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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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I believe you're actually supposed to use the bigger ring in erg mode - it means a lot less stress on the tire since the tangential force at the roller will be much smaller. If the tire is doing 10km/h, the braking force from the roller needs to be 3x higher for a given power level than if the tire is doing 30km/h. This means more slippage (or more clamp-down force to prevent slip), more heat, and more wear. On both my kickr and CT I usually do my erg workouts in the fastest gear that doesn't generate too much noise. In several thousand km, I haven't popped a tire due to external problems on the CT (usually installation problems from rushing my trainer tire on).

More on-topic: My kickr is still reading crazy high, but it has been consistent from workout to workout at least.

STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016
Last edited by: AHare: Feb 6, 15 12:38
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
nightfend wrote:
niloc wrote:
I just wish I had not sold the Computainer !!!


Yeah, but the Computrainer has its own issues like a flat tire right in the middle of a really hard workout from the tire overheating.


x 1000... multiple issues with flats on the CT.

I did everything right too.... small ring... middle of the cassette. Tire pressure not too high. Tires exploded mid ride... about 4 times.


Did you have a trainer specific tire?

.


Yes... multiple types too. Conti and Kenda. Freaked me out!!! No matter how off the KICKR is.... I would never go back to the CT. My KICKR workouts are great. I will be very happy when the power issues are fixed... but CT... No way!!

I road my CT for years, never had a tire issue.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [AHare] [ In reply to ]
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AHare wrote:
I believe you're actually supposed to use the bigger ring in erg mode - it means a lot less stress on the tire since the tangential force at the roller will be much smaller. If the tire is doing 10km/h, the braking force from the roller needs to be 3x higher for a given power level than if the tire is doing 30km/h. This means more slippage (or more clamp-down force to prevent slip), more heat, and more wear. On both my kickr and CT I usually do my erg workouts in the fastest gear that doesn't generate too much noise. In several thousand km, I haven't popped a tire due to external problems on the CT (usually installation problems from rushing my trainer tire on).

More on-topic: My kickr is still reading crazy high, but it has been consistent from workout to workout at least.

Just as an aside... the faster you go (ie. bigger gear) the hotter the tire gets. There was a guy on here who owns a CT studio and had extensive history with CT use based on numerous units over years. I read that thread multiple times... and little ring... middle of the cassette for the CT to eliminate or reduce blowouts.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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60 minutes on the schedule for today, zone 2, basically recovery.

Started off with a calibration of the Quarq, put the Kickr right to 180w to get me going, and the Quarq was reading about 210w range. Stayed this way for about 5 minutes, then it suddenly got looser, but still not down to 180 consistently.

I upped my Kickr wattage to 200w, the Quarq understood an increase in effort, but numbers were still off.

I continued this slow increase in 3-5 minute intervals, each time I upped the Kickr, I'd lap my Garmin so I could see if 220 eventually became 220. I never got it to match up, I was maybe within 10 watts or so. Wasn't happy with that.

At 35 minutes, I started a 5 minute effort at 310 watts. Quarq said I was flirting with 280-290, my heart rate never got up either, so I bagged it and jumped off to fiddle with the belt tension. I did this twice until I got a 5 minute effort (completely) with a 310 setting on my Kickr and my Garmin reading close. The best I got it was 312w. I was trying very hard to not look at the Garmin and mentally adjust my efforts, afterall it's an ERG so i'm not supposed to have to think anymore. I wanted to get a good average. On the 5 minute effort, I did manage to get my heart rate up as well to almost normal level, I was 155-156, a smidge low but it's just a barometer.

Cooled down slowly from 240-230-220 watts, lapping each time I changed the ERG number, and was close enough.

I'm still unsure of how tight is too tight for the belt. I hear a slightly different whine from the unit, but I wouldn't say it sounds horrible by any means.

