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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
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At our bike shop we carry both the Wahoo Kickr and the Neo Tacx. We really dig that the Neo Tacx power accuracy is <1%, whereas the Wahoo Kickr is +/- 2%. But we do sell more Kickr's as it goes for $1200 and the Neo Tacx is $1600.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [UnionBicycle] [ In reply to ]
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UnionBicycle wrote:
At our bike shop we carry both the Wahoo Kickr and the Neo Tacx. We really dig that the Neo Tacx power accuracy is <1%, whereas the Wahoo Kickr is +/- 2%. But we do sell more Kickr's as it goes for $1200 and the Neo Tacx is $1600.

Rhetorical question: Did anyone actually perform any study with some representative amount of said trainers in regards to their power accuracy claims? Me thinks not. If one does online search/visits relevant forums there are numerous reports on subject. Some are good and some are not that good. Basically I can believe that both are reasonable accurate or at least can be. However I somewhat doubt that <1% and <2% accuracy claims represent actual situation.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [kostya416] [ In reply to ]
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Rhetorical question: Did anyone actually perform any study with some representative amount of said trainers in regards to their power accuracy claims? Me thinks not. If one does online search/visits relevant forums there are numerous reports on subject. Some are good and some are not that good. Basically I can believe that both are reasonable accurate or at least can be. However I somewhat doubt that <1% and <2% accuracy claims represent actual situation.

I don't think there has been a systematic review of trainer accuracy. My personal anecdote is that I struggled with the Kickr accuracy and consistency. I spent months trying to understand why my Vectors and my Kickr were showing vastly different outputs.

I gave up and purchased a Neo, and after that everything matches perfectly, even down to each little bump in power second by second. Now I use the Neo to make sure my Vectors are installed properly. It is my reference power meter now.

I understand now that Wahoo has changed the firmware of the Kickr to use a different power estimate now (using flywheel speed), a bit like a turbo trainer.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [roadguy] [ In reply to ]
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roadguy wrote:
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Rhetorical question: Did anyone actually perform any study with some representative amount of said trainers in regards to their power accuracy claims? Me thinks not. If one does online search/visits relevant forums there are numerous reports on subject. Some are good and some are not that good. Basically I can believe that both are reasonable accurate or at least can be. However I somewhat doubt that <1% and <2% accuracy claims represent actual situation.


I don't think there has been a systematic review of trainer accuracy. My personal anecdote is that I struggled with the Kickr accuracy and consistency. I spent months trying to understand why my Vectors and my Kickr were showing vastly different outputs.

I gave up and purchased a Neo, and after that everything matches perfectly, even down to each little bump in power second by second. Now I use the Neo to make sure my Vectors are installed properly. It is my reference power meter now.

I understand now that Wahoo has changed the firmware of the Kickr to use a different power estimate now (using flywheel speed), a bit like a turbo trainer.

I had chance to test both extensively. Not many different trainers but 1 KICKR of 1st generation and 1 Tacx Neo for a course of few month. Both were actually very good power accuracy wise but that is my personal case. As already said on forums you can find both good and negative power reports for either trainer.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [kostya416] [ In reply to ]
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I had chance to test both extensively. Not many different trainers but 1 KICKR of 1st generation and 1 Tacx Neo for a course of few month. Both were actually very good power accuracy wise but that is my personal case. As already said on forums you can find both good and negative power reports for either trainer.

I hate to be that guy, but I have not found a single bad report for the Neo power accuracy. If you find one please let me know, because I have checked many times.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [roadguy] [ In reply to ]
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roadguy wrote:
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I had chance to test both extensively. Not many different trainers but 1 KICKR of 1st generation and 1 Tacx Neo for a course of few month. Both were actually very good power accuracy wise but that is my personal case. As already said on forums you can find both good and negative power reports for either trainer.


I hate to be that guy, but I have not found a single bad report for the Neo power accuracy. If you find one please let me know, because I have checked many times.

