Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy

Oct 25, 14 0:21

Post #1 of 115 (15748 views)

Earlier this past summer, a Cammora warehouse was raided by the Italian Carabinieri anti-mafia task force; they were expecting to find money, hashish, cocaine, and heroine, instead they found money and 3000 individual doses of pharmaceutical grade epo targeted for the amateur sport world. The epo was already packaged and ready to be delivered to athletes in the northern parts of Italy. Now, the "winner" and eighteen others have been disqualified and reported to their national federations after failing doping controls in the Gran Fondo di Roma (test sample was 200). http://www.sportpro.it/#2071 Also busted earlier this year was Italy's premier masters triathlete Giuseppe Baldelli for epo/testosterone/and a masking agent...explains 6th overall at Lanzarote? Drafting is the least of our concerns.

Sharting Happens...deal with it!

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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Caughtontherun] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 4:12

Post #2 of 115 (15579 views)

I'm always surprised when folks are surprised that this is happening in the age group ranks. It's very much alive and well. There is a testerone clinic barely 100 yards from the IM Texas transition area. I drive by there on my way to work most mornings. It's not uncommon to see one or more cars in the parking lot with M-Dot stickers.

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [logella] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 4:59

Post #3 of 115 (15491 views)

I guess we shouldn't be surprised, because cheaters will be cheaters.

But I find it a little silly... I mean. It's not like AG'ers race for large prize purses or anything... so what the point?

In some ways, I feel like the joke is on them. Heh.

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Caughtontherun] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 5:03

Post #4 of 115 (15476 views)

For those of us in the senior ranks, and who don't dope, you can add that to the reasons we won't get a KQ. I have my suspicions about a number of folks but it is what it is. Fortunately, the Legacy route has offered an escape valve.

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 5:19

Post #5 of 115 (15433 views)

HuffNPuff wrote:

For those of us in the senior ranks, and who don't dope, you can add that to the reasons we won't get a KQ. I have my suspicions about a number of folks but it is what it is. Fortunately, the Legacy route has offered an escape valve.

Boy do I agree. But luckily for me, it seems that maybe that most that are doing this are IM LC folks whose only life is to race at Kona and strut their stuff. I see some who I question in the Olympic distance stuff,
but most of these folks may not seem to care about TeamUSA.

Still would love to see all the Kona qualifiers and USAT AA's be drug tested.

Does not matter why they are doing, ego?, but it is happening and probably growing in size. But, the federations do not care, just basically like all professional sports. Why rock the boat when
they are taking the money to the bank.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [gantaliano] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 5:32

Post #6 of 115 (15401 views)

Quote:

But I find it a little silly... I mean. It's not like AG'ers race for large prize purses or anything... so what the point?

One word .... ego.

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 7:05

Post #7 of 115 (15214 views)

h2ofun wrote:

Still would love to see all the Kona qualifiers and USAT AA's be drug tested.

How about a verbal pledge that you have raced cleanly when accepting your slot. I thought about this after watching a roll down. Giving your word is free but priceless! God help the liars.

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Caughtontherun] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 7:09

Post #8 of 115 (15201 views)

Caughtontherun wrote:

Earlier this past summer, a Cammora warehouse was raided by the Italian Carabinieri anti-mafia task force; they were expecting to find money, hashish, cocaine, and heroine, instead they found money and 3000 individual doses of pharmaceutical grade epo targeted for the amateur sport world. The epo was already packaged and ready to be delivered to athletes in the northern parts of Italy.

That explains the wait!

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Caughtontherun] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 7:14

Post #9 of 115 (15194 views)

For a guy who is right on the borderline for his KQ in M35-39, this really pisses me off.

Week of this year Kona I had a bad cold and I spent a bunch of time trying to figure out the rules about prednisone and pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine and whatever else the doc was trying to give me just to make 100% sure that there was no chance that I would violate a rule (especially at the World Championships).

Meanwhile a bunch of guys are hitting the T and blowing past me.

Whining finished.

Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [TJ56] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 7:27

Post #10 of 115 (15162 views)

TJ56 wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Still would love to see all the Kona qualifiers and USAT AA's be drug tested.

How about a verbal pledge that you have raced cleanly when accepting your slot. I thought about this after watching a roll down. Giving your word is free but priceless! God help the liars.

For those who would use PEDs would their word really mean anything?

It would be nice if a low cost reliable drug test could be invented.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 7:30

Post #11 of 115 (15156 views)

Jim Martin wrote:

For a guy who is right on the borderline for his KQ in M35-39, this really pisses me off.

Week of this year Kona I had a bad cold and I spent a bunch of time trying to figure out the rules about prednisone and pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine and whatever else the doc was trying to give me just to make 100% sure that there was no chance that I would violate a rule (especially at the World Championships).

Meanwhile a bunch of guys are hitting the T and blowing past me.

Whining finished.

