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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Originally Posted by SHERCO290
Can u still use the other Apps that control Kickr (TR, Perf Pro - Imobiles) ETC
Yes, they work as a charm. It's the kickr itself that picks up data from the ant+ power meter instead of it's own.


I installed the beta firmware and the new app on my iphone yesterday. I opened the Wahoo Fitness app, got the green dot, and things seemed to line up well between my Kickr and my Power2Max. I then tried to use TrainerRoad on my laptop, however, the Kickr no longer self-adjusted to match my Power2Max. I was really hoping the firmware update to the Kickr would allow it to synchronize with an external power meter without the need for an iDevice. Am I mistaken?
Last edited by: cmeeks: Jan 12, 15 12:05
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting...

I've been wondering how they were going to implement this given the need to take a wireless signal for control rather than their own directly connected meter. I was worried that using an external power meter would reduce the Kickr's responsiveness to changes in force/cadence.

Their language seems quite specific about using the external power meter to 'tune' the Kickr so they match. Clever.

In any event, am going to wait until all you beta testers have ironed out the bugs! Am in no hurry as its the middle of summer here down under so most riding is outdoors!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [iSam] [ In reply to ]
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Phase 1- I followed the instructions from the earlier posts. Easy to do. Only difference I saw was the latest version I used was V 1.3.23.
After downloading software, I followed the instructions for the Wahooligan app install and setup. Easy to do. Only difference I saw was no green dot (or red dot) on page 3 under power. However, everything thing else I saw
in the setup was for my SRM PM (recognized it, linked to Indoor Workout, showing linked SRM PM for workout, etc.).
Started workout and I did get power readings from my SRM PM.
Now I am going to test the wahoo app PM readings against my Garmin 500 to be sure that they are the same.
Then I am going to try TR in ERG mode.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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Compared Wahooligan power to my Garmin - The Garmin and the Wahooligan were both connected to my SRM PM. I expected to see the same power readings but I did not. Close but not the same which I don't understand bc HR and cadence ANT+ readings are the same thru both the app and garmin. So why would the wahooligan app show different power readings from the SRM PM from the garmin if they are both reading the same power signal? I also looked at garmin 3 sec avg but that did not really help.
I also tried the wahooligan in erg mode and that did not work at all.............
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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Can't get this to work at all. I did finally get the red dot to show but could never get it to go green.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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Mine went through all the steps, but also was stuck with a red dot.

I RE-INSTALLED the new firmware at that point (second time...) and the dot went green.

Just did one sufferfest via trainerroad controlled by my quarq, and instead of 5-18w of drift, I was only off about 1w per interval (comparing trainer road recording off the kickr bluetooth, and a garmin 810 recording off my quarq). Subjectively it FELT appropriately difficult.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [jandersuf] [ In reply to ]
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exactly which version did u download?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [jandersuf] [ In reply to ]
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Just did a 1hr workout on TrainerRoad using the iOS app on Bluetooth. My Garmin intervals were within 1W of what TR reported. I also see that the graph in TR is not as smooth as before. It's not all over the place like on the KK Road Machine just not 100% smooth as before. My offset used to be about 30W from Power2Max before this. I'm happy... let the ass kicking begin
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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which version did u download?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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1.3.23
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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same
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [jandersuf] [ In reply to ]
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and when you ran the Wahooligan app did you connect your PM as a sensor or just the Kickr BT? So when u ran the Wahooligan workout was the only sensor connected the Kickr BT?
I am just not getting a green dot and can't figure out why.
Thx
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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I don't have an ANT+ dongle for my phone, so I only had BT connection with the kickr<->Ap for initial testing (green dot showed up).

Make sure you are entering the current ANT ID of your PM (my quarq has it printed on the side).

One I had the green dot, I disconnected my phone, and ran trainerroad (BT connected to the KICKR), with an ANT+ dongle on my Mac connected to my HR strap, AND a garmin 810 which was ANT+ connected to my quarq as a backup/comparison recorder...
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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I just entered the ANT+ ID. Copied it from the Garmin (Sensor details). The light doesn't go green instantly, you need to pedal. It goes green only when it receives power data from the PM, so if you stop pedaling it goes red.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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ccassidy wrote:
and when you ran the Wahooligan app did you connect your PM as a sensor or just the Kickr BT? So when u ran the Wahooligan workout was the only sensor connected the Kickr BT?
I am just not getting a green dot and can't figure out why.
Thx

This is poorly documented by Wahoo, but I got mine to work on the second try. The keys are:

- firmware v1.1.3.23, not the newer v1.1.3.8 - the latter doesn't work
- you don't add the ANT+ power meter as a sensor, only the Kickr, then you toggle the switch to let it be controlled by the ANT+ power meter (you have to scroll down the page for this option). Then you have to enter the numerical ANT+ id in directly
- another interesting option is to let the speed/distance be controlled by the power setting rather than by whatever gear + cadence you ride - gives you better numbers for tracking volume

Anyway, voila! Now I don't have to throw that expensive Kickr on the dung heap. :-)

Ian
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sneeuwaap] [ In reply to ]
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Glad to hear that this is working for a number of folks. Not having to worry about load drift or power meter offsets reduces the frustration level that those things can bring to some of us that lean in the "type A" direction with numerical data;)

Have fun and stay safe,

Hugh





Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [jandersuf] [ In reply to ]
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jandersuf wrote:
I don't have an ANT+ dongle for my phone, so I only had BT connection with the kickr<->Ap for initial testing (green dot showed up).

