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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [justinhorne] [ In reply to ]
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Yep the they are the ones that weird me out. I too have played the erratic speed up, slow down game and am amazed how long before someone will stop following you. I had a guy overlapping wheels and when I told him to either stop overlapping or piss off he abused me and said he had been riding since I was in nappies and continued to overlap wheels. At that point I told him to f@#k off. All I want is an acknowledgement with a simple hello and ride in a safe manner.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Toby] [ In reply to ]
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Toby wrote:
No road racing; as I said upthread (though not chastising you for not remembering) I do tri in large part because I want nothing to do with drafting or being drafted by people I don't know and trust.

I must ask though, have you ever had someone hop on your wheel and coasted to get them off? If you're a road racer happy with that situation then of course you'd never notice if someone on your wheel would refuse to get off, because you're not sitting up to try to force it.

These particular drafters occur in Austin, both out on Parmer and on the COTA bike nights. I can't tell you a thing about whether the people in question are accomplished roadies or triathletes because, as mentioned, my issue with them is I have no idea who they are or what their skill level is. It does happen quite regularly however. On occasions that I ride in a group, the people I ride with are far more accomplished than I am and I'm perfectly comfortable in close quarters as a result.

Now if someone asked permission first (and I mean before latching on, not a "thanks" after peeling off), I'd probably trust them more. The ghost that suddenly and silently appears on my wheel? I hate that person.


I never had this problem in Austin but then again, I was much slower in those days.

I became a triathlete many years after becoming a cyclist, and a few years after beginning group riding. E.g., I had no idea folks would find hopping on rude. I saw how the pacelines worked and was happy to take a turn at the front but learned what a mess that turns into w/o a bike computer. (Again, back in the day of pre-tri and having gizmo's galore.)

Question for you and the group at large: How would you feel about a roller blader drafting you? I was passed by a guy pulling his dog in one of those child trailers, so I got low, increased my pace and viola. But I would have had to scream for him to hear me ask permission. FYI I can skate 17 mph when I lean on it, and yes, I'd eat shit if I had to stop abruptly.

To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
Last edited by: Tsunami: Sep 2, 18 6:48
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [justinhorne] [ In reply to ]
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justinhorne wrote:
I think today really illustrated for me the subtle differences attitude can make.

Before today, I've been slightly more in camp "I don't care if strangers hook on as long as they're safe. It's not any harder for me to have them there."

Well today, tail end of a 55mi on my road bike, decide to take two laps on a very popular 3mi loop. Guy hopped on right at the base of the first climb. I made smalltalk, "Hey man, you caught me on the end, I'm only doing two loops, fyi!" No reply. I continue at my pace, he's right there. I make a few calls on cars, no reply. I pull hard, he's right there, freewheeling away pretty damn close. After a turn, I sit up (no handed, fully up) to grab a drink, see what he does. Sits in behind me. I go on at my own pace, slightly slower, he's just chilling there. Anyway, did my two laps, peeled left, let him go around on the inside, no a word. Cool man, hope you enjoyed the tow or whatever that was about.

Basically, just a hello and DBAA is all I need to be completely content for you to sit on all day. Don't expect me to do anything other than what my plan is, but if you're content at my Z3/Z4 pace and want to be there, doesn't bother me. Act like you're entitled to just sit there and be lazy? Annoying. If I'd have been riding further, I definitely would have made him take a pull or just let him get ahead of me and then do my own thing.

I used to be cool with people sucking wheel until very recently. Then, one day, a guy sucked my wheel for 2km and, after a hairpin, he passed me, I sat on his wheel for a while and was gifted with a snot rocket. That was the last straw.

Now, whenever someone sits on my wheel, the watersports begin. I spit, throw snots, take giant sips from my bottle, swish it and spit it up, rip humongous farts and I've even peed at one occasion in order to get rid of these ungrateful bloodsuckers. Lately, I have preferred riding on the rollers to avoid these kind of encounters. Which, in turn, have more and more been turning me away from triathlon and more towards OWS and running.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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I don't get why people are worked up over this.
I've initiated letting people suck wheel when I pass them in a strong headwind.

But then I started road riding/racing 15 years before I ever did a trip and seeing other cyclists on the road was a rarity.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]
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Bumble Bee wrote:
I don't get why people are worked up over this.
I've initiated letting people suck wheel when I pass them in a strong headwind.