Jim, I got a cold that week, too! (Something about traveling to Kona with kids, perhaps??) After all of the work, time, emotion, and money invested in racing well there, it was very tempting to try and knock it out with a Nyquil-induced 12-hour night of sleep. (Nyquil, like most OTC cold medicines, contains banned substances.) I didn't do it, of course, or else I wouldn't be talking about it.

I think that it's ego that drives the elite amateurs and it's also the simple drive to go as fast as possible (which, okay, may be the same thing as ego). The alarming thing about this story to me is the organization. I know that several elite amateurs blur lines or cheat outright, but the fact that there would actually be a black market infrastructure is disturbing.

George D.
Canton, GA

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 7:30

Post #12 of 115 (15155 views)

pattersonpaul wrote:

TJ56 wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Still would love to see all the Kona qualifiers and USAT AA's be drug tested.

How about a verbal pledge that you have raced cleanly when accepting your slot. I thought about this after watching a roll down. Giving your word is free but priceless! God help the liars.

For those who would use PEDs would their word really mean anything?

It would be nice if a low cost reliable drug test could be invented.

Based on every pro doping case ever in every sport it would mean nothing.

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 7:56

Post #13 of 115 (15086 views)

pattersonpaul wrote:

TJ56 wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Still would love to see all the Kona qualifiers and USAT AA's be drug tested.

How about a verbal pledge that you have raced cleanly when accepting your slot. I thought about this after watching a roll down. Giving your word is free but priceless! God help the liars.

For those who would use PEDs would their word really mean anything?

It would be nice if a low cost reliable drug test could be invented.

Ask Kevin Moats

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [logella] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 8:13

Post #14 of 115 (15048 views)

logella wrote:

Quote:

But I find it a little silly... I mean. It's not like AG'ers race for large prize purses or anything... so what the point?

One word .... ego.

If you aren't careful, then the pursuit of becoming an elite endurance-sport hobbyist can be the healthiest way to lose friends, and dull your personality. Participating in a doping program as an amateur is just sad.

Last edited by: soulfresca: Oct 25, 14 11:14

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [gwdiv] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 8:21

Post #15 of 115 (15027 views)

The hardest part for me was the damn rules, first figuring out what was or wasn't banned, then figuring out what the definition of "in competition" is, then explaining all that BS to a doc that wants out I healthy but doesn't really have a clue about the half life of prednisone in your particular metabolism.

Meanwhile, EPO, T are flying past me in the Queen K.

Some solace in a clean concours I guess!

Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [gwdiv] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 8:29

Post #16 of 115 (14994 views)

gwdiv wrote:

Jim Martin wrote:

For a guy who is right on the borderline for his KQ in M35-39, this really pisses me off.

Week of this year Kona I had a bad cold and I spent a bunch of time trying to figure out the rules about prednisone and pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine and whatever else the doc was trying to give me just to make 100% sure that there was no chance that I would violate a rule (especially at the World Championships).

Meanwhile a bunch of guys are hitting the T and blowing past me.

Whining finished.

Jim, I got a cold that week, too! (Something about traveling to Kona with kids, perhaps??) After all of the work, time, emotion, and money invested in racing well there, it was very tempting to try and knock it out with a Nyquil-induced 12-hour night of sleep. (Nyquil, like most OTC cold medicines, contains banned substances.) I didn't do it, of course, or else I wouldn't be talking about it.

I think that it's ego that drives the elite amateurs and it's also the simple drive to go as fast as possible (which, okay, may be the same thing as ego). The alarming thing about this story to me is the organization. I know that several elite amateurs blur lines or cheat outright, but the fact that there would actually be a black market infrastructure is disturbing.

It's the airplane!!! you put 400 people next to each other with the cabin air recirculating and there is much higher chance for people to get sick. I got sick twice this year and both times it happen 3-5 days after being on a plane.

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Caughtontherun] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 8:39

Post #17 of 115 (14957 views)

Pretty sure there was a Grand Fondo in Italy where Italian anti doping rolled up at the start and several riders in the top 100 got lost then DNF'd.

Unfortunately PEDs + sports go hand in hand like peanut butter and jellly

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [desert dude] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 8:46

Post #18 of 115 (14933 views)

desert dude wrote:

Pretty sure there was a Grand Fondo in Italy where Italian anti doping rolled up at the start and several riders in the top 100 got lost then DNF'd.

Unfortunately PEDs + sports go hand in hand like peanut butter and jellly

Or the first year they tested AGers at worlds in Germany all of a sudden some of our TeamUSA racers who had signed up just happened to not be able to make it.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 8:50

Post #19 of 115 (14918 views)

KingMidas wrote:

gwdiv wrote:

Jim Martin wrote:

For a guy who is right on the borderline for his KQ in M35-39, this really pisses me off.

Week of this year Kona I had a bad cold and I spent a bunch of time trying to figure out the rules about prednisone and pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine and whatever else the doc was trying to give me just to make 100% sure that there was no chance that I would violate a rule (especially at the World Championships).

Meanwhile a bunch of guys are hitting the T and blowing past me.

Whining finished.

