When people like you stop paying I guess. If you’re willing to buy at that price why should they lower it?
What oly is charging $700?
Escape from Alcatraz.
YGTBSM!!
It’s actually $750, so you can shit even more.
In USD!!! That is $1,000 CDN. Glad I don’t do triathlons anymore.
The Triathlon bubble will burst soon…
You may be right but I’ll say I’ve been in the sports since the late 90s and people have been saying that ever since.
I would bet that the Mud Run and Spartan Race bubble will burst sooner than the
triathlon bubble.
Mt. Tremblant, Muskoka, Chattanooga and Maryland didn’t exist 5 years ago.
IMMT yes but Muskoka is a 70.3, people doing lake placid ain’t going to do Chatt, Maryland maybe.
Muskoka has both.
Personally, I think you get more value out of paying a lot for a big event. What are you even paying for at a small local event where the roads aren’t even closed and you’re practically by yourself out there on the roads? What’s the point? I can do that for free.
Out of pure boredom, I did some analysis of year-to-year race counts from 2008 to 2015 on TriFind.com:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hh9SvXvZpnIglbeRSDu1qZfN8HC3UxI4CTwpW_kmypU/edit?usp=sharing
Hopefully, folks can get to that link. Some caveats/disclaimers:
- The first chart is all races of all types, state-by-state and then added up. So, this includes mud runs, trail runs, etc. - anything that is listed on TriFind.com. Because this is state-by-state, it does not include international events.
- The last chart is the sum of the Sprint, Oly, Half, and Full numbers. These charts include international events.
- This obviously not hugely scientific - I don’t know what factors influence what races get included on TriFind.com. Perhaps they charge to list events and that cost has increased?
- This also doesn’t have anything to do with race costs, but just number of available races, for what it’s worth.
- The data is on the second tab, if you want to see the state numbers.
Looking at the number of all kinds of racing, it seems that endurance events have declined since 2013, and fairly significantly. Looking at the triathlons, specifically, the number of available events peaked in 2011, particularly with sprint and Olympic distances. Sprints have dropped off to before the 2008 levels, and Olys have dropped off to the 2009 level. Half-Iron and Full-Iron races had a bit different trend, mostly growing until 2014.
Like I said, I don’t know how much of this is actual race numbers or numbers of races being added to TriFind.com, but found it interesting.
Averages can be deceptive. 2 lawyers at $250k/yr and 8 supermarket cashiers @$25/yr will bring the average up to $90k/yr.
A median would have been a better metric if the incomes are skewed towards the extremes which they are in the western world circa 2015.
Averages can be deceptive. 2 lawyers at $250k/yr and 8 supermarket cashiers @$25/yr will bring the average up to $90k/yr.
A median would have been a better metric if the incomes are skewed towards the extremes which they are in the western world circa 2015.
You mean 70k is the average salary of those 10 people, if cashiers make 25k a year.
What oly is charging $700?
Escape from Alcatraz.
It was $325 in 2007.
Yep, and in 2008!! thats an even steeper price rise than Ironman.
Yes, a math fail here. But it is still illustrative, hopefully.
I actually spoke with Slowman and then Andrew Messick last spring and suggested that the Ironman and 70.3 well could potentially dry up if grass roots racing continued to decline. My thoughts were the stakeholders, including the WTC, in various geographic areas and markets should actually collaborate to help grow the Tri market. I maintain that is still an option that should be explored because there are no losers in doing that. The grass roots grows, some of the new triathletes will aspire to 140.6 or 70.3, retailers sell bikes, running shoes etc. We have been facilitating those talks locally with our governing body, coaches, clubs and retailers.
I hear you but, just to be clear, there were three reasons we added the “supported training days”.
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In response to some suggesting race fees were too high
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To offer an opportunity to people who were considering a triathlon but did not want the anxiety that some get over the notion they HAD to compete.
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To offer an opportunity to train for a longer race, like we did in the old days. We used to “race small” and immediately after finishing add a long run or ride to the day. That way we had more race experience, yet didn’t give up a big training day.
I hear what you are saying about how popular, or not, this option will be but, will probably keep the train day option as it gives our athlete/customers another option without adding additional costs for us.
