I saw that as well. I want to ask him about how this tape makes tires more aero. Hopefully he will chime in on this thread.

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When talking about "more aero" I think they mean the speed shield is more aero than just the normal nut on the valve stem. I don't think they are implying that the rim tape affects aerodynamics.

It's interesting to me that they are advertising tubeless conversions on zipp carbon clinchers. Are zipp carbon clinchers designed for that?

Can it be used on my HEDs?

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Jets? I'm going to find out.

I have a friend here who has set up his Jet 6+ wheels tubeless using a combination of the American Classic valve and an externally threaded valve extension he found on eBay, without "crushing" the carbon cap. He apparently set them up hand tight, and then relies on his sealant to take care of sealing around the valve. The AC valves come with a curved plastic piece to put under the nut that follows the cap surface better than just the plain nut would do.

The sealing on the Silca valve should be easier since it's a "wedge" as opposed to the AC o-ring style design, plus the Speed Shield should be gentler on the carbon cap...so, I'm going to give it a try and see how it works.

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As per Stan's, basically any clincher wheelset can be made tubeless with special rim tape to seal the spoke holes and tubeless tires (it's the bead on the tire, not a special rim that provides the critical connection).

I used Stan's kit to convert my Ksyriums to tubeless years ago (switched back because the available tires were expensive, rolled slow, and cornered poorly).

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Perfect, let me know how it goes. Anybody used GP4KIIS tubeless?

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I didn't realize Conti had started making a tubeless version of that.

(It's foolish to attempt to use a non-tubeless tire for a road tubeless application).

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It has been done many times on mountain bike tires, how much worse can it be on a road tire? I've had tubeless mountain tires that wouldn't hold air, no matter how much sealant I used.

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They're priced similarly, roll a lot faster and corner quite exceptionally now. See, e.g., Schwalbe Pro One tubeless.

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For the Jet's I've always thought you could slip a sleeve of steel tubing over the valve and down into the fairing so the nut can bear on the tubing and the tubing bears on the alloy rim underneath (tubing would be just longer than the fairing). You get a snug nut without crushing the fairing. I haven't had time to try this yet.

A LOT worse...there's a reason that road tubeless tires needed the development of carbon beads prior to being viable.

It's not about sealing, it's about whether or not the much higher pressures involved are going to pop the bead of the tire off the rim. You don't want to be dealing with that while riding around on pavement at high speeds :-/

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Yeah...I've had that thought before as well.

The cool thing about air pressure is it will do the "snugging" from the inside...once you get it to hold pressure :-)

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10-4. How much faster is the schwable pro one (tubeless) than a GP4K(butyl)?

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Yeah, but I probably smash the valve around enough with pump heads, etc to not want to risk dealing with it. A savvy manufacturer could even permanently weld a nut on the rim under the fairing so you could just thread in the valve from the outside of the rim as you set it up the first time.

Don't know...yet...

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I have had a set of Swiss Side Hadron 800+ converted to tubeless since June or so. Since any stock tubeless valve would have needed TWO extenders to poke through a rim that deep, I had to buy (and cut out the valves) on two Conti 60mm tubes with removable cores at $9 each and the overpriced Stans threaded valve extenders at $26. I didn't find another externally threaded extender that allowed for a removable valve core. The Silca kit appears to be priced reasonably as it includes the tape and cool nut holder too. My nut is threaded on fairly tight against the carbon fairing, but not ridiculously so. There isn't any accompanying bulge and it's held up just fine for several hundred miles. I would prefer to have that 'wedge' instead of the small metal ring though.

I have seen data (not mine) showing the ProOne tubeless to be over a watt faster than GP4000S Butyl and on par with that same tire with latex. More exciting is that it tests better in both tread and sidewall puncture..and that's what is so exciting about the future of tubeless for me even if it is just equivalent Crr to the best current tires with latex, but at a higher safety margin.

I think Tom covered it, but our 0.5 watt savings claim is for the SpeedShield and not the tape...although the tape really works well as a standard rim tape and is lighter and thinner than traditional tape so it makes tire installation a bit easier. I think you guys will really appreciate the SpeedShield concept, it completely eliminates rattles and if you are using it with latex tubes, we find that having the nut on the rim side really does an amazing job of protecting the inner-tube where the valve stem attaches. From our work with shops and athletes, we found the biggest latex inner tube complaint (other than difficult installation) was the ultimate failure of the tube where the valve stem attaches which was generally caused not by cutting by the valve hole, but by repeated stressing from attaching and removing the pump chuck.