Jim, I got a cold that week, too! (Something about traveling to Kona with kids, perhaps??) After all of the work, time, emotion, and money invested in racing well there, it was very tempting to try and knock it out with a Nyquil-induced 12-hour night of sleep. (Nyquil, like most OTC cold medicines, contains banned substances.) I didn't do it, of course, or else I wouldn't be talking about it.

I think that it's ego that drives the elite amateurs and it's also the simple drive to go as fast as possible (which, okay, may be the same thing as ego). The alarming thing about this story to me is the organization. I know that several elite amateurs blur lines or cheat outright, but the fact that there would actually be a black market infrastructure is disturbing.

It's the airplane!!! you put 400 people next to each other with the cabin air recirculating and there is much higher chance for people to get sick. I got sick twice this year and both times it happen 3-5 days after being on a plane.

I agree. Changing time zones on that airplane contributes, too, since it throws off your rest and makes you more susceptible. I also wonder whether my walking around so much--I had babies to entertain--had something to do with it, too. Perhaps it exposed me to more of the 400 people's germs??

All the more reason to get to Kona early if you are competing there. I had time to develop a cold and mostly get over it before the race started. On Tuesday, though, I had some concerns.

George D.
Canton, GA

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 8:57

Post #20 of 115 (14903 views)

Jim Martin wrote:

The hardest part for me was the damn rules, first figuring out what was or wasn't banned, then figuring out what the definition of "in competition" is, then explaining all that BS to a doc that wants out I healthy but doesn't really have a clue about the half life of prednisone in your particular metabolism.

Meanwhile, EPO, T are flying past me in the Queen K.

Some solace in a clean concours I guess!

Next time call the hotline for USADA. My experience was that they can provide all the info you need regarding doses in and out of competition use.

It was funny because I was asking about an asthma medication and was told you would have to use about 17 doses in a 24 hour period to exceed the in-competition level. I can't image using more than maybe 4-6 in 24 hours. It was also the same drug Pittachi was busted for. It made his excuse seem even more bogus.

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [gantaliano] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 9:22

Post #21 of 115 (14845 views)

Yep. Their wallet is lightened for what? To brag they finished an Ironman in 12 hours? On the other hand, for amateurs does it really matter? It's their karma that is cracked and left burning by the side of the road. But as long as I can look myself in the mirror and say "Yep, I finished last, but I did it without drugs" then I'm happy. I would be happier to finished first....

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 9:27

Post #22 of 115 (14826 views)

pattersonpaul wrote:

TJ56 wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Still would love to see all the Kona qualifiers and USAT AA's be drug tested.

How about a verbal pledge that you have raced cleanly when accepting your slot. I thought about this after watching a roll down. Giving your word is free but priceless! God help the liars.

For those who would use PEDs would their word really mean anything?

It would be nice if a low cost reliable drug test could be invented.

What I think would be the ultimate is some kind of easy to administer 'finger prick' type test for doping. You go up to get your slot, get your finger pricked and put on some kind of litmus paper that determines if you have taken banned substance or not, right there at the roll down in front of all your fellow competitors. =)

Long Chile was a silly place.

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [logella] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 9:51

Post #23 of 115 (14759 views)

logella wrote:

I'm always surprised when folks are surprised that this is happening in the age group ranks. It's very much alive and well. There is a testerone clinic barely 100 yards from the IM Texas transition area. I drive by there on my way to work most mornings. It's not uncommon to see one or more cars in the parking lot with M-Dot stickers.

Take pics and post 'em. We'll start a 'twitch hunt :)

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 10:32

Post #24 of 115 (14653 views)

grumpier.mike wrote:

Jim Martin wrote:

The hardest part for me was the damn rules, first figuring out what was or wasn't banned, then figuring out what the definition of "in competition" is, then explaining all that BS to a doc that wants out I healthy but doesn't really have a clue about the half life of prednisone in your particular metabolism.

Meanwhile, EPO, T are flying past me in the Queen K.

Some solace in a clean concours I guess!

Next time call the hotline for USADA. My experience was that they can provide all the info you need regarding doses in and out of competition use.

It was funny because I was asking about an asthma medication and was told you would have to use about 17 doses in a 24 hour period to exceed the in-competition level. I can't image using more than maybe 4-6 in 24 hours. It was also the same drug Pittachi was busted for. It made his excuse seem even more bogus.

Lol, I remember Petacchi getting busted. He had the equivalent of about 15 puffs off a salbutimol inhaler in his system. The lab also determined that the amount in his system wasn't consistent with taking it via inhalation.....not sure if salbutimol comes in a pill? Anyway, yeah, it would be hard to go over the limit with a puffer when using as directed for asthma...

Re: Amateur doping alive and well here in Italy [logella] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 14 10:38

Post #25 of 115 (14634 views)

>One word .... ego.

Ego is purely what drives me to train 20 hours/week and spend 15% of my income on pro-level equipment despite being a middling-talented, middle-aged AGer.

It's pretty silly, which I try not to think about too much.

Don't I don't cheat.

It's more than ego.

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