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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
cartsman wrote:
I don't bother to drop them any more unless it's an interval I was planning on doing anyway. If they're inches from my wheel I'll ask them to move back. If they're a few feet or more away and riding sensibly then it doesn't really bother me, though I would always prefer they ask or at least say hello before doing it.


This.

I really don't get the attitude to be a dick and just fuck with them, without at least engaging first. What's wrong with just talking to the wheelsucker? If someone doesn't want them there...say so. Maybe they don't know better. I would find it truly bizarre to ask someone NOT to wheelsuck, and have them ignore my request. In 24 years of training in multiple states, I've NEVER had someone IGNORE a conversation on the road, or a request to go solo.

If they are a weaker, less experienced rider....take a minute to teach them the proper etiquette, and NOT give people the impression that all stronger riders are assholes.

cartsman wrote:

Context is important - if you're on roads with plenty of cyclists then it's fairly normal behaviour, but if you're in the middle of nowhere and riding along just the 2 of you it's pretty weird not to say something! I actually get much more bothered when somebody decides to pull in right in front of me - that's much more presumptuous as it messes with whatever workout I was planning. It's also more dangerous for me - when a rider crashes into another one from behind the rider in front is generally fine.


I agree its weird to just hang out back there without even saying "hello." But, people are weird, shy, don't know better, or maybe also an asshole. You don't know if you don't talk. Its just as weird to know they are back there, and also no say something...especially if its annoying someone.

Relatable, good thoughts.

I just say "good morning" when we stop at the next traffic light and the wheel sucker is behind me. Always a friendly exchange, never a problem in years. If someone wants to try and hang on, I have no problem with that, point out things when I know they're there, and otherwise just keep doing what I'm doing and enjoy the ride.

I do the same when passing people on the road, wish them good morning. I'd say half are surprised that another cyclist is being friendly to a stranger, odd, and not a good realization. Cyclists on the road have bad reputations, because many are unfriendly, aloof, arrogant, sometime over-competitive, egotistical, some dangerous and feeling entitled as well. I try to counter that by being friendly, just like off the bike. It's easy and fun. Life's too short to be serious. I'm grateful to be riding. Racing is another story, but that's a tiny percentage of cycling time.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Super D] [ In reply to ]
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Super D wrote:
Cyclists on the road have bad reputations, because many are unfriendly, aloof, arrogant, sometime over-competitive, egotistical, some dangerous and feeling entitled as well.
Also judgmental.


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
A comment about social aptitude on this thread?!! Seriously, I don't get this thread. I prefer people not to be on my wheel when I'm riding, but if they choose to sit there, who cares, it's not doing me any harm - look after your front wheel and you'll be fine. Seriously, people are concerned because when they finish an interval they stop sharply and the wheel sucker might slam into the back of you? What do you do, hit the brakes hard at the end of an interval or just sit up? Sit up - you'll be fine. If someone is there, speak with them, ride harder, I don't know, show some social aptitude! I don't get it.

"Social aptitude"?

It is beyond bizarre for you to lecture about "social aptitude" while defending someone literally following a stranger around without asking. In what universe is that acceptable behavior? Only in the bizarro world of some cyclists/triathletes.

It's clueless at best and dickish at worst.

A friend of mine got hit from behind by a cyclist drating unwanted. My friend stopped for a light. The guy behind didn't. My friend's collarbone was broken.

And yes, when out riding by ourselves, it's fine to slam on the brakes due to seeing unexpected things happening, like seeing a kid running to the road, etc. I behave differently if riding alone than if riding with other people.

rmt wrote:
speak with them, ride harder

Why TF should it be my responsibility to take positive action to deal with this, when some dude doesn't even ask if he can follow?

If I'm out riding alone, leave me alone or ask if you can accompany me. This is basic. That is "social aptitude." But don't just take my solitude because you want to without even addressing me.


http://www.jt10000.com/
Last edited by: jt10000: Aug 1, 18 3:21
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [jt10000] [ In reply to ]
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jt10000 wrote:
Super D wrote:
Also judgmental.

Fair point. And it reminds me that in actuality, there are few which generate the reputation for many. Same as any other sport or group. People by nature tend to overlook the majority exemplifying good citizenship and spirit, and pay more attention to the smaller subset which is not. I’ve made this mistake before, and try not to.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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There is nothing wrong with not wanting an unannounced stranger riding your wheel, whatever the reason is, just don't be a dick and do something like snot rockets or spitting. Having someone on your wheel means you need to take some responsibility to point out potholes, signaling turns and stops/significant slowing. Sometimes people just want to ride and not worry so much about the person behind them.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I aim for the potholes, flick around them at the last second.