But then I started road riding/racing 15 years before I ever did a trip and seeing other cyclists on the road was a rarity.

Apples and oranges

Passing someone and imitate them to suck your wheel

Compared to riding, then you sit up and put on your breaks and then find out someone has been wheel sucking
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]
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Bumble Bee wrote:
I don't get why people are worked up over this.
I've initiated letting people suck wheel when I pass them in a strong headwind.

But then I started road riding/racing 15 years before I ever did a trip and seeing other cyclists on the road was a rarity.

as mentioned numerous posts upthread, safety

having one drafting you has a non-zero risk of bad things happening. while the one behind is the most likely to suffer during a crash, the person in front could also go down if the impact is just right, not to mention damages to the bike upon impact. why risk it

and given that this is the U.S., also a non-zero risk that the person who falls might hire someone to sue you
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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I had it happen again earlier this morning, although with a different outcome. Passed a guy and said good morning and then he instantly latched on to my wheel, half-mooning and riding right off my left shoulder. Did this for a good two miles and twice I'd sit up to slow a bit thinking he'd pull ahead, but he would do the same. Came to an intersection where we had to stop and I was just about to tell him go ahead, and he asks where I was riding to. I had about another two miles to go to where I was going to turn to loop back home and he says "OK, I'll get you there" and then takes the pull. I stayed about two bike lengths back so that I wasn't too close, got to where I was turning off and he said "enjoy the rest of your day". Surprisingly nice turn of events where usually guys will say "thanks for the lift" if they say anything at all and never reciprocate by taking a pull.



"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Meh. I'd take a random drafter any day on my ride as compared to the countless cars that blow by while texting or passing too close.

Even after all these threadposts, I will still be the outlier than more than welcomes any drafters, and the more the merrier! Even if I'm not on a hammerfest ride, I like the company, and I there are enough cyclists around here in Norcal that on weekends, there is a good probability that you get enough random drafters to get a good impromptu paceline going which is a ton of fun!

If I'm not in the mood for a drafter, I just pull right, and slow down until they pass far enough ahead that it's not an issue. Not hard, and sorry, it's not like it's going to totally mess up your planned tempo-paced ride by relaxing for 20-30seconds.

And come on guys - this is ST! If you have any doubts of the guy behind you and you don't feel like letting up, just crank up the pace to 24+mph or pump up the power to 300+w on the next small roller and see if they're still there LOL! Anyone who can maintain those efforts for more than a measly minute is almost certainly more than capable of riding well enough to be less of a threat than the cars. I've been on enough bikeclub rides with a fair amount of slower (as well as faster) riders including noobs to see this is def the case.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]
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To be honest if somebody wants to suck my wheel then I really don't have an issue with that but don't expect me to hand out warnings about potholes, obstacles etc
If you sit behind me for 10 mins and then sprint past me up a climb or away from some lights, I think its a bit pathetic but again not really that bothered I'm just enjoying my ride
If somebody goes past me (whether they have been sat on my wheel or not) and then go about the same speed I'm going I will just drop back a few metres as I don't really want to ride on anybody else's back wheel.
Bottom line though I'd say is chill out and enjoy your ride!
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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That's the worst. We call them Cling-ons. You should always ask to join a paceline...
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
Meh. I'd take a random drafter any day on my ride as compared to the countless cars that blow by while texting or passing too close.

Even after all these threadposts, I will still be the outlier than more than welcomes any drafters, and the more the merrier! …………..

I'd say that I would probably fit in well with you based on your entire post. I have about the same view or opinion.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [RBR] [ In reply to ]
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I've had plenty of people sit on my wheel.
Situational awareness. So many people out riding nowadays ride with blinders.
If I pass someone, I can usually tell if they hopped on my wheel.
Never considered it a big deal.
And as soon as I realize someone is on my wheel, I point out obstacles. No bfd
Last edited by: Bumble Bee: Sep 3, 18 12:15
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [psheen] [ In reply to ]
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psheen wrote:
To be honest if somebody wants to suck my wheel then I really don't have an issue with that but don't expect me to hand out warnings about potholes, obstacles etc
If you sit behind me for 10 mins and then sprint past me up a climb or away from some lights, I think its a bit pathetic but again not really that bothered I'm just enjoying my ride
If somebody goes past me (whether they have been sat on my wheel or not) and then go about the same speed I'm going I will just drop back a few metres as I don't really want to ride on anybody else's back wheel.
Bottom line though I'd say is chill out and enjoy your ride!


