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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [JRA] [ In reply to ]
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JRA wrote:
lennyk wrote:

What wahoo needs is a public review highlighting this serious issue by someone who is not afraid to say so.

All reviews searched online now are very positive and no doubt will dupe people into buying, like myself.

These are not....

Wahoo Kickr Review

Wahoo Kickr Test

Both report the same issues...

I have never seen those reviews. Thank you for the sanity check.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [proftri] [ In reply to ]
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proftri wrote:
ccassidy wrote:
marting - IMHO I don't believe that the new Wahoo firmware update control your kickr by powermeter works at all. I think that if you feel like it does and its "usable", it is basically a coincidence (like all of the other fixes that have been suggested). If it "works", why has Wahoo not said anything? Why has TR not said that it does?


I can't answer the last two questions, but I'd dispute the claim that it's a "coincidence." My Kickr used to read 15-20 watts higher than my Quarq. With v.26 of the firmware and the beta Wahooligan app, they consistently read the same (and I know it's the power from the Quarq because I am measuring that independently but at the same time that TR is reading off of my Kickr). I've used the beta for probably two months now and numerous trainer rides. Hard to see how this is a "coincidence."

Same here. with the .26 firmware and the new Fitness app (I also had the Wahooligan beta, which also worked), my power is tracking very well in Trainerroad. I have noticed some variability with the same workout on different days, but the variable seems to be whether there are others in my garage with me doing the workout (hence, some wireless interference). There are two Kickrs, 4 PMs, various HRMs and speed/cadence sensors, and at least 4 Garmin head units. When I'm there alone, it's pretty much always spot on.

The wireless interference problem isn't limited to the Kickr; some of my training mates report PM dropouts as well.

Ian
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Krispy2014] [ In reply to ]
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neither me, a google search for "wahoo kickr review" certainly does not bring up those at least on the first page of results.

Krispy2014 wrote:
JRA wrote:
lennyk wrote:

What wahoo needs is a public review highlighting this serious issue by someone who is not afraid to say so.

All reviews searched online now are very positive and no doubt will dupe people into buying, like myself.


These are not....

Wahoo Kickr Review

Wahoo Kickr Test

Both report the same issues...


I have never seen those reviews. Thank you for the sanity check.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Nate Pearson wrote:
Our idea is that if you have a power meter and a kickr (or any electronic trainer paired) we'll automatically adjust the electronic trainer to match your power meter. We can't think of a reason why you wouldn't want that feature on...unless you're DC rainmaker doing Pm/Kickr tests.

Thoughts?
Completely agree
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [lennyk] [ In reply to ]
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Son of A - updated to iOS 8.0 and the beta app went dead for me.....damnit. Back to the offset in TR I guess.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [agreif] [ In reply to ]
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You don't need the beta app. The official app has the ant+ control settings now.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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I get the green arrows on the kickr device screen, but dot it's still red in the workout screens? You saying it's actually working? That said, with the non wahooligan app app, the power is within 5 of my Quarq, better that the 28 before, but not as good as the 1w difference I had with the beta app (firmware x.23). Haven't updated the firmware with the version of the Wahoo app. Gonna see what it is tomorrow workout loading any app.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [agreif] [ In reply to ]
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I've been using the official app since they released it with firmware .26. I didn't notice anything changing.... it works just like before. Compared to my P2M the difference is probably 1-3W on 20min intervals. It's not perfect though, as it starts the resistance is actually greater than it should be where my PM reads 10-15W higher than the Kickr for about 5-10minutes and then it stabilizes.
I also tried Perfpro and it worked flawlessly. At this point I'm just waiting for TrainerRoad to implement their fix.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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cool, I'll try it with the regular app again in the morning.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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So finally I am able to get this working with the right firmware and app combination.

Thanks for all the constructive replies in this thread.



I do have a question on a new setting in the Wahoo fitness app that I didn't have prior.

What does

"ERG Mode Speed Simulation"

do?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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So here's my setup that seemed to work today. Before doing this setup, I was on an ipad with iOS 7.X and using the wahooligan app.

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/1899669-Beacon

The setup I'm using
1) iOS 8.X - which killed the ability for the Wahooligan app - thanks Apple, I hate you.
2) Kickr Firmware 1.3.23 - I didn't update to the latest firmware because I honestly don't know if the newer firmware would negate the ability to use the power meter. With lack of information, I'm going to stick with what I know worked in the past.
3) Updated Wahoo app - not wahooligan app, wahoo app available in the app store.
4) Current trainer road on my windows laptop.

In doing this I did have the lightning bolt with the arrows in a circle around it in green on teh wahoo app. This also yielded a red got where we used to see green, but that didn't seem to matter as the lighting bolt with the circle of arrows was green.

Interval 1 and two tracked right on to the watt, what's interesting is TP shows the power matched, and TR displayed the same during the workout, but in the summary, it shows it being down a watt or two. So interval 1 and 2 were spot on. Interval three I went to the big ring and it was 2w low, negligible difference in my mind. Went back to little ring on #4 and it was again spot on. #5 was messed up I think because I went to big ring as the interval started and the power spiked high. It seemed like the kickr didn't increase the load enough to slow down the cadence, so that was was a toss out. Back to #6 and it all lined up again.