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Nearly every mountain bike tire that doesn't have a tubeless specific bead will blow off the rim if you pump them up high enough. I don't mean 150 psi, I mean half that. Since there's no reason to ride them with a very high pressure, it's typically a non issue. I have blown two different non-sct 2.25" Kendas off a Stan's rim around 40psi when seating the tires for their initial tubeless setup.

While 60 psi in a 2.3" tire and 60 psi in a 23mm (imperial and metric in the same sentence!!) exert different stresses on the rim, the pressure needed for a 23mm tire to be at a ridable pressure is enough to blow it right off the rim. The beads aren't designed for it. The beads stretch and the tire blows off. It's literally a small explosion and you would get hurt if you had your hands on the wheel.

I suspect there's a crossover point where you could safely use something like a standard (non tubeless rated) 28-30mm tire at 50-60psi without any worries, but I don't want to find test that out on my own.

If there's only an ~1W difference in that testing protocol between a tire with butyl vs. latex, then I think it may be underestimating the actual on-road differences. We would need to see the protocol to see where the difference lies. In any case, that's encouraging about the ProOne. Still not as fast as a Turbo Cotton or SuperSonic with latex, though ;-)

On the failure of the latex tubes in the valve area...I have to say, I think I've only ever had one tube eventually fail that way, and I pump my everyday tires up (with latex inside)...well..pretty much every day.

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The puncture resistance (or perhaps more accurately, the ability of tubeless sealant to fix punctures on the fly) is also a significant advantage. The increased air volume and ability to run a lower pressure without risking pinch flats is another.

Case in point: A few weeks into my switch to tubeless and running Pro Ones on Aeolus TLR wheels, a buddy decided to lead me up a dirt path "shortcut" instead of taking the normal route up a local 3 mile climb. We were transitioning a bunch between curbs and the dirt and when I got to one of the curbs, I got my front wheel over fine but speed was low and I pulled a fred and fully slammed my rear wheel right into the edge of the curb. I would venture to guess that with a clincher wheel, there is a 90% chance that I would have pinch flatted right then and there. With the tubeless? Nothing, just kept riding along.

I'm a convert. Well except on the TT bike, as there seem to be faster clincher/latex combos and even if there was a faster tubeless tire option, I am not yet aware of a tubeless disc wheel. Oh and track of course - tubulars there. Oh and cyclocross. But other than that, tubeless is the bee's knees.

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Ok...so I'm not the only one to experience this. So far I've had better luck as long as I make sure to push down on the tire/tube/valve when attaching the pump head. Each time I tore a latex tube as you mentioned it was when I didn't use my race wheels for a while and let the tubes go flat. When attaching the pump head, and pushing in on the valve head, it seemed to tear the area right around the valve. I can see how your extenders with speedshield can help prevent this.

Don't forget that:
A.) Latex tubes are much less likely to pinch flat than butyl (which is part of the myth of tubulars pinch flatting less than clinchers)
B.) It's OK to run sealant in them as well ;-)

I'm not following how tubeless results in "increased air volume" as compared to the same size clincher tire...

Don't get me wrong...if someone finally makes a tubeless tire as fast as the Turbo Cottons with latex, I will probably run them at some point on my road bike, especially for certain events (such as the Belgian Waffle Ride :-)

This thread wasn't started to debate the pros/cons of tubeless though...it was to discuss the new Silca offerings. That said, though, if we're going to discuss any possible advantages of the technology, then I think it's important to also discuss the drawbacks.

IME, the main drawbacks or road tubeless have been:

1.) Most road punctures don't actually seal...especially if you continue riding on it. If the size of the hole is near 1mm or greater, then you MAY be able to get it to "clot" by stopping and rotating the tire so the sealant can work...but, as soon as you start riding the flexing of that "clot" will eventually cause it to fail again. That said, if the majority of the punctures you suffer are from things like goatheads, then it'll work fairly well...then again, so do latex tubes against that. So, in the end, the result is having to stop and swap in a tube. I have suffered 3 punctures with road tubeless setups, all of which required a tube swap. Which, brings up the biggest drawback...

2.) They are a royal PITA to swap a tube into on the side of the road. Not only are the beads necessarily tight (to work as road tubeless) but the sealant makes a total mess of everything.

So...in many ways, running latex tubes in clincher tires gives the majority of the advantages of tubeless for the road (ability to run lower pressures without worry of pinch flatting, can effectively run sealant) while giving (at present) better choices in regards to other tire properties...all while not suffering the drawbacks.

But...my mind is still open and I'll try the new tires as they come along :-)

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"I am not yet aware of a tubeless disc wheel."

Any Hed Jet Plus disc can be set up tubeless quite easily ... easier, in fact, than any other Hed Jet Plus wheel. Been there, done that. It's NICE!!!


Why not tubeless on your cross bike?

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Stay aero my friends.