I'm also nervous about the weekend. I have a work day scheduled for tomorrow, and would truly hate to have it be ruined by bad numbers. I have a long Zone 2 planned for Sunday as well. I'm trying to mentally say it's fine if it's just one weekend for the experiment. Depending on how this weekend goes, I may put this thing in the corner and go back to my KK with Powertap for the upcoming week, and mess with the Kickr after that, during my down week. I hate wasting time with this thing, it's frustrating and reading above that it may be 1-2 MONTHS for some new firmware that may or may not help isn't helping. I'm going to be out of return period by then, which leaves me stuck dealing with Wahoo directly. If they offered up something that is in the works, like a "we are onto something, bear with us, we have a new algorithm, it's working so far" I'd feel a little better.

a LITTLE better....

10k
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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Just did another scheduled work session.

Started off like before, the wahoo was lower than my Quarq by about 30 watts. Warmed it up and did a 30 minute rep, wahoo was set to 312 and Quarq read 309 for that rep. Not bad. I chose 312 because 310 felt off.

Second one, nightmare. I don't know if I was drifting down, or if the Quarq was confused for the first time ever, but the Kickr was at 310, heart rate was 160, Quarq was reading 290 range but my RPE felt way off (too hard).

Cooled down, lowered tension on the belt but it was still off. I tried a quick calibration of the Quarq when I saw this started and no luck.

I'm not sure how to proceed. I'm ready to bag this experiment. The second rep, per the numbers, was actually accurate, but I can't believe the Quarq was that confused. I'm leaning towards possibly a me issue but have no symptoms to back it up.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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10kman wrote:
Just did another scheduled work session.

Started off like before, the wahoo was lower than my Quarq by about 30 watts. Warmed it up and did a 30 minute rep, wahoo was set to 312 and Quarq read 309 for that rep. Not bad. I chose 312 because 310 felt off.

Second one, nightmare. I don't know if I was drifting down, or if the Quarq was confused for the first time ever, but the Kickr was at 310, heart rate was 160, Quarq was reading 290 range but my RPE felt way off (too hard).

Cooled down, lowered tension on the belt but it was still off. I tried a quick calibration of the Quarq when I saw this started and no luck.

I'm not sure how to proceed. I'm ready to bag this experiment. The second rep, per the numbers, was actually accurate, but I can't believe the Quarq was that confused. I'm leaning towards possibly a me issue but have no symptoms to back it up.

So the KICKR was reading lower than the Quarq in the beginning? That's interesting. So you are theorizing that it needs time to "settle in".

Seems strange that the Quarq would all of sudden become a problem.

Can you post a pic of how you are adjusting the belt tension... I'm curious... and may want to play around with mine as well.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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There's a video link in this chain somewhere, that would be better than a pic. You need a 5mm and a 2.5 allen wrench.

When I'm at a PC again I'll redo the link to the video if someone doesn't beat me to it.

I could have the belt tension a smidge high, which would make the Kickr be lower than the Quarq. Have to mess around more if I feel up to it.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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http://support.wahoofitness.com/...kipping-and-popping-

Go there, step one has video link.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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10kman wrote:
http://support.wahoofitness.com/entries/23717476-Why-is-my-chain-skipping-and-popping-

Go there, step one has video link.

Thanks!!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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10kman wrote:
http://support.wahoofitness.com/entries/23717476-Why-is-my-chain-skipping-and-popping-

Go there, step one has video link.

What did you do?? Just re-tension until the Quarq and KICKR aligned properly?? Trial and error??
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Go back to page 5 or 6 and see Krispy's writeup on how to do it. But yeah, trial and error unfortunately.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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10kman wrote:
Go back to page 5 or 6 and see Krispy's writeup on how to do it. But yeah, trial and error unfortunately.

