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Re: Garmin FR935 release [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd,

When you get a chance, can you give us your take on the 935, including the optical HR, screen size, weight, etc?

Thanks
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [krez] [ In reply to ]
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krez wrote:
marklemcd wrote:
While a few people would like it, maybe the demand isn't there for something with on board music storage, especially in an age where the fastest growing segment buys no music at all but streams it.


There are a lot of really good use cases for having stored music: Airplans, running, subways. Apparently subways are the reason why Spotify allowed you to download a playlist locally. But if the UI integration is good where you can just click the "Save playlist to my Garmin" button, then I think it would be huge.

The concept of on board music storage doesn't actually make sense to a lot of people, but if you obfuscate it behind something that people do understand, then it works well.

Edit: After some thought, I even more strongly disagree that there isn't a market for this. Every single runner that I know also carries their cell phone so that they can listen to music while they run (and take pictures and use maps, etc, but mainly for music. And my network is not exactly small.)

I think your edit demonstrates why the market is small. I run with a phone so I can call my wife if something goes wrong or vice versa and so I can take photos. It's a benefit that I can listen to music or podcasts. So why do I need it on my watch if I'm bringing my phone anyway to take photos or for emergencies?

And I'm not running or biking in a subway anytime soon so it's not like that's a use case to have it on the watch.

Plus how big will the watch be to have storage?

I just don't see it being a big market.

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
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tgarson wrote:
krez wrote:
It's unfortunate to me that people still buy into the thinking of what a watch is supposed to look like. I don't understand the thought that the Fenix 5 somehow looks better than the 935 simply because it looks more like a Rolex. Personally, I think the Apple watch is by far the most beautiful watch there is. Beauty in simplicity, but I guess generations of opinions don't change over night


You are making a lot of assumptions about my tastes. If I were to buy a Fenix it'd be a 5S not a 5 and definitely not a 5X. As a dude Garmin's decision to market 5S to women seems silly to me, it's a modern clean looking watch versus the clunky wrist furniture of the 5X.

My comments in regards to the aesthetics were because this looks cheap and plasticy to me:




And this does not:


How about two photos showing watch faces on both? That graphic on the 935 makes the watch look tacky anyway. And it wouldn't do anything for the F5 either.

Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [marklemcd] [ In reply to ]
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marklemcd wrote:
krez wrote:
marklemcd wrote:
While a few people would like it, maybe the demand isn't there for something with on board music storage, especially in an age where the fastest growing segment buys no music at all but streams it.


There are a lot of really good use cases for having stored music: Airplans, running, subways. Apparently subways are the reason why Spotify allowed you to download a playlist locally. But if the UI integration is good where you can just click the "Save playlist to my Garmin" button, then I think it would be huge.

The concept of on board music storage doesn't actually make sense to a lot of people, but if you obfuscate it behind something that people do understand, then it works well.

Edit: After some thought, I even more strongly disagree that there isn't a market for this. Every single runner that I know also carries their cell phone so that they can listen to music while they run (and take pictures and use maps, etc, but mainly for music. And my network is not exactly small.)


I think your edit demonstrates why the market is small. I run with a phone so I can call my wife if something goes wrong or vice versa and so I can take photos. It's a benefit that I can listen to music or podcasts. So why do I need it on my watch if I'm bringing my phone anyway to take photos or for emergencies?

And I'm not running or biking in a subway anytime soon so it's not like that's a use case to have it on the watch.

Plus how big will the watch be to have storage?

I just don't see it being a big market.

I'm still not sure I agree. I would guess that the majority of people who run never run far enough away to require a phone call. I do roughly 95% of my running within a few miles of my house or my work and never bring my phone. I would venture most people are in a similar boat (regarding not needing your phone for calling purposes.) Biking, yes I always bring my phone, but that's because if anything happens I won't be able to get home. Not for running though.

Regarding storage, there are sd cards the size of the nail on your pinky finger that can hold 256gb. That's enough to hold over 50,000 songs. If I were to guess, I'd say that the 935 has no more than 2gb of storage. Upgrading that to even 4 or 8gb would cost pennies per watch.

If you truly believe this is a small market, I urge you to consider the common case (ie people other than yourself.)
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [krez] [ In reply to ]
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I think we're all guilty of exaggerating our knowledge of who does what to get our point across at one time or another. We know lots of people run with headphones in. We know lots of people run with telephones. What we don't know is how many of those people are prepared to invest in a watch with the ability to wirelessly play music through headphones from the device.