Here is one for starters: http://forum.tacx.com/...&t=25810#p177402 as for the rest, Google is your friend.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [kostya416] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, a forum post from 2015 where one guy with a Quarq and another with a Stages report differences. The thread peters out with no result. You got me ;-)
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [roadguy] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone gone from a kickr to a neo?
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [roadguy] [ In reply to ]
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roadguy wrote:
Ok, a forum post from 2015 where one guy with a Quarq and another with a Stages report differences. The thread peters out with no result. You got me ;-)

There are enough of other results, I just picked the first one from a Google search list. I just expressed my opinion and I do not really care if it looks good enough for any particular person.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [roadguy] [ In reply to ]
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roadguy wrote:
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I had chance to test both extensively. Not many different trainers but 1 KICKR of 1st generation and 1 Tacx Neo for a course of few month. Both were actually very good power accuracy wise but that is my personal case. As already said on forums you can find both good and negative power reports for either trainer.


I hate to be that guy, but I have not found a single bad report for the Neo power accuracy. If you find one please let me know, because I have checked many times.

Here is my N+1. Tacx Neo is consistent and accurate. Data always tracks very well with my SRM.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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Question for you, how do you like the "rocking" feature that the Neo has? I've been more interest in this lately (ala like how how the Kurt Rock and Roll works....thinking this could sway me towards a Flux or Neo over a Kickr down the road).
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [loxx0050] [ In reply to ]
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The Tacx Neo is the best unit I've tried. My GF was using the Kickr and I thought it was nice, but not as not or as accurate. Between the rocking and the road simulations in Zwift the Neo is just the best. I've also used the Kurt Kinetic, a Tacx Vortex smart, etc and think they are decent but not even close to the Neo.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [loxx0050] [ In reply to ]
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loxx0050 wrote:
Question for you, how do you like the "rocking" feature that the Neo has? I've been more interest in this lately (ala like how how the Kurt Rock and Roll works....thinking this could sway me towards a Flux or Neo over a Kickr down the road).

the movement is very small... it's not anywhere near like Rock and Roll.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
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Correct. Certainly not close to being as extreme as the rock and roll. There is rock back and forth though that I find to be very nice as opposed to the completely rigid systems I've experienced in the past.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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I have. I had the Kickr for 2 years and sold it to buy a neo this year.

The biggest change I notice in how they ride, is how they adapt to changes in resistance. The Kickr would jump quickly (3-4 seconds) to a resistance and sit there. Whereas the Neo gradually increases over 5-7 seconds to get there. Both take their respective increase times to drop back down.

I like the faster jumps of the Kickr personally. For some shorter intervals or having the erg match certain training videos its nice. Doing 15 on/15 off intervals or something to that effect is almost a disaster as the wattage ends up all over the place. 45 on/30off is fine though, its more than enough time to adjust the resistance up and down.

But the Neo is super quiet. I didn't quite realize how loud my trainers were until I got the neo plugged in and going.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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Which kickr does your gf have? V1 or V2?

blog
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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I used a Computrainer for ages then "upgraded" to a Kickr.
Terrible in terms of accuracy and drift.
Binned it and got a neo.

No regrets, bar probably selling the Computrainer, a neo and the computrainer would be ideal.

(Use SRMs as my PM)
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for your experience (and spntrxi too).
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ddave] [ In reply to ]
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ddave wrote:
I used a Computrainer for ages then "upgraded" to a Kickr.
Terrible in terms of accuracy and drift.
Binned it and got a neo.

No regrets, bar probably selling the Computrainer, a neo and the computrainer would be ideal.

(Use SRMs as my PM)

Accuracy aside which did you think had a better 'feel'?
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [loxx0050] [ In reply to ]
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I posted a few issues with my Kickr 1 in the thread on power spikes, but posting here as well.

I have a first gen Kickr (ie. Kickr 1) and have been using it for about 3 years, mostly with Trainerroad and occasionally with Sufferfest. Until recently I had used powermatch much as I wasn't too bothered by the discrepancy between the Kickr and my Quarq, which was anywhere from 0 to at most 15 watts depending on cadence. When I tried powermatch initially I found it a little slow to adapt and didn't stick with it.

However in December I came across a thread that detailed an "Advanced Spindown" that would deactivate the strain gauge in the Kickr 1 and essentially turn it into a Kickr 2 in terms of how it measures power using a mathematical formula based off the flywheel (?essentially virtual power?). I did the firmware update and the Advanced Spindown" and then as instructed a regular spindown sometime after. The end result is that powermatch seemed to work better with quicker response times, but now the discrepancy between the power on the Kickr and my Quarq has grown. I did a couple of Sufferfest workouts, which doesn't support powermatch at this time, and was congratulating myself how "fit" I was feeling only to later realized that the Kickr was reading about 20 - 30 watts lower than my Quarq. Explanation to my new found fitness!

