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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [OldMenTriHarder] [ In reply to ]
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I would probably do 3 of the 4 kicks with fins. You need to develop some ankle flexibility and the fins will help. Do the 4th 50 yard kick without fins if you feel like it. Kicking is not easy but it will benefit you down the road with better body position in the water.
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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I, too, have a very difficult time kicking. It takes me forever to get across the pool and my legs burn like crazy. I also have ankle flexibility issues, especially on the right side, due to surgery and other trauma to that foot/ankle. Is it ok to do 3 of the 4 kick sets with fins, lying on my side, with one arm extended in front and the other arm at my side - 25 on one side, 25 on the other? I can move decently in this fashion. When I swim regularly, my hips and legs stay pretty close to the surface, but I do splay me legs when I breathe, likely to maintain balance, and I know that my kick gives me little propulsion if any! Would love to find a way to make my kick more effective. Thanks for any advice you have!
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [swissymania] [ In reply to ]
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Kicking on your side is a great drill..look down in the water when you're not breathing.

A few things you might try:

Just rotate enough to get the breath...1 goggle in the water and 1 goggle out of the water. Coaches like to say, "you don't need to be checking the weather when you breathe".

Think about brushing your toes through the breath cycle.

The breath cycle needs to be quick enough so that you get your face back in the water about the same time you initiate the pull on the non-breathing side.

The buoy with banded ankles drill should help too.
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Finally got a chance to get some video. Was planning on getting underwater, but a surface video was enough to expose the obvious, it's not even worth uploading for critique - HORRIBLE LEG SPLAY.

Now the really bad news - the lifeguard at the hym has stated that I cannot use leg or ankle banding. The lap pool is only about 4 foot deep, so it's like - WHY? They had never said anything about it the last couple weeks - why is it an issue now?

And other good news, that time for a 50 kick with a center snorkel and w/o a board or fins, was knocked down to about 2:00.

#OldMenTriHarder
#SwimBikeRunLikeABadger
#SwimBikeRunLikeAngels
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [OldMenTriHarder] [ In reply to ]
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Huge improvement on the kick! Way to go!

I'm perplexed by the ankle band issue. Heck, we use them in masters practice in 7-13 foot water. I'd be less surprised by a ban on video...one of the pools I go to says you can't record video in the pool.
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME!?!?!?! Progress? Could it be? Today I did Workout #2 of week #3. (only 2 this week due to holidays, but that's still awesome for me...).
All 8 100s were in the 1:32-1:36 range. Very interesting to me that a buoy (no kick) has exactly the same time now as with no buoy. I think my kick is much smaller and compact now? For reference, I've been at 1:40-1:45 for all distances. I'm curious if others are seeing big differences in time with the buoy. I sense no fishtailing, but that doesn't mean it's not there. I did the entire set breathing left on the way down, and right on the way back, and do see some differences.
For the 150s, 1:34-1:38 (pace/100). Like, WHAT??? Usually after 1,500, I've settled in at least 5+ seconds slower than that. The 50s with the kickboard were just under 1:30. No clue if that's weak, normal, or decent compared to my full stroke.
Then, a "gentle" 300 cool down, in 5:02? Something is working here. I could say I'm just getting back in shape, but this is faster than I've been in the past with far more base.
Still have NO timing between my kick and my arms. Total spazz.
Last edited by: mpderksen: Dec 30, 17 19:17
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [mpderksen] [ In reply to ]
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First session in, think I’m gonna have to do guppy week 1 twice to get up to speed. 4 months out of the pool and last year first year swim training.

This has definitely narrowed in on a core weakness. Could barely get through the warm-up set in 30 minutes but my swims between the 1 arm pulls felt so much smoother with the body roll.

