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Two pro women receive doping bans
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http://www.triathlete.com/...nounced-today_298328

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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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No way Lauren took it knowingly. It's retroactive for just 6 months and she just announced she's pregnant so it won't affect her future racing. If the supplement was contaminated and she had no clue, should she still even have the 6 month retroactive suspension? Are athletes expected to test every single supplement they take? The manufacturer of the supplement screwed up, not the athlete.
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Shouldnt they out the salt product that was definitely the source? I'd personally really like to know. Does that company have to explain how it was tainted? Was it a one time error or ongoing?

I find it pretty crazy that they could even definitely identify the source and as such should take full advantage for the consumer. I'm guessing the number of salt products used in the sport is relatively small - meaning I bet other AG and Pro are using that same product. Wouldn't it benefit everyone to know they better be cautious using that stuff. Same as when they warned against meat in Mexico...
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know what is wrong with professional athletes. The very amateur racers on my very amateur team either take pre-tested supplements only or don't take supplements. It's not that hard.
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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At first I thought, "bummer, possible contaminated supplement". Then I looked up what it was and holy crap, why would that be in a salt stick! I hate to be a Troll, but that sounds too fishy.
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [Jnags7] [ In reply to ]
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WTF does a salt tablet have ostarine in it? A quick google indicates this is some sort of cutting edge PED. It can't be cheap. Its unbelievable to me that it would get in a product by accident.
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [davros] [ In reply to ]
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davros wrote:
WTF does a salt tablet have ostarine in it? A quick google indicates this is some sort of cutting edge PED. It can't be cheap. Its unbelievable to me that it would get in a product by accident.
Did you read anything beyond the headline? They were able to test Lauren's salt tablets a day they were contaminated. Neither woman noted in the charges would knowingly put that in their body.
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [DomerTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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DomerTriGuy wrote:
Did you read anything beyond the headline? They were able to test Lauren's salt tablets a day they were contaminated. Neither woman noted in the charges would knowingly put that in their body.
I read every word of the article, and did some (quick) extra research. I read that salt tablets were found to have ostarine in them. What I want to know is is this credible? If so, what the hell is ostarine doing in the tablets? Are these unnamed 'salt tablets' some sort of super dodgy 'salt tablets' containing 'supplements' or 'herbs' that no sensible pro athlete should have taken? Or if they're mainstream salt tablets why the hell do they have ostarine in them? Somewhere something doesn't add up. I'm making no accusation against either of the athletes I'm just saying something somewhere here doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps the answer to one of my questions here will make it clear what has happened...
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [davros] [ In reply to ]
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Mainstream salt tabs and given human nature and the fact there have been enough who have looked for an edge, being skeptical is natural but how does an athlete get to prove their innocence?
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [davros] [ In reply to ]
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Ding ding
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [davros] [ In reply to ]
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davros wrote:
WTF does a salt tablet have ostarine in it? A quick google indicates this is some sort of cutting edge PED. It can't be cheap. Its unbelievable to me that it would get in a product by accident.

see cGMP compliant, versus non-compliant, labs. you package heavy-weight-gainer-leaner-outer, and then you turn off the machine and turn it on again churning out salt tabs, some of what was left in the machine gets into the salt tabs. it matters where these tabs were made and bottled.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
davros wrote:
WTF does a salt tablet have ostarine in it? A quick google indicates this is some sort of cutting edge PED. It can't be cheap. Its unbelievable to me that it would get in a product by accident.


see cGMP compliant, versus non-compliant, labs. you package heavy-weight-gainer-leaner-outer, and then you turn off the machine and turn it on again churning out salt tabs, some of what was left in the machine gets into the salt tabs. it matters where these tabs were made and bottled.


In your article, you (edit: oops, not you, the author) indicated that after 2010, all supplements must be manufactured in cGMP compliant labs. Did that law never go into effect? Are people flouting the law? Is that certification not enough?

