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How is my position?
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Hi STers,

Would appreciate some of your feedback on my position. Any suggestions/feedback?


I'm doing IM Copenhagen in August and it's taken me a few months to get used to riding this position (at least indoors). Definitely getting easier and feeling stronger.

For reference, I'm about 5'9''-5'10'', longish legs (33-34'' inseam). Bike is Trek SC size L (I didn't think there was much difference with medium since I have a relatively tall saddle height and front-end is so adjustable. Crank Arm is 170, considering going lower (or back to 172.5), but don't think it'll do that much.

Thanks!

Youtube link to video position: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL74tX0bxwM&feature=youtu.be


Pics below (sorry, didn't embed the video):







Retul:





Last edited by: tri@thlete: Jan 19, 17 13:31
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Re: How is my position? [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]
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Saddle is too high.
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Re: How is my position? [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
Saddle is too high.

X2

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: How is my position? [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Still learning, how do you guys spot that?

just your average age grouper . no one special . no scientific knowledge . just having fun.
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Re: How is my position? [way2sloow] [ In reply to ]
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Lots of ways. The easiest is to see your foot at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Then there's the fact that Retul fitters always put the saddle too high, and finally comparing your height/inseam with the saddle height you have listed.
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Re: How is my position? [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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x3. You heels are so high in comparison to the ball of your foot. I would say before you lower it, move your saddle forward, because it looks like you are on the nose anyway. Moving the saddle forward will effectively lowers the saddle height. Also I am not a huge fan of elbows significantly forward of a line up the fork, and it looks like yours are definitely that. Have any photos from the front of the bike?
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Re: How is my position? [Tucsontriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Tucsontriguy wrote:
x3. You heels are so high in comparison to the ball of your foot. I would say before you lower it, move your saddle forward, because it looks like you are on the nose anyway. Moving the saddle forward will effectively lowers the saddle height. Also I am not a huge fan of elbows significantly forward of a line up the fork, and it looks like yours are definitely that. Have any photos from the front of the bike?

Arms forward will allow him to get his head down. Minimum pad stack on that frame is like 610mm, so it's the best way to get a faster position without extensive testing.
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Re: How is my position? [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Arms forward will allow him to get his head down. Minimum pad stack on that frame is like 610mm, so it's the best way to get a faster position without extensive testing.[/quote]
Agree, the second photo just screams neck and shoulder tension though, thats why I mentioned it. looks like his upper body is way too tense to hold that position for 5hrs
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Re: How is my position? [Tucsontriguy] [ In reply to ]
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My ass is 4cm farther back and my elbows 4cm farther forward and I've held it for 12 hours. He'll be fine, as long as he trains, especially since he looks to have way less Ben&Jerry's around the mid section.
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Re: How is my position? [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks everyone! I was thinking of putting the saddle a bit forward. I actually switched from a siteaero to the ism attack. I was retuled on the siteaero but not finding it that comfy.

In terms of being too high, I'll try to lower a bit and see if I get more power. I know it's a different position, but I ride a 777m (+11m) on my road bike. I used to think I had to be higher on a tri bike but this time I'm lower. Is it because of the steeper angle on my tri bike (e.g. 79-80 degrees)?

Haven't ridden much outdoors so will see how it feels when weather gets nicer. I was having trouble holding the position very long on my indoor trainer and was considering going back to the fitter.

Thanks again!
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Re: How is my position? [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]
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"I was thinking of putting the saddle a bit forward." i think that's a pretty good idea. try 1cm, then another. no more than that. either 1cm or 2cm.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: How is my position? [way2sloow] [ In reply to ]
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he is rocking so much it looks like he is in a canoe in 3' chop

at 5-9 with 32.5 inseam I am at 72cm saddle height with 170 cranks(that makes a difference too) that comes out to 98.9% GTH for me
Last edited by: jeffp: Jan 19, 17 20:10
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Re: How is my position? [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]
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Is that post retul fit?
Nice to see some morons have gotten hold of the retul system again!
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Re: How is my position? [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]
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I have a question for you? How do you feel coming off the bike to run? Do you have any injuries to your body? What are your goals for the year? When was your last Retul fit session? Why are you not asking your fitter this question? For us fitting in the real world, looking at a rider we can not really tell whether its good or bad position without us first understanding EVERYTHING going on with your body and the bike. When you are able to pump out the power in a efficient aero position, that is a proper bike fit. Do you encounter IT band issues? Or below the knee pain(Patella tendonitis) Be Careful.

