Great question.

I would say lower than my best marathon and my work towards a sub 1:30 hm.

I feel with all the training the Ironman race was just a long training ride. Intensity lower and controlled.

Certainly a great achievement but not hurting as much as a did on previous races. I think watching some people from my tri group finish my Ironman race 16+ hours with little to less training also took away some satisfaction.

Ironman needs a more difficult time cut off but that’s another topic. :)

Interesting question. I'd say that I am more proud of doing well at 70.3s than my IM. I'm quite proud of one of my pre-IM training days where i did a 100 mile ride followed by a 10 mile run. This was "better" as it was unsupported and done a lot quicker than my (first/only?) IM which was a long trudge through horrific weather and an endurance race against hypothermia rather than against the distance or the clock.

I agree about the cut-off as well. Due to the hideous rain and wind and the hilly (Wales) course it was slow and careful all the way so I couldn't have gone slower if i'd tried, and I still went sub-13. Another 4 hours to play with is crazy - i could have gone to work for a half day, to pay for it all, and still made the cut-off.

I tried to answer this several times, but couldn't. Because looking back, what was difficult to me was certain people/teams I was competing against. Not the "event/distance" itself.

Being that I'm a former fat guy with zero previous athletic background, it's a bucket listing crowning achievement that will probably never be equaled.
But, as someone noted, for a guy like me, it was just a long, controlled day of pretty much enjoying the moment on the back of all the work I did leading up to it over the preceding months, and in fact, the preceding years.

-The 100+ lbs of weight loss.
-The volume of training and the days that required pushing yourself to swim faster in the pool, or speed drills/hills to make me a marginally better runner. The days when sweat was just pouring off you and you thought you were done, but pushed on for another 5 or 10 or 15 minutes.

Both of those featured days of intensity and required physical grit that I did not experience on my IM day (or at any other point in my life). My IM was like a beautiful cherry on top of that massive sundae.

And now as I respond to marathoners who seem 'impressed' with my IM, I always respond with something I probably read here. "Yah, well of course I 'ran' 26.2 miles just like you. Sure after a long swim and a bike. However, you marathoners are nuts. Your goal is to run it as fast as you possibly can. Me? All I'm trying to is not go too slow. Big difference."

I have only been training for 2.5 years and I am new to endurance sports. Here are my rankings on a scale of 1/10.


03/01/16 - decided not to be a couch potato, training begins
09/11/16 - Half Marathon (flat) - 2/10
11/13/16 - Marathon (flat) - 7/10
04/08/17 - Solo Double Century (200 miles) - 5/10
05/21/17 - Raystown Triathlon (70.3 hilly) - 6/10
06/21/17 - Solo Double Century (245 miles) - 6/10
09/17/17 - Savage Man Triathlon (70.0 very hilly) - 7/10
09/30/17 - Solo Everesting (29,000' on bike) - 9/10
10/29/17 - Solo Marathon (flat, speed PR) - 6/10
03/17/18 - Solo Marathon (4,000' multiple mountain passes) - 7/10
06/14/18 - Solo Triple Century (300 miles) - first 240 miles 6/10, last 60 miles 9/10
09/16/18 - Savage Man 80.0 - TBD
09/29/18 - Ironman Maryland 140.6 - TBD


Just a point of note, as my fitness and mental fortitude gets stronger, harder endeavors seem easier. My first flat marathon hurt just as bad as my most recent mountain marathon.

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"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal

Barkley marathons for me are harder than IM and I didn't finish the damn thing. Some day I will make 5 loops.

Hardest IM achievement for me so far has been my run. My IM marathon has taken a ton of work to get the times I want (still not there). The swim and bike (my background since childhood) has never troubled me much.

Of my triathlon accomplishments IM is the highest. I haven't done any ultra distances, and relative to my AG I place higher in an IM than I do at shorter distances. Mainly because I'm pretty good at both suffering and enduring, and I suck at swimming.

