When will ridiculous entry fees end or when will demand fade

Triathlon Forum
84

I actually spoke with Slowman and then Andrew Messick last spring and suggested that the Ironman and 70.3 well could potentially dry up if grass roots racing continued to decline. My thoughts were the stakeholders, including the WTC, in various geographic areas and markets should actually collaborate to help grow the Tri market. I maintain that is still an option that should be explored because there are no losers in doing that. The grass roots grows, some of the new triathletes will aspire to 140.6 or 70.3, retailers sell bikes, running shoes etc. We have been facilitating those talks locally with our governing body, coaches, clubs and retailers.

I hear you but, just to be clear, there were three reasons we added the “supported training days”.

  1. In response to some suggesting race fees were too high

  2. To offer an opportunity to people who were considering a triathlon but did not want the anxiety that some get over the notion they HAD to compete.

  3. To offer an opportunity to train for a longer race, like we did in the old days. We used to “race small” and immediately after finishing add a long run or ride to the day. That way we had more race experience, yet didn’t give up a big training day.

I hear what you are saying about how popular, or not, this option will be but, will probably keep the train day option as it gives our athlete/customers another option without adding additional costs for us.

85

We helped Bard and Tara when they launched Tri Kids and that series has grown and become national in scope. They continue to see growth in kids racing. The disconnect comes when the kids become adolescent and young adults. So, while they see growth in that market, it does not translate to the kids become “triathletes”. We are actually sitting down to discuss this in October and brainstorm ways in which we can make adult racing attractive.

As I mentioned in the reply to Gman above, we continue to try and be a catalyst and facilitator for growth in our market. Our sport is very niche and collaboration to help growth is nothing but a win/win. As naive as it may sound this can also happen between two competing race series or even a juggernaut such as the WTC and grass roots regional races.

I am off to now to the race site and will see you, along with 700 other registered athletes at Barrelman.

If anyone wants to follow along we will have live race day coverage at http://niagarafallstriathlon.com/2015-barrelman-race-coverage/

86

We helped Bard and Tara when they launched Tri Kids and that series has grown and become national in scope. They continue to see growth in kids racing. The disconnect comes when the kids become adolescent and young adults. So, while they see growth in that market, it does not translate to the kids become “triathletes”. We are actually sitting down to discuss this in October and brainstorm ways in which we can make adult racing attractive.

We have the Toughkids series here in the US and it does well. The problem I see with the disconnect is a few things:

  1. High school sports - Way to many “better” triathlon kids “focus” on just one sport when they hit high school. Its either swim all year or run all year. Very few do XC, swim, track. ITs either club swim, swim team, club swim or XC, Indoor track, outdoor track. You also lose a lot of kids that “play everything” in elementary school and middle school and then focus on just high school sports. (i.e. football, lacrosse etc.)

  2. There are not a lot of “teen” races. We have the Toughteen and Westchester Super Sprint in our area, but other than that its kids races directly to sprints.

  3. Its not a team sport in school, so the kids would rather do a sport with their friends than train by themselves or with their parents.

The way to bridge the gap from kids to adults is to have high school teams.

87

I actually spoke with Slowman and then Andrew Messick last spring and suggested that the Ironman and 70.3 well could potentially dry up if grass roots racing continued to decline. My thoughts were the stakeholders, including the WTC, in various geographic areas and markets should actually collaborate to help grow the Tri market. I maintain that is still an option that should be explored because there are no losers in doing that. The grass roots grows, some of the new triathletes will aspire to 140.6 or 70.3, retailers sell bikes, running shoes etc. We have been facilitating those talks locally with our governing body, coaches, clubs and retailers.

1,000,000% agree with this. WTC needs the local races to be popular and do well because that’s where the vast majority of triathletes get their start, and eventually they might move up to the 70.3 and IM distance… where WTC is the thoroughly dominant industry leader. It’s still a bit of a Catch-22 for WTC. You don’t want too much competition from a business perspective but you need the “competition” at the local sprint and oly level. Not sure how they can help foster that growth at the local level. I think they attempted to do that with the 5150 series (despite everyone’s doom and gloom thoughts on that) but it just went totally sideways on them. I can see them not wanting the competition at the 70.3 or 140.6 distance though.

88

…I think I know what race you’re talking about in NJ!

Truth is, the pricing system was WAY in the athletes favor when registration opened last November. That $145 race was $55 on opening day. Some 300+ took advantage of it. Steadily though the year we build in price increases as a way to get the athlete to click the “submit” button. But, that race, Tri the Wildwoods, is an animal unto it’s own. Do you know how many people signed up just two weeks prior to the race, at the full price of $145?..over 300. That’s insane. As a RD, I want my athletes early, not late. I want to know how many are coming so I can be better prepared as well as have a longer dialogue through the summer ie training opportunities, information regarding the race, and to allow them to get to know who they are entrusting with their investment.