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VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
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Last edited by: RowToTri: Feb 3, 17 20:02
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
davros wrote:
WTF does a salt tablet have ostarine in it? A quick google indicates this is some sort of cutting edge PED. It can't be cheap. Its unbelievable to me that it would get in a product by accident.


see cGMP compliant, versus non-compliant, labs. you package heavy-weight-gainer-leaner-outer, and then you turn off the machine and turn it on again churning out salt tabs, some of what was left in the machine gets into the salt tabs. it matters where these tabs were made and bottled.

Wow. So even reputable brand products can really have PEDs in them? And the excuse 'it was in my salt tab/supplements' could be true? Not good.
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [davros] [ In reply to ]
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davros wrote:
Slowman wrote:
davros wrote:
WTF does a salt tablet have ostarine in it? A quick google indicates this is some sort of cutting edge PED. It can't be cheap. Its unbelievable to me that it would get in a product by accident.


see cGMP compliant, versus non-compliant, labs. you package heavy-weight-gainer-leaner-outer, and then you turn off the machine and turn it on again churning out salt tabs, some of what was left in the machine gets into the salt tabs. it matters where these tabs were made and bottled.


Wow. So even reputable brand products can really have PEDs in them? And the excuse 'it was in my salt tab/supplements' could be true? Not good.

Searching for Ostarine on the FDA website found a warning letter from them regarding a few very sketchy supplements. It seems Ostarine is an experimental drug that would not be allowed to be in any kind of supplement. So its not just the weight gainer went through the machine before the electrolytes... http://www.fda.gov/...s/2014/ucm434928.htm

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
VeloVetta is developing AERO cycling shoes with CFD and wind tunnel testing.
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [davros] [ In reply to ]
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A Ban for a pretty obvious accidental dosage seems rediculous. Especially for a sport where the majority of pros don't really make much money. I can't see how this sport continues to survive when you test an unopened over the counter supplement that the athlete takes, find the issue, and still suspend?
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [Rocklintri] [ In reply to ]
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That's the big rub I have with it. If it had just been someone's word, it is harder to believe for those who don't know the athlete. But to have it proven out and still impose the ban leaves a black mark, potential loss in sponsorship money, vacating of wins, the purse and that doesn't even count the loss in time and inability to compete in Worlds. And now we've lost another athlete to this who says she won't be back...disappointing...
Last edited by: DomerTriGuy: Feb 3, 17 20:50
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [DomerTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Neither woman noted in the charges would knowingly put that in their body.


Doesn't everyone say the exact same thing?

You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [davros] [ In reply to ]
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davros wrote:
WTF does a salt tablet have ostarine in it? A quick google indicates this is some sort of cutting edge PED. It can't be cheap. Its unbelievable to me that it would get in a product by accident.

It's a fairly common, readily available over the counter drug used to treat, among other things, osteoporosis. Apparently it's common enough that it is being produced in large enough quantities that the chances of it contaminating another supplement in the same facility is reasonably good. It's not like you need to go to a shady back alley with a bag full of cash to find it.

As for the facilities themselves being tested, apparently in some cases there aren't any unannounced tests done. If you know someone is coming then you'll probably make sure you pass, who knows what happens in between though.

I'm inclined to believe that none of the girls (Lisa included) knowingly took it. As far as I know it clears the body fairly quickly and won't do much to help you during a race. With that in mind it doesn't make much sense to take it before a race when it won't do much for you and there is a chance you'll be tested.
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [v0coder] [ In reply to ]
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Is salt a supplement ? Read Beth's blog , feel sorry for her
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [TheFisher] [ In reply to ]
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TheFisher wrote:
It's a fairly common, readily available over the counter drug used to treat, among other things, osteoporosis. Apparently it's common enough that it is being produced in large enough quantities that the chances of it contaminating another supplement in the same facility is reasonably good. It's not like you need to go to a shady back alley with a bag full of cash to find it.