We helped Bard and Tara when they launched Tri Kids and that series has grown and become national in scope. They continue to see growth in kids racing. The disconnect comes when the kids become adolescent and young adults. So, while they see growth in that market, it does not translate to the kids become “triathletes”. We are actually sitting down to discuss this in October and brainstorm ways in which we can make adult racing attractive.
As I mentioned in the reply to Gman above, we continue to try and be a catalyst and facilitator for growth in our market. Our sport is very niche and collaboration to help growth is nothing but a win/win. As naive as it may sound this can also happen between two competing race series or even a juggernaut such as the WTC and grass roots regional races.
I am off to now to the race site and will see you, along with 700 other registered athletes at Barrelman.
If anyone wants to follow along we will have live race day coverage at http://niagarafallstriathlon.com/2015-barrelman-race-coverage/
We helped Bard and Tara when they launched Tri Kids and that series has grown and become national in scope. They continue to see growth in kids racing. The disconnect comes when the kids become adolescent and young adults. So, while they see growth in that market, it does not translate to the kids become “triathletes”. We are actually sitting down to discuss this in October and brainstorm ways in which we can make adult racing attractive.
We have the Toughkids series here in the US and it does well. The problem I see with the disconnect is a few things:
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High school sports - Way to many “better” triathlon kids “focus” on just one sport when they hit high school. Its either swim all year or run all year. Very few do XC, swim, track. ITs either club swim, swim team, club swim or XC, Indoor track, outdoor track. You also lose a lot of kids that “play everything” in elementary school and middle school and then focus on just high school sports. (i.e. football, lacrosse etc.)
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There are not a lot of “teen” races. We have the Toughteen and Westchester Super Sprint in our area, but other than that its kids races directly to sprints.
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Its not a team sport in school, so the kids would rather do a sport with their friends than train by themselves or with their parents.
The way to bridge the gap from kids to adults is to have high school teams.
I actually spoke with Slowman and then Andrew Messick last spring and suggested that the Ironman and 70.3 well could potentially dry up if grass roots racing continued to decline. My thoughts were the stakeholders, including the WTC, in various geographic areas and markets should actually collaborate to help grow the Tri market. I maintain that is still an option that should be explored because there are no losers in doing that. The grass roots grows, some of the new triathletes will aspire to 140.6 or 70.3, retailers sell bikes, running shoes etc. We have been facilitating those talks locally with our governing body, coaches, clubs and retailers.
1,000,000% agree with this. WTC needs the local races to be popular and do well because that’s where the vast majority of triathletes get their start, and eventually they might move up to the 70.3 and IM distance… where WTC is the thoroughly dominant industry leader. It’s still a bit of a Catch-22 for WTC. You don’t want too much competition from a business perspective but you need the “competition” at the local sprint and oly level. Not sure how they can help foster that growth at the local level. I think they attempted to do that with the 5150 series (despite everyone’s doom and gloom thoughts on that) but it just went totally sideways on them. I can see them not wanting the competition at the 70.3 or 140.6 distance though.
…I think I know what race you’re talking about in NJ!
Truth is, the pricing system was WAY in the athletes favor when registration opened last November. That $145 race was $55 on opening day. Some 300+ took advantage of it. Steadily though the year we build in price increases as a way to get the athlete to click the “submit” button. But, that race, Tri the Wildwoods, is an animal unto it’s own. Do you know how many people signed up just two weeks prior to the race, at the full price of $145?..over 300. That’s insane. As a RD, I want my athletes early, not late. I want to know how many are coming so I can be better prepared as well as have a longer dialogue through the summer ie training opportunities, information regarding the race, and to allow them to get to know who they are entrusting with their investment.
There are a whole host of other reasons why a sprint race would cost that much. The Wildwood event takes place in August along the southern Jersey shore. For that event to be great we CLOSE the roads so cyclists are guaranteed safety. We’re talking 30 intersections all staffed to the nines. We have a professional traffic company come in to do the road closures that extends to the causeway which connects the mainland to the island…that costs big bucks. Why can’t we do it ourselves? #1 the city used to do it, but now, in our litigious society they do not want the liability AND we are not licensed and insured to close roads or cone off streets ourselves. Seriously. In order to do so in North Wildwood you must follow MUTCD standards and we do not have the qualifications to do this. When I started the race in 2004…I didn’t even have a permit!