But I'd put my accomplishments as a rower before triathlon higher. We used to win races against opposition who were both talented and training very hard. I haven't come close to winning a triathlon yet, I'm a ~2:30 Olympic to 11:30 IM guy, so respectable MOP but finishing doesn't come above winning. Certainly not an IM which I really don't think is that difficult to just finish.

It's pretty high up there both relative to other tris, and overall athletic achievements, but it's not at the top.

A couple of half IMs and Olys hurt more acutely because I was really racing them, as opposed to the mostly-grinding approach to IM.

Running a 2:46 marathon definitely put the hurt on me more than IM, both in acute sense during the race and in amount of time it took to recover.

Most difficult/most proud athletic achievement was probably my cumulative participation on my high school swim team, though I don't think that's what you're asking necessarily. I was a mediocre swimmer on a great team - just doing what needed to be done to try not to get dropped by the big boys every day at practice was hard (and very rewarding). Same for IM; I'm more proud of the dedicated, big volumes training I did to prep for it than I am of completing the race itself.

Most difficult: 50 mile trail ultra
Second place: Azof long course duathlon
Third place: 140.6

Then marathons, half irons, etc......down the line

Stuff I've not tried = long distance swims, 100 mile ultras, trail tri's,

I don’t have much of an athletic background, other than intramurals back in the day, plus a few years of bike racing in my young 30s, 10+ years before trying triathlon. I don't think bowling leagues as a young teenager helped much.

I consider IMs to be the most difficult thing I’ve done. IMChoo 2016 was most difficult due to the extreme heat.

The most sore I’ve been was after my first standalone marathon, where I went full gas. I’d expect ultra running (50+ miles) to top the list, if I ever give them a try.

It's interesting how perspectives can be different - I have multiple sub-1:30hms and I'm only now considering maybe doing an IM at some point next year maybe. Maybe. And that seems a lot more challenging.

Marathons are just gut-wrenching vision quests when done right though, even though a hard 70.3 feels harder in some ways.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Really fun one to think about..

_Toughest- Top 10 finish in my one and only ultra, a 100 miler
_Second - Going all in for an IM (always all-in on race day, but learned how to train in this lead up) when I missed a KQ by 3 minutes.. The training contributes to this placement
_Third- Finally nailing the Newton Hills in Boston on my third trip this year in the drenching, windy conditions

Others not in the top 3:

_70.3 WC in Chatt was really tough, and placing well there was probably my most difficult triathlon achievement
_Surviving a season of Junior hockey. The buses, motels, and constant state of pseudo injury makes for a long season
_Doing decently in a 100M bike race. It was my first draft legal experience so I had to work a lot on my handling leading up to it
_Breaking 1:15 in a half marathon. Dedicating almost fully to my run for a few months still felt like a break compared to IM training

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Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4

I'm curious as to how old you are and what you suggest the cutoff be since it applies to all ages. Suppose we all agreed that 15 hours is sufficient for any IM branded course and to heck with anyone that couldn't achieve that. It wouldn't be too hard for IM to go through results list to determine the lost revenue from each race. Some races might not survive without those additional finishers.

I'm not very savvy on IM business costs, but the lost revenue would have to be balanced against decrease in total man hours that they'd need to pay for because of the shorter race day.

Side question- Would the race just start later to keep the romanticized "midnight finish" going, or would it just end earlier?

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Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4

For me the cutoff is about the logistics of the race. If the organisers can keep it open for a long time then good luck to those finishing in that time. I race for my personal times and if someone does a marathon, IM or egg and spoon race a good chunk behind me then it says nothing about my performance whether they get a legal finish or not. However generous the cutoff good luck to the last few home, you've earned it.

Did you finish a loop/fun run? What year did you do it? Thought about entering for a while, even though i think its mostly a gimmick, but still will probably want to do it sometime.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I'm 47. Only started this lark 3 years ago. It's a tricky one to judge times and cut-offs as there are many who could rightfully say that 10 hours or 12 hours should be the cut off. Same with Marathons: all those walking over the line after 6 hours have still done the distance and earned their medal i guess. The IM race is 17 hours though, so that's the criterion. Your perspective changes after passing each raised bar in life - I used to think i'd one day like to be able to run to the shop for a Sunday paper (1.5miles), nowadays that wouldn't even be worth putting on Strava. So what's next after IM to be proud of? I fancy an Ultra...