So I decided to call Wahoo tech support. I got someone on the line and had a long discussion with them. I asked about whether a calibration was possible (they used to sell a calibration kit) but he said this isn't available anymore and not needed on the new gen Kickr's. He said my spindown times looked fine, so belt tension was not an issues. He said that are definitely times the Kickr can read low but I suggested mine seemed very low. Digging deeper with him it sounds like others with Kickr 1's have had similar complaints and he referenced another customer who had the same issue and it resolved when he got a Kickr 3. Unfortunately Wahoo offers no upgrade path but he suggested I go to a shop with the new Kickr's and try it there. Finally, he did give me a code that you input in the iPhone Wahoo software that will allow the strain gauge to be reactivated (code is "ilovesg"). It apparently creates a toggle in the app to turn the strain gauge on or off. The option to enter the code is buried somewhere in the settings menu and I haven't tried it yet.

The other issue I see is documented in the thread related to random power spikes occurring while riding. I won't go into detail here because there is a whole thread on this, but it is annoying. It is unclear if this issue is limited to some of the first gen Kickr's but there don't seem to be many reports of it from newer trainers.

All of this has led me to consider a trainer upgrade. Originally I was thinking to go Kickr 3, so as to have the option to add the Kickr Climb done the road if the reviews of the shipping version turn out to be good. The Climb sounds like it is still at least a month away as Wahoo continues to work on manufacturing issues. However as I've continued to read, it sounds like the Tacx Neo might be the way to go. I used a Kurt Kinetic RocknRoll before I switch to Kickr. I kept the RocknRoll fairly tight (ie. not rocking much), but the slight give did provided a big comfort benefit. It took me a while to get used to the rigidity of the Kickr and a couple of saddle swaps. With the Neo having some give, it should provide a little more comfort. However the accuracy of the Neo is what is most appealing. I'd be really disappointed to get a Kicr 3 only to end up with another big power discrepancy. If the Kickr 3 still had the power spikes, then I would be really upset...

The downside of the Neo is that it is more expensive in North America, although the Clevertraining discount helps. It also looks like it doesn't come with a through axle adapter in the box, which the Kickr 3 does. I just got a new Emonda Disc SLR Project One with dual sided Quarq, and if I want to put this on the trainer will need the through axle adapter. Ditto for my mountain bikes (Niner RKT and Air 9 RDO's). The through axle on the Neo adds another $80 to the price. I do have an extra cassette, so at least don't need that. Also, if the Climb turns out to be the real deal, I might be sorry to not be able to add it.

I almost pulled the trigger on a Neo two nights in a row and am glad I found this thread. It does sound like those that switch from Kickr to Neo have been very pleased.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Kuttermax] [ In reply to ]
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Also thanks for your FYI. While I knew the version 1 had its quirks didn't realize there were plenty having frustrations like you were. Something to keep in mind I might buy a smart trainer end of this year (Black Friday sales) but we'll see if I get there....seems there is always something expensive I've got to fix around the house that kills my recreational fund.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
ddave wrote:
I used a Computrainer for ages then "upgraded" to a Kickr.
Terrible in terms of accuracy and drift.
Binned it and got a neo.

No regrets, bar probably selling the Computrainer, a neo and the computrainer would be ideal.

(Use SRMs as my PM)


Accuracy aside which did you think had a better 'feel'?

The Neo, then the CT, Kickr last.
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ddave] [ In reply to ]
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ddave wrote:
dunno wrote:
ddave wrote:
I used a Computrainer for ages then "upgraded" to a Kickr.
Terrible in terms of accuracy and drift.
Binned it and got a neo.

No regrets, bar probably selling the Computrainer, a neo and the computrainer would be ideal.

(Use SRMs as my PM)


Accuracy aside which did you think had a better 'feel'?

The Neo, then the CT, Kickr last.

Can you explain why?
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Re: New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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This guys uses a Neo for lube testing. 53000km so far!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OkjvguSvlE
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