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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on a great race yesterday Jordan !

Curious about this too, how did you like running in the Octane during a race ? As I told you before, like wearing it for the bike, hate wearing it for the run as it compresses my chest --> there is also a rule in France which actually doesn't help when I race locally : not allowed to unzip the top lower than the heart rate strap... but even completely open the Octane is a pain to run in for me.
I'm getting a Fusion Speedsuit in the next few days to see how good that one is in term of comfort, but it's heart breaking to already know I have a faster suit at my disposal that I can't use :-( . Maybe the next Octane as raced by Dirk Bockel will be great, until then I'm trying to find the best compromise ;-) . Still I'm curious to hear if the Octane influences your run or not ? Did you make any change on it (appart from the upper arms) to make it work better ? Thanks !
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [pyf] [ In reply to ]
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pyf wrote:
there is also a rule in France which actually doesn't help when I race locally : not allowed to unzip the top lower than the heart rate strap...

That rule is in place in all races run under ITU regulations - which is basically everything outside the US and WTC. Not allowed to unzip in my country either. That's one of the reasons I prefer a back-zip suit, since that one you can open completely.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [arca_tern] [ In reply to ]
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arca_tern wrote:
Oohh! Didn't know they'd done such a test. Link?

It might be in one of the old "ask Josh" podcasts. Or maybe Josh will answer here. But this isn't something I know because I read it somewhere; it's from being a Zipp athlete for seven years and having had a lot of conversations about these sorts of things with the engineers there.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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mungub50 wrote:
Rgreat race in the heat in Texas today. I have to say, I noticed you were in the Pearl Izumi octane. How did it do in the heat and how did it feel on the run?

If you go back through Austin, you should hit up salt lick BBQ for the post race feast.

The suit was fine in the heat. I did not perceive it to be materially warmer (or cooler) than any other suit I've used. It was quite windy, which certainly would help an all black suit with more fabric be cooler - more evaporative cooling - than in less windy and/or more humid conditions. I also seem to have finally sorted out my issues racing in the heat that I had last year, and I feel like I'm back to being someone who enjoys and races well in the heat. In general, I think the key with the sleeved suits is to keep the sleeves wet. You have more coverage of your upper back, and if you can keep that cool, I think it really reduces the impact of the heat and - especially - the sun. I don't know what, if any, effect the "coldblack" had. I think that's somewhat of a gimmick, having raced in all black (or mostly black) suits without it for a long time, I just don't perceive a real difference. That said, the suit was fine.

I have the old version with the high collar, which was a bit constrictive on the bike when fully zipped up. But I unzipped it about 1-2cm, and it was fine, and that doesn't affect aero.

Swimming, I had a worse swim than I syracuse, but I don't think it was the suit. I did some open water swimming in the suit and did not perceive that it limited my ROM in any way. It would be hard to do a speed test in just the suit since that also factors in drag, and I didn't have access to a lake cool enough where I could comfortably swim in suit+wetsuit to test for speed (i.e. high-effort swimming).

On the run, I would have liked for the zipper to open maybe another 3-5cm, but it wasn't an issue. I ran a lot in the suit and finally felt comfortable enough in it that I didn't perceive it affected my performance. I.e., I *want* the suit to open up a bit more but I don't think I *need* it to. I don't perceive that the suit in any way hampered my running.

On balance, I thought it was a very good suit. Especially in the windy conditions, I think it was a really, really good decision to wear it. The suit could be improved - some of my proposed improvements have already been made or are being made by Pearl, but IF IT FITS YOU, it's very good.

Sadly routing home through Vegas...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [pyf] [ In reply to ]
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pyf wrote:
Congrats on a great race yesterday Jordan !