I'd like to think Garmin (and other GPS watch manufacturers) have done some market research. If that is the case, do they believe that sacrificing storage space and battery life is what their market wants? I'd suggest the answer is they do not. At least they've given you music control from the 935. Apple now have a GPS enabled device that will retain some music and play it back without the iPhone, but the battery life is pretty woeful. Extending battery life means increasing the size of the device so unlikely Apple will go that way. Clearly, even with the volume available in the F5 series, Garmin have decided that perhaps it's not possible to implement the feature in any meaningful way.

Arguably cost of storage is irrelevant if it impacts on the overall functionality of the device.

Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)
Last edited by: PhilipShambrook: Mar 30, 17 23:54
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [PhilipShambrook] [ In reply to ]
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I still think much easier is to include the player into headphones - really not sure why only Bragi included music storage in their headphone
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [PhilipShambrook] [ In reply to ]
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PhilipShambrook wrote:
I think we're all guilty of exaggerating our knowledge of who does what to get our point across at one time or another. We know lots of people run with headphones in. We know lots of people run with telephones. What we don't know is how many of those people are prepared to invest in a watch with the ability to wirelessly play music through headphones from the device.

I'd like to think Garmin (and other GPS watch manufacturers) have done some market research. If that is the case, do they believe that sacrificing storage space and battery life is what their market wants? I'd suggest the answer is they do not. At least they've given you music control from the 935. Apple now have a GPS enabled device that will retain some music and play it back without the iPhone, but the battery life is pretty woeful. Extending battery life means increasing the size of the device so unlikely Apple will go that way. Clearly, even with the volume available in the F5 series, Garmin have decided that perhaps it's not possible to implement the feature in any meaningful way.

Arguably cost of storage is irrelevant if it impacts on the overall functionality of the device.

Perhaps incorporating a music player into one of their less sports focused watches like the vivoactive?
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [R2] [ In reply to ]
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R2 wrote:
I still think much easier is to include the player into headphones - really not sure why only Bragi included music storage in their headphone

I love my Sony MP3 Walkman. No cords, no phone and I can drag and drop music easily.
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [Jimmy B.] [ In reply to ]
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Jimmy B. wrote:
Bryancd,

When you get a chance, can you give us your take on the 935, including the optical HR, screen size, weight, etc?

Thanks

Screen size is nice as it's not as huge as the 920 and it is lighter and thinner then the 735. It has a very low profile. The buttons dont extend too far from the sides. I ran yesterday and the HR data looked spot on and it read my HR consistently with no gaps. Garmin did tell us that people with darker skin may encounter some connectivity issues with the optical HR. I'm pretty tan right now and had no issues so far.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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2nd run this morning using the Run Dynamics pod. So where the 920 had the Run Dynamics sensors built into the unit now they use this small pod to allow for a smaller watch form factor. I assume this is the same pod Fenix users have been using. HR data today was a bit erratic, some big spikes. The pod data also doesn't seem as consistent as it was with the 920. That's a non-issue for me, though, I never found that data particularly actionable. Neat feature, the watch reminds you to take it off.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [R2] [ In reply to ]
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R2 wrote:
I still think much easier is to include the player into headphones - really not sure why only Bragi included music storage in their headphone

Definitely an interesting idea, but just thinking through this: Battery life, weight, and size seem to be a lot more of a concern when it comes to wireless earbuds. Having small earbuds fall out of your ears worries me, so anything you can do to optimize that while also optimizing for battery life is a huge challenge. I've done a decent amount of running with my AirPods, and Apple nailed it. There's way less concern of a watch falling off your wrist, so putting the "brains" there makes a lot more sense to me.
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [krez] [ In reply to ]
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krez wrote:
marklemcd wrote:
krez wrote:
marklemcd wrote:
While a few people would like it, maybe the demand isn't there for something with on board music storage, especially in an age where the fastest growing segment buys no music at all but streams it.


There are a lot of really good use cases for having stored music: Airplans, running, subways. Apparently subways are the reason why Spotify allowed you to download a playlist locally. But if the UI integration is good where you can just click the "Save playlist to my Garmin" button, then I think it would be huge.

The concept of on board music storage doesn't actually make sense to a lot of people, but if you obfuscate it behind something that people do understand, then it works well.

