criteria.

1. Lebron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Walter Payton
4. Bo Jackson
5. Pele

That’s mine.

1.- Jordan
2.- Joe Montana
3.- Phelps
4.- Usain Bolt
5.- Lionel Sanders

Sanders is your #5? Of all time greatest athletes? Seriously? Kidding right? He’s won Kona exactly how many times?
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Skyline Chili] [ In reply to ]
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Skyline Chili wrote:
TulkasTri wrote:
EastonZ16 wrote:
I like this topic. Who would be your top 5 athletes of all time? Use your own criteria.

1. Lebron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Walter Payton
4. Bo Jackson
5. Pele

That’s mine.


1.- Jordan
2.- Joe Montana
3.- Phelps
4.- Usain Bolt
5.- Lionel Sanders


Sanders is your #5? Of all time greatest athletes? Seriously? Kidding right? He’s won Kona exactly how many times?

Of course I'm kidding. I thought it would be pretty obvious.

I don't know who I would chose for 5th, but I do know that my favorite athlete of all time is Magic Johnson.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I think she has a respectable argument for greatest female athlete. Of course those arguments are fairly pointless. I mean, in your list you included a legendary character from a couple thousand years ago with little facts actually known...

She is lucky that female tennis is actually fairly popular compared to other sports where often the mens side will dominate.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Completely agree; I was just trying to tone down the rhetoric . Without getting into the weeds, she is probably top 20 female athletes and top 100
all time any sport.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Sep 6, 18 15:35
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [EastonZ16] [ In reply to ]
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Michael Jordan
Wayne Gretzky
Usain Bolt
Michael Phelps
Muhammed Ali
Last edited by: Sanuk: Sep 6, 18 15:33
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [andy12] [ In reply to ]
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 I mean, in your list you included a legendary character from a couple thousand years ago with little facts actually known... //

Actually there are many accounts of his accomplishments, the Greeks were a writing bunch of historians. Here is a take from a modern day ultra runner, interesting about the unknown runner that actually died in the 25 mile run...


https://www.runnersworld.com/...-pheidippides-story/
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Andres] [ In reply to ]
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It bothers me for the same reason fake news bothers me (pink font - kinda/sorta). You can’t be the greatest athlete of all time if there are hundreds, if not thousands, of humans who can beat you at your own sport.

Andres wrote:
I didn't read your whole post, I didn't need to. Why does it bother you if Nike - or anyone - makes that claim? I hope you never get one of those world's greatest dad or mum mugs I feel for the response your poor kid might get.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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1. Ashley Horner
2. Ashley Horner
3. Ashley Horner
4. Ashley Horner
5. Ashley Horner
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [andy12] [ In reply to ]
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andy12 wrote:
I think she has a respectable argument for greatest female athlete. Of course those arguments are fairly pointless. I mean, in your list you included a legendary character from a couple thousand years ago with little facts actually known...

She is lucky that female tennis is actually fairly popular compared to other sports where often the mens side will dominate.

I would put up Babe Didrikson Zaharias as one of the greatest female athletes, and certainly over Serena. She excelled in multiple sports, to include winning track and field gold medals in the Olympics and 10 LPGA tournaments.

Also surprised nobody has mentioned Paula Newby-Fraser or Chrissie Wellington in this thread.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
I mean, in your list you included a legendary character from a couple thousand years ago with little facts actually known... //

Actually there are many accounts of his accomplishments, the Greeks were a writing bunch of historians. Here is a take from a modern day ultra runner, interesting about the unknown runner that actually died in the 25 mile run...


https://www.runnersworld.com/...-pheidippides-story/

I would bet my life that Serena has won 23 grand slam titles, I wouldn't even put money on any Pheidippides 'facts'. Not saying I know he didn't exist, or even didn't do what is said. There is just a very good chance of embellishment over time considering the little amount that was actually written.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [andy12] [ In reply to ]
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andy12 wrote:
I think she has a respectable argument for greatest female athlete. Of course those arguments are fairly pointless.

Serena doesn't lead ANY category of wins in women's tennis, and she isnt even listed in some categories (she's never completed the grand slam for instance).

Margaret Court is on every list and is #1 on three of them (more than any other player):
Most grand slam singles wins, most titles at a si.gle tournament, most consecutive tournament titles.

Serena does not dominate her sport the way that Margaret Court did, and she doesn't even compare to the dominance of people like Gretzky, Phelps, Ali, et al... Who completely changed the standard by which others are judged.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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It would be hard not to give this title to Kelly Slater. The youngest ever world surfing champion 20 and oldest 39 including 5 consecutive. He also had a three years off during his prime returning to win more world titles and to still be as progressive as any of the new younger gromets still surfing competitively at 46! That being said a different sport but a smaller competitive window Michael Phelps would have to rate pretty close.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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Greatest athlete of all time. Secretariat. Still holds the Belmont record set in 1973.
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Re: What's with all the talk about Serena Williams being the greatest athlete of all time? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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I think you can't possibly compare athletes who play a team sport to athletes who compete individually, has to be two different categories for me.
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