Robert Driskell
Certified Master Body Geometry fit Technician
Certified Master Retul Fit Technician
Zipp Service Course Specialist
Bayou Bicycles New Orleans,LA
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Re: How is my position? [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
Tucsontriguy wrote:
x3. You heels are so high in comparison to the ball of your foot. I would say before you lower it, move your saddle forward, because it looks like you are on the nose anyway. Moving the saddle forward will effectively lowers the saddle height. Also I am not a huge fan of elbows significantly forward of a line up the fork, and it looks like yours are definitely that. Have any photos from the front of the bike?


Arms forward will allow him to get his head down. Minimum pad stack on that frame is like 610mm, so it's the best way to get a faster position without extensive testing.

What about a smaller frame? I look again and again, and it just seems as if he's on his dad's bike ...

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
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Re: How is my position? [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe, but only if he finds a stretched position to be uncomfortable and added drop to be sustainable.
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Re: How is my position? [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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I agree,
I don't see where this notion that a stretched position is uncomfortable.
I found it far more comfortable as I was essentially bracing, not sitting on my elbows which I found really uncomfortable.

The problem is, most people hold that exact position for 10 minutes and think I could never hold this in an ironman, but I bet even on the flattest of course your are still shifting about a little, moving your shoulders and arms a little, relaxing and contacting.

The other thing is back strength.

If you really can't hold a stretched position then maybe you need some more back bracing strength, time to practice some deadlifts, just to activated the posterior chain etc.
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Re: How is my position? [Robert Driskell] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all the feedback and comments. This is super helpful and my race is in August, so great to tinker now. I am waiting for feedback from the fitter. He's done a number of my fits the past 6-8 years and I've been fine.

(Knock on wood)
Injury wise, I've been pretty lucky. For the most part nothing the past 12 years of endurance racing/training. 7 Ironman's and around 12 marathons. Not super fast but I've been consistent. Though, I haven't done an ironman since 2013. Had a second kid and focused on breaking a 3 hour marathon (took me 3 tries but I did it).

Started cycling a lot more the past 7-8 months and lifting weights. Deadlifts, push-ups, pull-ups, and squats are regular weekly activities since last Summer. I'm likely lighter and stronger than I've been in a long time but older (41) and don't recover as well (thus listen to TSS and training peaks for well-timed rest).

Here is a pic of my last IM on a S5 (size 56). I'm hoping the Trek SC will be faster since it's a dedicated tri bike. I've ridden road bike with aero clip-ons the last few IM's, but still PB'd (IM Copenhagen: 10:37, IM German: 10:23). Hoping for a faster time on a very fast course, just gotta stay aero/comfortable on a flat course and run well.


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Re: How is my position? [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]
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Well your current position is way better than the one on your S5, so that's a start!
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Re: How is my position? [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Went back to the fitter and we made some adjustments, like move the seat up and down (just a tad). Effectively bringing saddle height from 180mm to 175mm. Everything is really the same (maybe the reach is a little shorter). Thanks for the feedback!

Slow-Mo Video here:

https://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be









Last edited by: tri@thlete: Feb 17, 17 5:17
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Re: How is my position? [Robert Driskell] [ In reply to ]
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Robert

Why did you ask about IT issues?

Thanks in advance!

Jonathan
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Re: How is my position? [SBRinSD] [ In reply to ]
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I'm curious about the IT Band comment too. I've had some Lower it band issues and thought it was from running. Did an Olympic tri, first one, last summer and after finishing, later that day, the hurting began. Nothing twinged during race. Maybe could have been from bike and didn't know it?
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Re: How is my position? [Tig3rMil3s] [ In reply to ]
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High seat will predispose you to ITB issues.
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Re: How is my position? [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]
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Video link doesn't work for me. I'd say lower the saddle and the front end together at least 1cm. Spine angle looks sustainable and your head is in a good position so keep that.
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Re: How is my position? [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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That is what I thought. My fitter raised my seat on me and after a week of riding my ITBS flared up. I have dropped it back down and am starting to build mileage back up.
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