There are a whole host of other reasons why a sprint race would cost that much. The Wildwood event takes place in August along the southern Jersey shore. For that event to be great we CLOSE the roads so cyclists are guaranteed safety. We’re talking 30 intersections all staffed to the nines. We have a professional traffic company come in to do the road closures that extends to the causeway which connects the mainland to the island…that costs big bucks. Why can’t we do it ourselves? #1 the city used to do it, but now, in our litigious society they do not want the liability AND we are not licensed and insured to close roads or cone off streets ourselves. Seriously. In order to do so in North Wildwood you must follow MUTCD standards and we do not have the qualifications to do this. When I started the race in 2004…I didn’t even have a permit!

I have been doing this for only 12 years, and I have found that if you are going to produce a race at the highest level possible, you are going to spend a lot of money in doing so. For example, I shut down major highways, causeways, and rent huge ferry’s not to mention produce these events in heavily populated areas during peak tourism season…not your run of the mill $65 entry fee type of stuff.

One more thing, when I started doing this in 2004 there were 2-4 races per month in Southern New Jersey. Now, there are 2-4 races per weekend. That left me 2 choices: join the herd and just produce a local race…totally cool, nothing wrong with it. Or, decide to try and make a mark in the tri world, try to produce an event(s) that gave our tri community something to be proud of. I chose to take a shot at going big or going home. So far, it has worked, but I am absolutely aware of the limits placed on athletes and their wallets and from what I can sense from them they are very appreciative of the attention to detail, the paramount attention we give to their safety, and the overall experience of being a part of a great event.

But, I can’t lie. I did my first race in 2 years this summer…and it was free. Manland Tri, Stone Harbor, NJ. 55 people off the back deck of Buzz’s house…and it was amazing.

89

Interesting thread.

yep; i’d love for an economist to pick apart the sport a bit.

There are all sorts of economic principles and factors at play in this situation. I’ll mention a two just for interest’s sake.

  1. Ironman/WTC have put themselves in a position where they have a product that can’t be substituted. They run the ‘world championships’, and like another poster mentioned they’ve got the ‘You are an Ironman’ tag that others simply do not. They took a big part of what attracts people to triathlon (recognised accomplishment, i.e. ‘I’m an Ironman’ or ‘I competed in a World Championships’) and branded it.

  2. People putting together new races face large barriers to entry. If demand for triathlon races is high enough, you’d expect new races to appear. But it’s hard to put together a new race - you have to find a course, get approvals, insurance, volunteers, market to athletes, etc. etc. etc. and from the sounds of things there’s not a lot of money to be made anyway.

So the basic situation is that whatever you’re looking for (local race or the whole Ironman/WTC experience), supply is limited, so when demand increases, prices will just go up.

Other relevant concepts include things like economies of scale, regulatory burden, seasonal demand, network externalities. A whole bunch of behavioural economics concepts could be used to explain the increase in demand for these races.

I would say that if you wanted to get the prices for races down, you shouldn’t look to Ironman/WTC, but lobby your local governments to create laws that facilitate endurance sports events (cite health benefits for general population, $ benefit of people coming to the area etc.) and lobby your local triathlon federation to begin assisting event organisers to create new events (particularly with the legal/liability side of things).

90

This year the RD for Challenge AC held two training days with led and supported bike previews for both the half and the full. Afterward I bet most of us spent $$ eating at the local establishment that let us use their parking lot. It was so much fun talking with others training for that race, talking about what other events we’d done, finding out who we knew in common. I can’t imagine the RD made money, since there was no charge and we got a free beer if we stayed to eat. But a wonderful sence of community was fostered that day. I’d pay to do that again. But that was for a 70 or so mi preview of a 112 couse. I wouldn’t pay to bike less than 50 miles if it weren’t a race. Similarly, I don’t tend to pay to run a 5k or 10k because I can too easily run that without the crowds, the t shirt or the finishers medal that has no meaning to me.

So I guess my suggestion would be to run training bricks if the distance is overall shorter. There are few places for public open water swimming where I am, so I think pairing swimming with biking would work in NJ/South East PA. Maybe that’s not the case in Ontario…

91

I agree that most races are priced better when they first open and I tend to procrastinate on signing up.

I am also aware that it takes a lot of effort to put the races on and I can’t thank all RD for doing so!

I just think it’s starting to price a lot of people out of the sport. It is already geared towards the upper income bracket. A

92

Dollars are relative, but yes I find racing to be expensive. With three in college, it really puts the pinch on me and I really enjoy local sprint races that I can do for $50-$60. There aren’t many “small” races that do Oly’s and above unfortunately. Numbers for these races are on the decline for sure and I’m not sure about Ironman branded races since I’ve never done one, nor have I been to one. To me it would seem given these low cost races are falling apart with dwindling numbers says it isn’t solely a $$ issue. I really enjoy triathlons but I’ve considered jumping into other sports because like swimming, biking and running by themselves because the race costs are much less… as some of my roadie friends point out I’d probably make money at cycling events. :slight_smile:

93

If you are en executive making 200,000+ per year. $1000 for a race really is not that bad.

If you are an executive making 500,000+ per year. $1000 and $10,000 for a new bike every year is not bad

If you are an executive making $3,000,000 cash plus options - hell you could buy a new P5 for every race and not feel it.