Make sure you are entering the current ANT ID of your PM (my quarq has it printed on the side).

One I had the green dot, I disconnected my phone, and ran trainerroad (BT connected to the KICKR), with an ANT+ dongle on my Mac connected to my HR strap, AND a garmin 810 which was ANT+ connected to my quarq as a backup/comparison recorder...

Can you just clarify for me please. I am reading from this that you do not need the Ant+ ipad dongle to get this to work. Connect with ipad/bluetooth to updated firmware and then update settings and point to to the PM, which is ant. The kickr should then connect to this, leaving TR, which uses an ant dongle on the phone as is?

Thanks

On the internet, you can be anything you want. It is a pity so many people choose to be stupid.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [jandersuf] [ In reply to ]
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jandersuf wrote:
I don't have an ANT+ dongle for my phone, so I only had BT connection with the kickr<->Ap for initial testing (green dot showed up).

Make sure you are entering the current ANT ID of your PM (my quarq has it printed on the side).

One I had the green dot, I disconnected my phone, and ran trainerroad (BT connected to the KICKR), with an ANT+ dongle on my Mac connected to my HR strap, AND a garmin 810 which was ANT+ connected to my quarq as a backup/comparison recorder...


I think I have everything ready with the correct firmware update and Quarq sensor number entered into the application. I don't have a lightning/30 pin cord (yet) to utilize the ANT+ adapter so it is great to know that I may be able to use this in a TrainerRoad workout tonight. Since you have a Quarq did you select the ERG Mode Speed Simulation option? If so did you get speed and distance in the workout? Not that it is important to me for training, but I just wondered if that worked and if it is a good option to select. Did ERG mode feel as smooth as it does using the Quarq's power compared to the Kickr control?

The other thing I find interesting is that the Wahooligan app can be closed after the green dot appears since it seems like all the control is being done through the app.

Look forward to giving this a try this evening.
Thanks to all the contributors
Last edited by: Felt_Rider: Jan 13, 15 5:21
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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I've done all the steps, and it seems like my SRM is controlling the Kickr, but I have not seen the green dot, even when pedaling for several minutes in Wahooligan. The speed in Erg mode does seem to work -- in the gear I normally use, speed does vary with power.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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It's not just having accurate number but I also feel like the workout is just a little bit harder. There really is no slacking when the power meter controls ERG while the Kickr's power estimator was a little bit more forgiving... Maybe I'm just more tired but the workouts feel different now.


sciguy wrote:
Glad to hear that this is working for a number of folks. Not having to worry about load drift or power meter offsets reduces the frustration level that those things can bring to some of us that lean in the "type A" direction with numerical data;)

Have fun and stay safe,

Hugh




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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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I use an indoor-only beater bike without a powermeter on my Kickr. Do I correctly understand that in order for this fix to work, I need to install and constantly use a separate powermeter on my bike to drive the Kickr?

The fact that this fix exists is awesome, and I'm sincerely not trying to criticize, but isn't it further masking the underlying issue rather than fixing it?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [geetee] [ In reply to ]
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geetee wrote:
The fact that this fix exists is awesome, and I'm sincerely not trying to criticize, but isn't it further masking the underlying issue rather than fixing it?


BINGO!!! I don't understand why they didn't implement some sort of temperature compensation first. I will concede that it is a great fix for those of us with a power meter and perhaps it's just a temporary solution while they work on something more permanent.
Last edited by: cmeeks: Jan 13, 15 8:39
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [geetee] [ In reply to ]
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geetee wrote:
I use an indoor-only beater bike without a powermeter on my Kickr. Do I correctly understand that in order for this fix to work, I need to install and constantly use a separate powermeter on my bike to drive the Kickr?

The fact that this fix exists is awesome, and I'm sincerely not trying to criticize, but isn't it further masking the underlying issue rather than fixing it?

Good point but it's likely the folks most irritated by the Kickr's load regulating "idiosyncrasies" are those that already have a power meter on their bike and it's the difference between what that reads and the Kickr reads that drives them bonkers. Since the Kickr has temperature sensing capability I bet they will eventually get a handle on more effective real time load sensing.


YMMV,

Hugh





Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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I hope this spurs on development of a cheaper Kickr.

I already have a PM, I don't really need/want one on the Kickr too. I'd like a cheaper Kickr that omits the internal PM, and relies on my existing ANT+ PM.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [rijndael] [ In reply to ]
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rijndael wrote:
I hope this spurs on development of a cheaper Kickr.

I already have a PM, I don't really need/want one on the Kickr too. I'd like a cheaper Kickr that omits the internal PM, and relies on my existing ANT+ PM.

I've been thinking about this since the ability to control via the power meter was made available in beta. My intuition is that the bulk of the materials cost is in the basic bike holding portion of the trainer along with the load generator. The electronics that modulate the load generator probably amount to a buck or two at most. So I'm not expecting a substantial price reduction for a unit without control built in.

YMMV,

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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