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [iruntrails] [ In reply to ]
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Having someone on your wheel means you need to take some responsibility to point out potholes, signaling turns and stops/significant slowing.

Agree - if I know that someone is behind me then I'll gladly do this. My point from earlier was not liking it when I don't know that they are there, which can be dangerous for both of us if I have to make a sudden move to avoid something or slow down/stop.



"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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replying t the op on the general subject but not really to the question asked.....

for me there is a bit of context to the extent of my tollerance of those jumping on my wheel. if i've spent several miles getting gradually closer to someone riding about the same speed then i see it as sort of ok. unless they deliberately go slower then they are going to be close.

the thing i struggle to understand - other than it just being an ego thing - is when i pass a small group, happily out enjoying their ride and doing whatever they were wanting to do, only to find some or all of them latching on to my back wheel. No one was stopping them riding harder before i came along so why the change of plan.


my only reason for not liking it, especially when riding hard, is safety. i more or less assume someone is going to try and draft, but there are a few times when i have been riding "on my own" not known that someone was on my wheel and had a bit of a surprise when i signal to make a turn
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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I agree.

As a runner initially, the idea of this is still strange to me. I can't fathom doing a run and having another person decide to keep pace with me. But I've accepted that it happens, and like most I'm okay with it IF the person says hi or initiates any conversation.

However, once I was riding easy-ish with a friend, having a very personal conversation, and someone decided to draft. If you see two people chatting away, just pass or stay back. (In this case my friend and I stopped all peddling until the person finally went around.)

I had another time I was doing an interval, head down like an idiot, and I crashed into someone else. 100% my fault even though they were just standing in the road- I should've seen them. I didn't realize that someone else was drafting off me, so all 3 of us went down. The person behind me started screaming at the first person they shouldn't have been in the road. No dude, my fault and your fault for sucking a stranger's wheel.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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did you try flicking your elbow?
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [triordie1994] [ In reply to ]
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triordie1994 wrote:
did you try flicking your elbow?

There was a guy last year who I passed and then he sprinted back up to me. Mind you we were in the middle of nowhere countryside so no need to hang on me. He didn't say anything and just sat in. I looked back a few times trying to figure out what was going on and he just sat there. If I accelerated he would get out of the saddle and just sit in a few feet away. A booger blast from me elicited a "what the fuck" and he backed off.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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based on the posts, most here are so much faster than the wheel suckers that they can just ride them off the wheel at will, so why don't you?
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [dalava] [ In reply to ]
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dalava wrote:
based on the posts, most here are so much faster than the wheel suckers that they can just ride them off the wheel at will, so why don't you?

My 400 watt ftp failed to engage that day. Obviously.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [dalava] [ In reply to ]
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dalava wrote:
based on the posts, most here are so much faster than the wheel suckers that they can just ride them off the wheel at will, so why don't you?
The point is why should you even have to?
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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I really don't care... it's happened to me once as I live in a rural area. Local pro rode up on me (we'd never met) and was sitting there for a few miles apparently.. had no idea until he rode up beside me, we spoke briefly, then he turned left off the road we were on. It spooked me a little... I'm just hammering along and someone shows up on my left. Otherwise no big deal, doesn't affect me or what I'm doing. I wished I had people to ride with sometimes... even if they're just sucking wheel.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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I ride alone a LOT since I work from home and often head out for lunch rides. I don't like it when random people look to suck on my wheel unless they acknowledge they are there (then I really don't mind). Sneak up and I'll make them hurt for it. In reverse I'll never suck on wheels of say one to two rider.....I'll either pass or hang back 20 yards to give them some space until we split off inevitably. Larger groups I might ask to ride with for a period, but not often. I always get the impression that most people don't want some strangers tagging along in their group or solo ride so I fully look to respect that.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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TBH, I have no problem if someone sucks my wheel if I am just riding around or commuting as long as they make their presence known so it doesn't become a safety issue. I do that myself sometimes, and I always ask permission to see if it's ok. I will never do that to someone who looks like is in serious training mode though.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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friskyDingo wrote:
What's the etiquette when some random dude decides to hop on your wheel without asking and just sits there? On a solo ride or long commute?

I get annoyed and drop them. I feel stupid but it just annoys me, and I'm burning matches for no good reason. I usually enjoy the company if they ask, but sometimes they don't and I don't want them next to me, am I overreacting?