Thanks so much for the effort in this plan, this giveaway me a nice focus for the next couple of months and even though that was tough as hell I already feel like I’m making more progress towards becoming a smoother (and faster) swimmer
Last edited by: philreynolds: Dec 31, 17 5:05
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [philreynolds] [ In reply to ]
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I bought the TYR ankle float. What a wonderful swimming gadget this is! I was unable to do any of the banded exercises last year without sinking miserably and feeling like I was going to drown. I actually gave up on these exercises. But, I can get up and down the pool with this, and the snorkel is helpful in the beginning, too. I do swim 3-5 seconds slower with it, but I'm hopeful this will improve over time. And, compared to last year, it's easier, although I still have to build up my fitness. Swimming after I take it off really shows how my body is moving in the water, especially as I start to get tired and my feet start to cross. Wonderful invention. Love this guppy challenge!

Rachel
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I have a problem when I use the buoy at my ankles. I can swim without fishtailing if i look straight down and don't rotate my body at all. As soon as I think 'I need to be rotatong from the hips' this is when I start to to fishtail. What can I do about this?
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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JoelO wrote:
Your body should rotate for the breath...ideally, you should rotate just enough to have one goggle in and one goggle out of the water when you breathe.

This. Think of keeping your chin tethered to your shoulder, so when the latter rotates upwards, your chin (and head) follows. If you think about leading with your chin, you might not raise your head (if you have that issue) when you breathe.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the advice, Joel. I tried focusing on your breathing tips today as well as trying to brush my toes when I kick - esp when I turn to breathe. I am on week 3, workout 1, so a bit behind the group.

I did some kicking on my side today with fins, head facing down, which went well. I also did more of the banded/floated ankle drill. That drill is not hard for me, and I don't need to breathe as often as when I kick, since I am not working as hard to keep good body position. My hips/legs and ankles feel very high, and I am trying to keep a very tight line. I do not feel like I am fish-tailing much, but I do not know for sure!

Should I be concerned about arm turnover at this point, or should I just focus on the points being made so far in the drills? I know I have very slow arm turnover. I'm not sure if this causes some of my other issues?

Thanks again for your insights! I am definitely feeling better with each workout!
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [swissymania] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! Nice work on your part. First and foremost, do the drills at a speed you can execute them properly.

If you want to work on turnover, add some speed play to your shorter intervals. ie. My coach likes to give us these types of intervals to work on changing speeds...

2x (4x50) 1. fast/easy (by 25) 2. easy/fast 3. all easy 4. all fast ... pick an interval that gives you 10-15 seconds rest on the all easy piece... you'll end up with more rest on the others since you're going faster. Group intervals in our masters practice for this generally range between 50 seconds and 1:10 for scy pool.

2x (4x50) - descend 1-4 and 5-8 on 1 minute (or whatever interval you pick). The intent of this set is to give you practice on how to adjust your turnover while maintaining technique to get progressively faster on each of the 4 50's. Coach likes to tell us to pick a focus point for each successive 50. 1. easy with a technique focus 2. technique focus with a little more intensity 3. Quicker turnover-maybe concentrate on quicker hip turn to help 4. go for it. Maintaining good form while picking up the tempo is something you have to practice. If you don't keep good technique when you pick up the tempo you'll have spent a lot of extra energy without a big pickup in speed.

"All out" 25-100 yd/m sprints (with lots of rest). Those are fun and/or painful depending on how many you do. :) They'll definitely help you work on turnover.

One other tool you might want to look into: the Finis Tempo Trainer. It's basically a metronome that you stick under your swim cap. You can set it to beep at a particular pace and/or stroke cadence. You might dial it in to your current stroke cadence, swim a few 25's, speed it up a little, swim a few 25's etc... Your current turnover rate might be 1 second per hand striking the water (2 seconds for a full stroke cycle)...you would want to speed that up over time to say .75 seconds per stroke (stroke rate of 80/minute). You can see the various stroke rates of the elite level swimmers here:

https://effortlessswimming.com/...rmance-stroke-rates/
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks JoelO for this advice. I did the 50s week 4 guppy challenge workout today. Used your fast/easy, easy/fast... method. It broke things up a bit and made it more fun. Plus it was easier to keep track of the count. The pool was very full today so it it was hard to keep the leave interval, but I did the best I could.
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [Bru] [ In reply to ]
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I agree...mixing it up keeps it interesting.