Edit: After some thought, I even more strongly disagree that there isn't a market for this. Every single runner that I know also carries their cell phone so that they can listen to music while they run (and take pictures and use maps, etc, but mainly for music. And my network is not exactly small.)


I think your edit demonstrates why the market is small. I run with a phone so I can call my wife if something goes wrong or vice versa and so I can take photos. It's a benefit that I can listen to music or podcasts. So why do I need it on my watch if I'm bringing my phone anyway to take photos or for emergencies?

And I'm not running or biking in a subway anytime soon so it's not like that's a use case to have it on the watch.

Plus how big will the watch be to have storage?

I just don't see it being a big market.


I'm still not sure I agree. I would guess that the majority of people who run never run far enough away to require a phone call. I do roughly 95% of my running within a few miles of my house or my work and never bring my phone. I would venture most people are in a similar boat (regarding not needing your phone for calling purposes.) Biking, yes I always bring my phone, but that's because if anything happens I won't be able to get home. Not for running though.

Regarding storage, there are sd cards the size of the nail on your pinky finger that can hold 256gb. That's enough to hold over 50,000 songs. If I were to guess, I'd say that the 935 has no more than 2gb of storage. Upgrading that to even 4 or 8gb would cost pennies per watch.

If you truly believe this is a small market, I urge you to consider the common case (ie people other than yourself.)
\

Just look at strava and you see how many people are taking their phones in order to take pictures. It IS the common use case.

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [marklemcd] [ In reply to ]
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marklemcd wrote:
krez wrote:
marklemcd wrote:
krez wrote:
marklemcd wrote:
While a few people would like it, maybe the demand isn't there for something with on board music storage, especially in an age where the fastest growing segment buys no music at all but streams it.


There are a lot of really good use cases for having stored music: Airplans, running, subways. Apparently subways are the reason why Spotify allowed you to download a playlist locally. But if the UI integration is good where you can just click the "Save playlist to my Garmin" button, then I think it would be huge.

The concept of on board music storage doesn't actually make sense to a lot of people, but if you obfuscate it behind something that people do understand, then it works well.

Edit: After some thought, I even more strongly disagree that there isn't a market for this. Every single runner that I know also carries their cell phone so that they can listen to music while they run (and take pictures and use maps, etc, but mainly for music. And my network is not exactly small.)


I think your edit demonstrates why the market is small. I run with a phone so I can call my wife if something goes wrong or vice versa and so I can take photos. It's a benefit that I can listen to music or podcasts. So why do I need it on my watch if I'm bringing my phone anyway to take photos or for emergencies?

And I'm not running or biking in a subway anytime soon so it's not like that's a use case to have it on the watch.

Plus how big will the watch be to have storage?

I just don't see it being a big market.


I'm still not sure I agree. I would guess that the majority of people who run never run far enough away to require a phone call. I do roughly 95% of my running within a few miles of my house or my work and never bring my phone. I would venture most people are in a similar boat (regarding not needing your phone for calling purposes.) Biking, yes I always bring my phone, but that's because if anything happens I won't be able to get home. Not for running though.

Regarding storage, there are sd cards the size of the nail on your pinky finger that can hold 256gb. That's enough to hold over 50,000 songs. If I were to guess, I'd say that the 935 has no more than 2gb of storage. Upgrading that to even 4 or 8gb would cost pennies per watch.

If you truly believe this is a small market, I urge you to consider the common case (ie people other than yourself.)
\

Just look at strava and you see how many people are taking their phones in order to take pictures. It IS the common use case.

It would be interesting to know how many of those people take their phones to listen to music and just take pictures because their phone happens to be with them versus how many people specifically take their phones to take pictures. For me personally, music is the primary goal, and I take pictures just because it's convenient. I never take my phone specifically with the intention of taking pictures. I would be interested to see some data on this.
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [krez] [ In reply to ]
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The reality is that Garmin just buys a 8GB memory chip instead of a 2GB chip. It's not a lot more cost per chip in the quantity they would be buying. The rest is just software. It already has a bluetooth radio in it so that part is done. TomTom already offers music storage and playback in a multisport watch so it's not impossible.

Personally, I like the way Mighty Audio is doing it because they are allowing me to use Spotify. I haven't bought a song in years, I stream everything. I'm not sure if there's a cost to be a Spotify partner, but I would assume there is. Again, probably not a ton of money for Garmin though.