I'm 61 with 13 IM completions. I don't need the additional hours but many do. However, I am starting to feel my age and as I look at those older than me, I am very impressed by those 70 and older who are still out there. Just getting to the starting line at that age is an incredible achievement. Come back in 15 years, if you are still capable of doing IM and let us know if you still think the cutoff should be shortened. And for the record, 17 hours is the criterion in North America and the UK. Lots of other IM branded races offer less time...IM Germany is probably the shortest...15 hrs to 15:20 depending on your rolling start.

Meanwhile, I respectfully suggest you tackle an Xtreme Tri if you feel the need to raise the bar. Or maybe the double Brutal ... yeah, "that's the ticket" (for you, not me)!

Not much cost savings for shortening the cut-off since it's mostly volunteer labor. Most existing IMs with a cut-off earlier than 17 hours just end earlier. Nothing magic about midnight. IM Frankfurt finishes at 10pm.

I only race short course so I can only compare to sprint/oly.

Going sub 30 for a 20k bike tt is my biggest achievement outside tri, I honestly didn't think I could do it.

I have a 35-ish cousin who takes around 3:30 to finish an average flat Oly dist tri; don't think he's tried a full IM but I'm fairly sure he'd need the full 17 hrs. He's a bit overweight but mostly he just has zero aerobic talent; i say this b/c there is another guy i know who is about the same size but yet he can swim pretty well and can motor on the bike such that he can do a sub-11 IM in a flat race like IM Florida despite running 10-11 min miles on the run. IOW, some people even under 40 need all the time they can get, just b/c they have zero aerobic genes.

In response to the OP's original Q, it really depends greatly on how you look at it. The way i interpret the Q, he's asking about hard it was to do an iron race relative to all of your other athletic accomplishments. When i think of all the diff sports i've done, i'd rate iron racing fairly low, simply b/c i was not getting the sh*t beat out of me as i did in HS football; and, i wasn't nervous before and during every important match as i was playing competitive tennis from age 12 to 25. Swimming was and is grueling but so is tri training; to me, getting pounded at every practice in football and being nervous at every important tennis match, were harder things to deal with than simple fatigue.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Sort of depends on what you are doing as to difficulty. Try running a 4 min mile. 1st 440 not too tough, 2nd pretty hard, 3rd hmm, 4th go to the bar and try again tomorrow. Try breaking 50 min for a 40k bike TT. 1st 5 miles you might make, 2nd maybe not, 3rd so far behind, go to the bar and try again tomorrow.
Try running under 30 min for a 10 k. 1st mile under 5 min ok, 2nd under 10 min maybe, 3rd,4th and 5th don't think so. Go to the bar and try again tomorrow. Try swimming under 16 min for a 1650. 1st few hundreds maybe if you are pretty fast. Then not so much.
Slog thru an Ironman in 16 hours, not that crowning of an achievement. Go under under 9 hrs and hit the couch as you are close to hero status.
All depends what you want to achieve. This bucket list stuff is killing all the cool sports. Bunch of hackers thinking swim a couple miles, bike just fast enough to not get kicked out and walking a marathon, daym I am one hell of a tough guy.

Sort of depends where you are and where you want to be. I have known a few guys that could run a low 10 sec 100. Getting that extra 1/2 second out is a lifetime away. Getting a half second in a 10 second race is way more difficult than getting an hour in an Ironman for a beginner. Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder.

I would say near the top from the standpoint of the how dedicated I was to sticking to the workouts from coach and doing everything I could to reach my goal. Example. I did not drink for 6 months leading up to my IM. I was happy with my performance but felt like a long training day but I just felt pleased due to how focused I was in training to reach my goal.

Where's Chuy? He can talk about how he did 100 ironmans in a month and how hard it was.