We (masters group) did a couple of rounds of the 4x50 descend today. Numbers 3 and 4 are always fun because there's a little bit of "racin" involved. :)
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
followed by 50 kick

SIGNIFICANT gains in the kick w/o board and using a center snorkel.

All of these after the one arm drills netted from a couple weeks ago each 50 taking about 4 minutes and near cardiac arrest, to yesterday a couple in low 2 minutes, one under 2, and a low of 1:47.

On the downside, I need to do left arm ~ single arm drills more often. Time to work in at least a couple 50's of these each session.

#OldMenTriHarder
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#SwimBikeRunLikeAngels
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [OldMenTriHarder] [ In reply to ]
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OldMenTriHarder wrote:
Quote:
followed by 50 kick


SIGNIFICANT gains in the kick w/o board and using a center snorkel.

All of these after the one arm drills netted from a couple weeks ago each 50 taking about 4 minutes and near cardiac arrest, to yesterday a couple in low 2 minutes, one under 2, and a low of 1:47.

On the downside, I need to do left arm ~ single arm drills more often. Time to work in at least a couple 50's of these each session.

it's amazing how much progress you make when you trust the system!

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Huge breakthrough on Saturday. Not by me, my 14 y/o daughter put a smack down on me, smoked me by 3 seconds in the 50 free. I'm a proud swim dad!

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Guppy Challenge is going well for me. Got in 3 workouts every week. Two big improvements for me have been 1) I'm not "checking the weather" when I breath. The idea of keeping one side of my goggles in the water has been helpful. And 2) I'm slooowly getting the hang of keeping my feet near the water surface. Swimming with a pull buoy at my ankles is easy, so I'll be much improved if I can keep that same position without the buoy.

I still can't kick worth a darn. I'm trying to use all of the recommended suggestions, but still very little progress. I use Zoomers for half my kicking just so I can get through it. My ankles are very un-flexible. I'm doing a lot of ankle stretching. Hopefully that will help sooner or later.
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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JoelO wrote:
Most pools have spare buoys or you can order one from swimoutlet.com...they're pretty cheap. For the band you can cut up an old inner tube and tie a knot in it.

Another band option - I was making them out of old race swimcaps, just cut the top of the cap off and end up with a loop. They eventually breakdown and snap but I've gotten like a year plus out of them.

To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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JoelO wrote:
.Keep the kick fairly narrow, point your toes as much as possible and try to relax the ankles. Kicking with fins will help your ankle flexibility. I'm not a great kicker but it's improving...right now I'm kicking 25 yards comfortably in 36 seconds...all out time is high 20's. It's sad since I can kick a 50 with fins in 40 seconds without killing myself.

At the risk of asking a dumb question, how is this possible? Is there another way to point toes other than extending the ankle, during which it is not relaxed? I'm wondering which is better / more useful - pointing toes as much as possible, which extends leg length and keeps toe in line with plane of movement (less drag), or relax ankle while kicking, which I imagine provides better propulsion from letting the toes be the end of the whip. Can you say?

To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [Tsunami] [ In reply to ]
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Good question. Good swimmers can do both. AOS folks like us have to find the right balance between the whip generated by a relaxed ankle and somewhat pointed toes/feet. For pure propulsion, I think I get more benefit from the relaxed ankle.
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [Tsunami] [ In reply to ]
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Good idea! I'm going to try that out with my old swim caps.
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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When week 6 workouts will be online?

Not good for us in Europe to get them that late!!!
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [bastri] [ In reply to ]
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bastri wrote:
When week 6 workouts will be online?

Not good for us in Europe to get them that late!!!

Here's the link to LAST YEAR'S (2017) Week 6. He hasn't been changing them much so I assume it's still valid.
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Re: Guppy Challenge Begins! Q&A Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Bump cause it ain't stickied anymore ;)
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