Got it... Just got off bike. Will play with it tomrrow. Thanks!!!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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Is it only in ERG mode that most are having these issues? I remember with my first unit, it seemed to be "within reason" in the normal resistance mode, where it just acts like a dumb trainer, but in ERG is where I saw the worst data issues.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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Can't you just send it back for a warranty replacement? I don't think you will ever get it to give consistent readings.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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I've asked about a return from place of purchase, waiting to hear back. Issue is where do I turn then? Powerbeam Pro looks very interesting. CompuTrainer not so much at the moment, couple of reasons that'll I'll leave out of this discussion so we stay on track.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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Supposedly it's a one off problem, so a replacement unit should take care of the issue.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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There is no way that this is a one off problem.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
Supposedly it's a one off problem, so a replacement unit should take care of the issue.

There are many people complaining about this here... and I suspect that there are many more who don't have a crank based power meter and can't confirm what we are saying.

I really don't think an exchange would solve the problem.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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If this is a one off, then I'm the luckiest person alive, since I'm on my second unit with the same issue. Who said its a one off with data that trumps what we've provided in this thread?

Just rode 2:15 and started off in resistance mode, 0, to simulate flat riding. Watts jived with heart rate which jived with cadence which jived with usual speed in that particular gear.

Took the wattage and went to erg mode, no other changes, heart rate started dropping.

Went back to resistance mode, felt normal again.

Stayed in resistance mode.

Avg power was 230. Last week on Powertap and KK I was 229. Heart rate was a smidge higher this week but not enough to matter.

Now I am clueless.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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Any chance you can start your own thread with your problem?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [cwool] [ In reply to ]
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I'm having the same problem as everyone else, I'm providing information.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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10kman wrote:
If this is a one off, then I'm the luckiest person alive, since I'm on my second unit with the same issue. Who said its a one off with data that trumps what we've provided in this thread?

Just rode 2:15 and started off in resistance mode, 0, to simulate flat riding. Watts jived with heart rate which jived with cadence which jived with usual speed in that particular gear.

Took the wattage and went to erg mode, no other changes, heart rate started dropping.

Went back to resistance mode, felt normal again.

Stayed in resistance mode.

Avg power was 230. Last week on Powertap and KK I was 229. Heart rate was a smidge higher this week but not enough to matter.

Now I am clueless.

How was power compared to the Quarq??

Are you saying resistance mode was fine... and ERG isn't?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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That's correct. At least for today......

Try another mode and compare just for kicks.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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10kman wrote:
Go back to page 5 or 6 and see Krispy's writeup on how to do it. But yeah, trial and error unfortunately.
Adjusting the belt tension only changed the spindown from 17s to ab. 23s for me, with no change in power readings (Quarq still ab. 10% lower than KICKR.) Offset stayed within 2%.

Opened a ticket w/Wahoo to get on the beta fw; no reply.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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.26
Kickr
Vectors
TR

Not having much luck with this recently. When it works it's acceptable but several times now it has taken a lot of stopping and restarting to get the power figures to align. Worst was last night where the the software just didn't want to play despite the green dot on the app. Ended up turning the feature off which took me back to native "Kickr power", with the Kickr reading about 50W above the Vectors. Ended up switching it to resistance mode and getting on with my workout (after having wasted about 20min) using the Kickr in the same way I did with my old Cyclops Mag trainer.

I appreciate this is unofficial beta ware. I'm not upset that it's not working perfectly as I acknowledge that I shouldn't even have my hands on it. However, I'm really beginning to lose patience with Wahoo and their approach to this. While I appreciate they are trying to fix a problem I really with none of this was necessary and the product they sold me (for a lot of money) worked as intended and advertised. My level of annoyance isn't helped by the two times I've had contact with the customer support department when responses have been very substandard from an individual who clearly hadn't taken the time to read the question I had asked.

If anyone out there has a Kickr that is accurate and tracks closely with a good quality PM could they please chime in? Wonder whether we're just a vocal minority and there are loads of happy folk out there with accurate Kickrs? Or did DC Rainmaker get the only accurate Kickr in existence for his review?
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