Sitting here at the desk in my office I have no problem with someone jumping on my wheel. Who cares about the riding habits of a stranger that I'll never see again ? But each time it has actually happened when I'm on the bike, I get annoyed, do my best to drop them, and then thump my chest when I get home. I realize it is inane, but it's my reality.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [dalava] [ In reply to ]
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Agree 100% there is an etiquette to sucking wheels. If someone at least acknowledges me, says hi and doesn't half wheel me I will point pot holes and move across before blowing a snot rocket. You jump on unannounced, not say hi at the next set of lights or opportune time then I pretend I don't know you are there. There are times I am serious training and times I just want to be in my own world and don't want someone inches from my back wheel.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Whoa that generated way more responses than I thought it would!

After reading most of the discussion above, I guess there won't really be a change for me then: if a random sits behind and doesn't acknowledge me in some way before/during/after, I will try to get on with my ride as much as possible and think of it as if they were a poor lil butters,




bless their soul. Ride safely!
Last edited by: friskyDingo: Aug 31, 18 16:03
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
Doesn't bother me. But, I guess if it did... I'd ask them to take a pull, and share the load.

Most of the time, I get a "thanks for the ride!" when they peel off.

I'll usually ask if I'm going to hop on. If they don't talk or ignore me or don't answer, I hop on if they are going "just that speed that is right" for you at that point. If they say no, I'll floor it and go bye bye (usually). Once in a while, I'll have a pro fly by & it's not even enough time to say HI, then they're up the road--often with a moto in front of them or another pro. Obviously, if they are going too slow I won't bother.

If someone hops on without asking, I try to fit in some conversation briefly & introduce myself. Networking on the bike can be a good thing! Be friendly, and I never turn someone down if they ask and hop on. If they don't ask, I'll either slow down to get them up front for a bit, or just drop the hammer & see if they like a 165+ bpm effort. Then slow waaaay down again. I've had some at time who don't talk after they hop on & try to almost act like they're trying to race me by surging past me, but so be it, that can be fun. Sometimes you need a little speed work when you're not mentally ready for it (besides, I really need to get faster on the bike & don't do enough speedwork). It's all good.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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If they are safe great. If not a friendly chat. Otherwise just ride.

Why get worked up about it, either ride them off your wheel and slow and let them past.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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Fwiw, it’s awkward catching a paceline while riding solo.

Basically a group that can paceline the flats around 20ish but can’t get over hills. Basically burn a match and ramp it to pursuit power and speed for 2 min then backing off.

In terms of wheelsuckers, I’m torn on folks on tri bars in the A+ ride. If you need them to hang, and you’re skipping most turns, just drift back to the other group. You’re not ready. But, they’re nice folks and they do try hard. I’d never say something. Just not fair folks getting a free ride (relatively) at 22ish up a roller they’d never make otherwise then tapping their ass after 20 seconds up front. I just pulled for 5 minutes, c’mon.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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I think today really illustrated for me the subtle differences attitude can make.

Before today, I've been slightly more in camp "I don't care if strangers hook on as long as they're safe. It's not any harder for me to have them there."

Well today, tail end of a 55mi on my road bike, decide to take two laps on a very popular 3mi loop. Guy hopped on right at the base of the first climb. I made smalltalk, "Hey man, you caught me on the end, I'm only doing two loops, fyi!" No reply. I continue at my pace, he's right there. I make a few calls on cars, no reply. I pull hard, he's right there, freewheeling away pretty damn close. After a turn, I sit up (no handed, fully up) to grab a drink, see what he does. Sits in behind me. I go on at my own pace, slightly slower, he's just chilling there. Anyway, did my two laps, peeled left, let him go around on the inside, no a word. Cool man, hope you enjoyed the tow or whatever that was about.

Basically, just a hello and DBAA is all I need to be completely content for you to sit on all day. Don't expect me to do anything other than what my plan is, but if you're content at my Z3/Z4 pace and want to be there, doesn't bother me. Act like you're entitled to just sit there and be lazy? Annoying. If I'd have been riding further, I definitely would have made him take a pull or just let him get ahead of me and then do my own thing.

JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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 I’d never say something. Just not fair folks getting a free ride//

Ha!! Thats a good one. When did training rides have to be fair?? I thought that they were for each person to get out of it what they needed, or wanted. I guess it was not fair that I dropped all those guys back in the day, what an asshole I was! And sucking wheel right up until the sprints at the city limit sighs, man I was about as unfair as you get... (-;
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