Can you provide a link to something that justifies the above statement? My googling hasn't found that at all. First of all, wikipedia says it has a brand name of Enobosarm, and describes it as an investigational drug:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enobosarm

According to this, Enobosarm hasn't achieved regulatory approval:

http://www.nature.com/...ox/nbt.3557_BX2.html
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
see cGMP compliant, versus non-compliant, labs. you package heavy-weight-gainer-leaner-outer, and then you turn off the machine and turn it on again churning out salt tabs, some of what was left in the machine gets into the salt tabs. it matters where these tabs were made and bottled.

Dan, do you know what the difference in manufacturing is that makes something like a salt tablet risky, but "normal food" non-risky? For example, bread has vitamin C added to it during manufacturing, so why is consuming a vitamin C tablet a risk for athletes, but eating bread isn't a risk? Are there different legal requirements for any stage of the production process for the two products?
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [TheFisher] [ In reply to ]
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TheFisher wrote:
davros wrote:
WTF does a salt tablet have ostarine in it? A quick google indicates this is some sort of cutting edge PED. It can't be cheap. Its unbelievable to me that it would get in a product by accident.


It's a fairly common, readily available over the counter drug used to treat, among other things, osteoporosis. Apparently it's common enough that it is being produced in large enough quantities that the chances of it contaminating another supplement in the same facility is reasonably good. It's not like you need to go to a shady back alley with a bag full of cash to find it.

As for the facilities themselves being tested, apparently in some cases there aren't any unannounced tests done. If you know someone is coming then you'll probably make sure you pass, who knows what happens in between though.

I'm inclined to believe that none of the girls (Lisa included) knowingly took it. As far as I know it clears the body fairly quickly and won't do much to help you during a race. With that in mind it doesn't make much sense to take it before a race when it won't do much for you and there is a chance you'll be tested.


Its a SARM:


Selective androgen receptor modulators may be used by athletes to assist in training and increase physical stamina and fitness, potentially producing effects similar to anabolic steroids.


You have to apply the rules evenly across the board. Doesn't matter if its a darling of the sport, crowd favorite, friend of a friend who's super nice, etc. If you allow the contaminated supplement excuse to pass (even if its true) then you have to do that for everyone, and that opens the door for an awful lot of 'contaminated' supplements...
There have been plenty of athletes banned for things like DHEA being found in their supplements. Can't be any different for these two athletes.
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [Tricoastal] [ In reply to ]
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Tricoastal wrote:
....Are athletes expected to test every single supplement they take? The manufacturer of the supplement screwed up, not the athlete.

Yes.
Not saying that is easy or necessarily right, but athletes are responsible for -everything- they put in their bodies.

If I were an athlete in this circumstance, and I without a doubt was able to prove it was a contaminated supplement, I'd sure consider suing the manufacturer!
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
You have to apply the rules evenly across the board. Doesn't matter if its a darling of the sport, crowd favorite, friend of a friend who's super nice, etc. If you allow the contaminated supplement excuse to pass (even if its true) then you have to do that for everyone, and that opens the door for an awful lot of 'contaminated' supplements...
There have been plenty of athletes banned for things like DHEA being found in their supplements. Can't be any different for these two athletes.

Yes. We must punish the innocent so it does not open a door for the guilty. Nice.

Cases like this show what a sham anti-doping is. Even when a national ADA acknowledges that an athlete is innocent, they are punished. It is not about stopping athletes from doping. It is PR exercise to swindle the public into thinking something is being done. All that is important is a press release. Hence you get dogshit "doping" products like DHEA on the banned list even though it is useless as an ergogenic; but it is commonly available and is a regular contaminant so we'll be able to announce a lot of doping infractions. Perfect.
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Re: Two pro women receive doping bans [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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Your 2 statements don't make sense though.

So athlete should be punished for taking tainted substance AND should sue product because it had a bad substance?

IF the process finds the athlete did best of their ability to check tablets and only popped because of contaminated substance, the process should clear athlete. If it can be proven, thus why your statement "they should know" and "they should sue" seems to be acknowledging it's a fucked up circumstance.

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