I have been doing this for only 12 years, and I have found that if you are going to produce a race at the highest level possible, you are going to spend a lot of money in doing so. For example, I shut down major highways, causeways, and rent huge ferry’s not to mention produce these events in heavily populated areas during peak tourism season…not your run of the mill $65 entry fee type of stuff.
One more thing, when I started doing this in 2004 there were 2-4 races per month in Southern New Jersey. Now, there are 2-4 races per weekend. That left me 2 choices: join the herd and just produce a local race…totally cool, nothing wrong with it. Or, decide to try and make a mark in the tri world, try to produce an event(s) that gave our tri community something to be proud of. I chose to take a shot at going big or going home. So far, it has worked, but I am absolutely aware of the limits placed on athletes and their wallets and from what I can sense from them they are very appreciative of the attention to detail, the paramount attention we give to their safety, and the overall experience of being a part of a great event.
But, I can’t lie. I did my first race in 2 years this summer…and it was free. Manland Tri, Stone Harbor, NJ. 55 people off the back deck of Buzz’s house…and it was amazing.
Interesting thread.
yep; i’d love for an economist to pick apart the sport a bit.
There are all sorts of economic principles and factors at play in this situation. I’ll mention a two just for interest’s sake.
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Ironman/WTC have put themselves in a position where they have a product that can’t be substituted. They run the ‘world championships’, and like another poster mentioned they’ve got the ‘You are an Ironman’ tag that others simply do not. They took a big part of what attracts people to triathlon (recognised accomplishment, i.e. ‘I’m an Ironman’ or ‘I competed in a World Championships’) and branded it.
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People putting together new races face large barriers to entry. If demand for triathlon races is high enough, you’d expect new races to appear. But it’s hard to put together a new race - you have to find a course, get approvals, insurance, volunteers, market to athletes, etc. etc. etc. and from the sounds of things there’s not a lot of money to be made anyway.
So the basic situation is that whatever you’re looking for (local race or the whole Ironman/WTC experience), supply is limited, so when demand increases, prices will just go up.
Other relevant concepts include things like economies of scale, regulatory burden, seasonal demand, network externalities. A whole bunch of behavioural economics concepts could be used to explain the increase in demand for these races.
I would say that if you wanted to get the prices for races down, you shouldn’t look to Ironman/WTC, but lobby your local governments to create laws that facilitate endurance sports events (cite health benefits for general population, $ benefit of people coming to the area etc.) and lobby your local triathlon federation to begin assisting event organisers to create new events (particularly with the legal/liability side of things).
This year the RD for Challenge AC held two training days with led and supported bike previews for both the half and the full. Afterward I bet most of us spent $$ eating at the local establishment that let us use their parking lot. It was so much fun talking with others training for that race, talking about what other events we’d done, finding out who we knew in common. I can’t imagine the RD made money, since there was no charge and we got a free beer if we stayed to eat. But a wonderful sence of community was fostered that day. I’d pay to do that again. But that was for a 70 or so mi preview of a 112 couse. I wouldn’t pay to bike less than 50 miles if it weren’t a race. Similarly, I don’t tend to pay to run a 5k or 10k because I can too easily run that without the crowds, the t shirt or the finishers medal that has no meaning to me.
So I guess my suggestion would be to run training bricks if the distance is overall shorter. There are few places for public open water swimming where I am, so I think pairing swimming with biking would work in NJ/South East PA. Maybe that’s not the case in Ontario…
I agree that most races are priced better when they first open and I tend to procrastinate on signing up.
I am also aware that it takes a lot of effort to put the races on and I can’t thank all RD for doing so!
I just think it’s starting to price a lot of people out of the sport. It is already geared towards the upper income bracket. A
Dollars are relative, but yes I find racing to be expensive. With three in college, it really puts the pinch on me and I really enjoy local sprint races that I can do for $50-$60. There aren’t many “small” races that do Oly’s and above unfortunately. Numbers for these races are on the decline for sure and I’m not sure about Ironman branded races since I’ve never done one, nor have I been to one. To me it would seem given these low cost races are falling apart with dwindling numbers says it isn’t solely a $$ issue. I really enjoy triathlons but I’ve considered jumping into other sports because like swimming, biking and running by themselves because the race costs are much less… as some of my roadie friends point out I’d probably make money at cycling events. 