94

What has happened in Houston is pretty interesting. There has been a large increase in the number of races. but the tipping point was met because two of the longest tenured races are gone (sugar land try and Tejas - actually I heard Tejas is gone, is it for certain?).

i think in a few years we are going to be left less local races, but the quality is going to be much higher. Obviously I have a bias but the onurmark races and the TROIKA races are really well run. I personally like the low frills approach - I’ve done an Andy Stewart every year - but I understand that the mass appeal for that kind of race is low.

In the end what I think the data supports is that people want an event, not just a race. And an event costs more money to put on and, well, more money to enter…

95

In the end what I think the data supports is that people want an event, not just a race. And an event costs more money to put on and, well, more money to enter…

+1
IMO, for most people, a necessary part of what classifies a race as an “event” is for it to be instantly recognisable to their colleagues at work. They want to be able to say the name of the race and that be all the explanation required.
That means a brand name, and “Ironman” is the sole player in the tri world with a big enough brand to have permeated the layman’s vocabulary (perhaps Challenge to a lesser degree).

I believe it’s why Tough Mudder etc have become popular, the name itself explains the challenge due to the level of branding.

This also explains why local races can often never compete, no matter how much of an “event” they put on. These races just don’t carry the casual kudos.

96

My understanding for Tejas is that the water treatment plan for the lake is changing and the lake will no longer be safe/acceptable for swimming. I believe Out-Loud would have continued putting on the event but unfortunately lost the swim venue. Hopefully they come up with an alternative - maybe moving the swim down to Sugar Land Memorial Park.

Onurmark seem to hit a sweet spot between the big event feel and production values providing the right balance between competitive races and great support for first timers. They appear to go from strength to strength - and having branched out into putting on a running race series now have an avenue to maybe encourage straight runners to try a triathlon - a smart marketing strategy. They are not the cheapest in the area but are well worth the cost.

I think Andy Stewart’s events cater to a different crowd - he definitely markets his events as beginner friendly and the smaller scale does make them very welcoming. They are well put on and serve as a great entry to the sport - 23 years and going strong so he must be doing something right.

I believe there is room and a need for all these different types of events because they serve different needs. As in everything in life you pays your money and make your choice. I’d like a Porsche but I drive a 12 year old Ford. I’d like to enter IM events but I enter local events.
Life is not fair I guess #firstworldproblems

97

I think Andy Stewart’s events cater to a different crowd - he definitely markets his events as beginner friendly and the smaller scale does make them very welcoming. They are well put on and serve as a great entry to the sport - 23 years and going strong so he must be doing something right.

I agree that Andy does things right. But, Andy lost memorial hermann for his sponsorship for his summer race so that race is no more. And his numbers for TriAndy’s are only okay. SOOOO: sign up! I’ll be there!

98

Sorry to hear about the summer race going away - with the pool swim that seemed a great event for first timers.
Already signed up for the 18th - I’m cheap, so I usually sign up for races a year in advance to get the cheapest entry!
Plus this is my local race - 1.5 miles from my door, so I can ride down to the venue in the morning.
See you there.

99

I think using Trifind as your data base isn’t going to give an accurate representation. Seems like the WTC races used to be on there, and are not anymore. The big tri series in the Austin area is not on there. I don’t know if they charge or if race organizations just feel like they don’t need to put their races on there. Which is too bad, since I use it a lot to look for out of state races.

100

I think using Trifind as your data base isn’t going to give an accurate representation. Seems like the WTC races used to be on there, and are not anymore. The big tri series in the Austin area is not on there. I don’t know if they charge or if race organizations just feel like they don’t need to put their races on there. Which is too bad, since I use it a lot to look for out of state races.

That is my concern with the quality of the data, as well. I personally use TriFind as a “go to” for finding races, but I don’t know why it appears to be drying up there. It seems like maybe they hiked their listing fees up in 2013 or something. That leads to the question as to where the best place to find races is, which is a discussion for another thread.

101

And you put together a hell of a race. I did ETC last year, wanted to do it again this year and then saw a 24% increase. Costs are up 24% in 1 year? Last year’s Ironman Princeton 70.3 was only $20 more. I understand you can get away with it (last year it sold out in 36 hours and I’m sure this will sellout in a week or 2) but come on. Does the cost increase have anything to do with the ETL cancellation?

102

I touched on a similar issue re: a complete race listing in a different thread about a month ago.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=5698659;search_string=;#5698659

I think that this is something that we as a ST community can do a good job of actually.
Between us, I’d be willing to bet that we’re aware of the vast majority of races across our geographical footprint (which is pretty big!)

103

Last year opened at $169 and closed at $229.
This year opened at $189 and currently sits at $209.
This is an 11% increase.

If you compare this race to similar races (in size and scope) Escape the Cape is the clear value leader.

The cancellation of EFL has zero to do with our increase. The increase is due to our consistent investment in what we do in terms of hiring the best staff and investing consistent upgrades to our equipment. What I will tell you is…this event will be set at this price for quite some time. I’d be more than happy to explain the minutia of what goes into an event like this and why things are…the way they are. You know me, you know I won’t BS my athletes. Hit me up any time.