I think overall the new wahoo app works. I'd be interested in hearing what firmware others are using and knowing if it works or not to control via the PM like it was able to do for me.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [agreif] [ In reply to ]
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too much work. I will be using perfpro for now instead of TR.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [astig] [ In reply to ]
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astig wrote:
too much work. I will be using perfpro for now instead of TR.

+1
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
astig wrote:
too much work. I will be using perfpro for now instead of TR.


+1


I'm not computer illiterate, but the whole "wahoo PM hack" is just frustrating. The FW updating screen is hidden. Had to play around tapping the screen to get the FW list to show up. Once I got that, I had to get a buddy of mine to basically hold my hand at each step to get the kickr to use my p2m as the power meter. I had to navigate multiple screens to do that. It really takes the air out of working out.

KUDOS TO PERFRO!!! TR better get their solution out quickly. I know it's not really their problem, but even if the kickr was really only off by 5-10w or so, if you had a primary powermeter for racing wouldn't you want to use the same for training?
Last edited by: astig: Mar 30, 15 9:03
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
cmeeks wrote:
I don't really care for discussing whether or not the Kickr is a great trainer and I certainly don't care for calling people out on their reviews as has been done. It's a solid piece of hardware - I'll give it that! It's built like a tank, I don't have to burn through tires, and it has good feel. With the right software implementation, I'll be 100% happy with it again. Let's get it fixed and move on!

What about those that don't have a 2nd non hub based power meter? No software "implementation" will fix that. It just happens to have a workaround IF you have and are using a 2nd power meter.

The point is that I would rather Wahoo be putting their development efforts into fixing the trainer rather than coming up with a patch that only works for those of us with a power meter. In the meantime, it's still a great trainer for those of us with non-hub based power meters!
Last edited by: cmeeks: Mar 31, 15 8:53
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [cmeeks] [ In reply to ]
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Okay, here's our first shot at controlling the Kickr (or any other electronic trainer) with a power meter.

It will automatically do this, no need to do anything on your side. Just pair a power meter and an electronic trainer.

Make sure you have "Use power from electronic trainer" option off under the profile tab in the app. If this works, we'll probably remove that feature.

Ray, we don't have an option to turn this off yet. If my algorithm works, we'll add an option to turn this off.

There's some potential tuning to do with this, so please test it out and email me at nate@trainerroad.com with the results. Right now I have it set fairly aggressive to get the PM and Kickr to lock in quickly. Within 30 seconds you should be good to go. If either PM drifts during the workout it should still stay synced.

If this works, we'll port this code to iOS and get a beta out for you guys to use before we submit to the app store.

Again, this is beta, so if you'd like to wait until this is ready for prime time please don't download the links below.

Thanks for the input on this everyone! :)

Mac
https://www.dropbox.com/...Road.2.6.34.dmg?dl=0

PC
https://www.dropbox.com/...oad.2.6.500.exe?dl=0

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
Last edited by: Nate Pearson: Apr 1, 15 11:33
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Bravo - Quick work too.


Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Nate, thanks and give a pat on the back for the TR team for me. I have it downloaded, but will not get to try it out until tomorrow evening. Looking forward to giving it a test.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Cool... going to give it a shot tonight.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Just finished a workout when I saw this. Downloaded software, paired up kickr and PM (an SRM) and started a 5 minute test. It appears to work. TR was tracking my PM pretty well. Kickr was showing 25 watts higher. So really need to do a complete workout tomorrow. There appears to be some lag between PM to TR to kickr but need a long ride to see how it will all work out.
Thanks Nate!!!! Some fine tuning and it will work great
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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ccassidy wrote:
Just finished a workout when I saw this. Downloaded software, paired up kickr and PM (an SRM) and started a 5 minute test. It appears to work. TR was tracking my PM pretty well. Kickr was showing 25 watts higher. So really need to do a complete workout tomorrow. There appears to be some lag between PM to TR to kickr but need a long ride to see how it will all work out.
Thanks Nate!!!! Some fine tuning and it will work great

It should be about 10 seconds before they start to sync up. We do a bunch of things to throw out bad data.

Oh yah, we also made it so that we adjust the resistance on a Kickr two seconds before the interval changes. That makes it so that you'll feel the change when the interval starts rather than two seconds after it starts.

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, thanks Nate!

I just finished a workout, too, but downloaded and gave it a quick try. My Kickr and SRM have always been well matched, but they did seem very close with this beta version. Longer ride tomorrow, but very cool and thank you for getting this out so quickly and well.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, that was really fast - well done. Just downloaded the new version, but also just finished a workout so I'm excited to give it a try tomorrow. Awesome work.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Nate Pearson wrote:
We also made it so that we adjust the resistance on a Kickr two seconds before the interval changes. That makes it so that you'll feel the change when the interval starts rather than two seconds after it starts.

This addition is awesome just on its own!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Just tested it for a couple minutes and it appears to be working good.
The anticipated ramp up is good too.

Will be using tomorrow morning and post results.
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