I'm the opposite of you - I freaking LOVE when I get randos fall in right behind me and then try to breakaway from me when they get the chance. That's the BEST when you're interested in some competition! After all, odds are more than likely that I'm not redlining to drop them when they're grabbing my wheel, so when they takeoff ahead, it's cool to see if they can keep the wattage up and stay away. In the times that they can't get away, I've had a few really fun 2-man pacelines that self-forms, and then we high five each other or say 'great pull!" right before we have to turn off to go home.

I have NEVER had a bad experience with these impromptu 2-man sessions, whether I'm the one doing the dropping, or being dropped. It's honestly one of the joys of riding outdoors to me. Sure, there's a risk of a crash when the guy's behind, but I'll say that risk is a lot lower than me getting hit by a car texting.

I will add that even if someone can suck my wheel for 10 mins, but then drop me cold and stay away on the next roller/climb, he gets a big thumbs-up from me - good rider! (I'm not some bike stud - it's just he beat me fair and square in my book if he can stay away!)

I'm as a competitive as the rest of you guys, but really, you guys get all worked up on a training ride when someone grabs your wheel for a bunch, and then makes a break for it when they get the chance? That's your chance to get some great intervals!
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry for quasi-bumping this thread and for having started another - I just didn't see this one. As this one is more complete I'll add my perspective (someone who has drafted recently (not commuting))...

I used to bike decades ago, picked it up again 'sort of', did a tri, and only this year I've spent more time riding. I have a 'hybrid' that I used in a tri setup and is now a roadie, so no problem with being on the aero bars not being able to break. I've always been more of a long distance person and never had much power in my legs or anywhere else which is why I gave up biking when I was young.

Now, I've ridden in one of the parks in NY where there are a fair amount of road bikers of different ages and skill levels and fitness. It takes me about an hour to get there from where I live, so I have about 4-6 laps in me before I have to head on home. Because I'm still trying to just get more miles in me also trying to increase speed and power is a bit difficult as far as motivation goes. When running it's no problem for me to motivate myself, but going uphill against the wind on a bike is brutal.

So, when I see riders on this loop where they are clearly out exercising and going relatively fast, certainly faster than me, I sometimes get on their wheel and try to hang on. To me this is all just about motivation to spend a bit more energy and use more power over what I know will be a shorter distance, because I will get dropped.

It's not about ego,
it's not about racing,
it's not about being the fastest,
it's not about winning.

I stay anywhere from say a foot or two behind at the closest, but most of the time further behind especially as speed increases. If someone magically runs out of gas I'll continue past them at whatever pace I can manage. I don't slow down in order to draft, which would be daft.

If someone is behind me drafting I don't say anything, and I don't mind at all. I probably won't point out pot holes etc because my mind will be elsewhere, but as other people pointed out; I really don't think that's my responsibility unless we agree to take turns pulling. But the point is that I have no problem with someone 'sucking wheel' when I'm out training and that I always try to predict the road ahead of anyone I'm behind to avoid surprises.

------

Now, I read a few comments about when someone is on your rear wheel and isn't pulling and alternating with you you're doing all the work, and you don't want that. Ok, so one alternative is that they don't ride with you at all in which case you're still taking all the air. So as far as that goes there's zero difference and it really doesn't make sense (to me) as an argument.

I had someone drop me on the route recently, and then a bit later I caught up and passed him, and then again he caught up to me during an uphill section and I moved in behind. He immediately slowed down, moved to the side and said he didn't want me on his wheel. So I said 'ok', and went on my way. That simple.

And lastly, If you're going to toss bodily fluids in my direction knowing that I'm there I would hope you have 'plausible deniability', because you always have the option of talking to someone instead of doing that. And if I think you know I'm behind you and you choose to spit on me I won't just sit there quietly, because on the list of 'obnoxious behavior' to me at least spitting (or urinating!) on someone on purpose ranks far higher than 'sucking wheel', especially when there are other options such as just talking to someone.

Sorry if that was long - and I don't expect anyone to care about me or my opinions per se, but perhaps it's somewhat of a different perspective... perhaps not...
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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If I’m out riding solo, I’d never hop on someone else’s wheel, but I don’t mind someone hopping on mine as long as I know they’re there. Like you, I actually enjoy bumping up the wattage to see if they can stay on it, and I don’t even care if they attack 10 minutes later. Then I practice my tri legal pacing, staying back 10m and seeing whether they can hold it. If not, I practice the pass and go to the front again. It’s fun and a great workout.