The Apple Watch allows you to sync music from iTunes, including from Apple Music which is like Spotify. It sucks as a sports watch though.

Personally, I'd love to have music on my watch and bluetooth headphones. Maybe the 945 will have it. I plan to get the Might Audio when it's out because for me that's as close to perfect as is currently available.


--Chris
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
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Memory is dirt cheap these days and yet garmin still puts minimal storage on these watches. I strongly suspect it's not a cost thing but a battery thing. I love that I can go a week between charges on my garmin watch or do long events with 1sec gps recording and wouldn't trade that for more storage.
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
2nd run this morning using the Run Dynamics pod. So where the 920 had the Run Dynamics sensors built into the unit now they use this small pod to allow for a smaller watch form factor. I assume this is the same pod Fenix users have been using. HR data today was a bit erratic, some big spikes. The pod data also doesn't seem as consistent as it was with the 920. That's a non-issue for me, though, I never found that data particularly actionable. Neat feature, the watch reminds you to take it off.

Is the backlight on the 935 brighter than the 735? The one on the 735 is pretty lame.
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]
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Mike Alexander wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
2nd run this morning using the Run Dynamics pod. So where the 920 had the Run Dynamics sensors built into the unit now they use this small pod to allow for a smaller watch form factor. I assume this is the same pod Fenix users have been using. HR data today was a bit erratic, some big spikes. The pod data also doesn't seem as consistent as it was with the 920. That's a non-issue for me, though, I never found that data particularly actionable. Neat feature, the watch reminds you to take it off.


Is the backlight on the 935 brighter than the 735? The one on the 735 is pretty lame.

I'm not sure, I never used the 735.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]
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Mike Alexander wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
2nd run this morning using the Run Dynamics pod. So where the 920 had the Run Dynamics sensors built into the unit now they use this small pod to allow for a smaller watch form factor. I assume this is the same pod Fenix users have been using. HR data today was a bit erratic, some big spikes. The pod data also doesn't seem as consistent as it was with the 920. That's a non-issue for me, though, I never found that data particularly actionable. Neat feature, the watch reminds you to take it off.


Is the backlight on the 935 brighter than the 735? The one on the 735 is pretty lame.

It's a much brighter watch side by side w/o backlight.

With backlight, it's still definitely brighter. A different tone of light of course, but definitely brighter.


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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DC: any chance you have a photo comparing the size of the 920 to the 935?
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
2nd run this morning using the Run Dynamics pod. So where the 920 had the Run Dynamics sensors built into the unit now they use this small pod to allow for a smaller watch form factor. I assume this is the same pod Fenix users have been using. HR data today was a bit erratic, some big spikes. The pod data also doesn't seem as consistent as it was with the 920. That's a non-issue for me, though, I never found that data particularly actionable. Neat feature, the watch reminds you to take it off.

Thats not the case at all. The RD data for the 920xt comes from the chest strap not the unit.
Use your old chest strap with the 935xt and it will get the RD data from that same as the 920xt.
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [ddave] [ In reply to ]
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ddave wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
2nd run this morning using the Run Dynamics pod. So where the 920 had the Run Dynamics sensors built into the unit now they use this small pod to allow for a smaller watch form factor. I assume this is the same pod Fenix users have been using. HR data today was a bit erratic, some big spikes. The pod data also doesn't seem as consistent as it was with the 920. That's a non-issue for me, though, I never found that data particularly actionable. Neat feature, the watch reminds you to take it off.


Thats not the case at all. The RD data for the 920xt comes from the chest strap not the unit.
Use your old chest strap with the 935xt and it will get the RD data from that same as the 920xt.


Oh right, I'm sorry I forgot the current strap is the run data one. I'm going to use my strap as the run HR data continues to be a bit choppy for me.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Last edited by: Bryancd: Apr 2, 17 9:45
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone knows if the optical HR sensor on the 935 broadcasts HR through Ant+? It would be nice to be able to pair the 935 to a 520 as a HR sensor. I'm guessing it can't be done though.
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [nchristi] [ In reply to ]
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Yes it does - I cycled to work this morning with the heart rate from my 935 showing on my 820.
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [esuuv] [ In reply to ]
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Nice, thanks.
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Re: Garmin FR935 release [nchristi] [ In reply to ]
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Keep the updates coming - just ordered one.
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