The only bad experience I had was when I was out with a training partner and we were taking turns pulling. Unbeknownst to us, another dude got on the back and was just sitting there, which I found out when I blew a snot rocket. He wasn’t too happy about that, but I told him it wasn’t deliberate - I just had no idea he was there. So now I always give a look back before I launch one, even on solo rides. :-)

Ian
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Post deleted by windschatten [ In reply to ]
Re: Strangers sucking wheel [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
MattiasNyc wrote:
Because I'm still trying to just get more miles in me also trying to increase speed and power is a bit difficult as far as motivation goes. When running it's no problem for me to motivate myself, but going uphill against the wind on a bike is brutal.


If you can't find motivation to ride by yourself, hire a coach to ride with you or join a team/group.


I can't afford a coach. I don't own a car or a house or anything really. I have my bike. I appreciate your genuine suggestion though...


windschatten wrote:
Or maybe road cycling isn't for you, and you should look for a more social rewarding form of recreation, such as bike polo?


I'll do what you just did above. Look:


windschatten wrote:
What kind of person by default disrespects a strangers personal space and safety in public?


Or maybe road cycling isn't for you, and you should look for more of a safe space, such private library?


See how that works? Snark is super easy. Anyone can do it.
Last edited by: MattiasNyc: Sep 15, 18 13:49
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Post deleted by windschatten [ In reply to ]
Re: Strangers sucking wheel [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
I am in my private study right now.

And No, you got no game.

.

So you win then. Congrats.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
MattiasNyc wrote:
windschatten wrote:
I am in my private study right now.

And No, you got no game.

.


So you win then. Congrats.


Sigh....It is not about winning.....THAT's exactly your issue.
.

I was referring to your demeanor in this thread the way I perceived it, and it was (I guess not) obviously (ironic) sarcasm.

In contrast the point I made initially regarding training was exactly the opposite of "winning". Getting motivation to get more out of the workout isn't about "winning", it's about getting motivation to get more out of the workout. Nothing else. If I end up behind someone then it's a fair chance they'll pull away pretty quickly because I can't keep up. That doesn't deflate my ego, and my 'job' or 'goal' isn't achieved by me going faster than them.

So, no, winning is exactly NOT my issue.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [MattiasNyc] [ In reply to ]
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If you have any doubts of the guy behind you and you don't feel like letting up, just crank up the pace to 24+mph or pump up the power to 300+w on the next small roller and see if they're still there LOL! Anyone who can maintain those efforts for more than a measly minute is almost certainly more than capable of riding well enough to be less of a threat than the cars

^^This.

I'm quite jealous of the places you all must live where cyclists are so thick on the ground that you always have others to ride with. I'll do a 30 mile ride and pass 2 others, with maybe 5 come the other way. I'd like to have someone to exchange pulls with at a decent speed or just someone to sit on my wheel to have some fun with by seeing how long I can hold the hammer down to make them blow up, or myself.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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I don't care much, but I don't signal hazards or do anything to assist the rider behind. I ride like I'm not riding in a group which is exactly what I'm doing before they got there.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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Seems weird in the sense that if they caught up to you, they are obviously faster, why would they want to sit on your wheel?
I overtake people all the time and I feel bad that I usually end up going by them really fast, so no one that I catch (because obviously I am not catching up to people that are stronger than me) really has a chance to grab my wheel. I feel like it would be more polite to slow up a little more and chat so they can catch a draft but when I'm out for a ride it's not social it's training and I'm not doing a jaw workout.

I honestly couldn't care less if someone wants to draft, even uninvited. If anything, a little fun if you want to turn the screws on them, suffer you little piggies.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [RCCo] [ In reply to ]
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RCCo wrote:

I'm quite jealous of the places you all must live where cyclists are so thick on the ground that you always have others to ride with. I'll do a 30 mile ride and pass 2 others, with maybe 5 come the other way. I'd like to have someone to exchange pulls with at a decent speed or just someone to sit on my wheel to have some fun with by seeing how long I can hold the hammer down to make them blow up, or myself.

Seriously, I rode 50miles last weekend and saw two (2) other riders going the other way, one was on a cruiser just out for a ride. Would be great to have others to ride with
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