Curious about this too, how did you like running in the Octane during a race ? As I told you before, like wearing it for the bike, hate wearing it for the run as it compresses my chest --> there is also a rule in France which actually doesn't help when I race locally : not allowed to unzip the top lower than the heart rate strap... but even completely open the Octane is a pain to run in for me.
I'm getting a Fusion Speedsuit in the next few days to see how good that one is in term of comfort, but it's heart breaking to already know I have a faster suit at my disposal that I can't use :-( . Maybe the next Octane as raced by Dirk Bockel will be great, until then I'm trying to find the best compromise ;-) . Still I'm curious to hear if the Octane influences your run or not ? Did you make any change on it (appart from the upper arms) to make it work better ? Thanks !

it's totally stock except for the sleeves being tailored.

Other than that see my comments re: run above this.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Have you found the Advantage2 to be better for most people than the Selector?
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [pyf] [ In reply to ]
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Seems it would make more sense to get a fast Kiwami Spider instead of the one that tested slowest for him....

pyf wrote:
Congrats on a great race yesterday Jordan !

Curious about this too, how did you like running in the Octane during a race ? As I told you before, like wearing it for the bike, hate wearing it for the run as it compresses my chest --> there is also a rule in France which actually doesn't help when I race locally : not allowed to unzip the top lower than the heart rate strap... but even completely open the Octane is a pain to run in for me.
I'm getting a Fusion Speedsuit in the next few days to see how good that one is in term of comfort, but it's heart breaking to already know I have a faster suit at my disposal that I can't use :-( . Maybe the next Octane as raced by Dirk Bockel will be great, until then I'm trying to find the best compromise ;-) . Still I'm curious to hear if the Octane influences your run or not ? Did you make any change on it (appart from the upper arms) to make it work better ? Thanks !
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Are you running the s-works road shoe over the tri-vent?

Is there an aero reason for that? I see that you said the s-works road shoe is already pretty aero and doesn't really need a shoe cover.

I guess my question is the s-works road shoe significantly more aero than the tri-vent, and if so what was the difference during your tests?

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Nate Pearson wrote:
Are you running the s-works road shoe over the tri-vent?

Is there an aero reason for that? I see that you said the s-works road shoe is already pretty aero and doesn't really need a shoe cover.

I guess my question is the s-works road shoe significantly more aero than the tri-vent, and if so what was the difference during your tests?

I run the S-Works shoe because it's more comfortable for me. Never tested the trivent, though I doubt it would be any faster. Mark would have to answer if it is slower. My guess is no, just based off eyeball and construction similarities.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
For Kona:
808 front & rear. Carbon clincher.

For everything else:
808 front and Super9 rear. Carbon clincher.

Tires:
on 808: GP4000S 23mm
on Super9: GP4000S 25mm

Tubes:
Vittoria Latex 19-23mm
23mm @ 105psi
25mm @ 95psi

I just got this exact same setup that I'm going to use this weekend at Vineman. I thought that 120 psi was always going to have better rolling resistance.

What's the science behind lower tire pressure offering better rolling resistance? I know in MTBing people are starting to recommend lower tire pressure too.

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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do you really gain 1mph by putting 1 arm behind your back on a downhill going 40-50mph?
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Simply put, higher psi is going to bounce more along the road. If you were riding on a totally smooth track, you could run higher pressures. On real roads though, it's better to be in that 90-110 range. The slightly wider rims that are more common now also favor lower pressures.

There's good info about tire pressure in this thread:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=5091336;page=1;mh=-1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC

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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [snackchair] [ In reply to ]
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Perfect. I have a new PSI to run at Vineman :). Thanks!

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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Like this?



Does that mean 2mph with both hands behind back?



I tried this commuting home Monday. Not too hard to go no hands w/ arms tucked, but I couldn't get that low.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Nate Pearson wrote:
I know in MTBing people are starting to recommend lower tire pressure too.

starting?

low 20s (tubeless) has been going on for quite some time. i'll run mid-teens with a tubular MTB setup. the traction is unreal.
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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you bet.....and another with a full skin suit!!
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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micaza75 wrote:
you bet.....and another with a full skin suit!!

Not the Under Armour one though...
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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You may be right... but I'm still looking for a sleeved option, I really like racing with sleeves, the Spider suit looks interesting but I have plenty of sleeveless trisuits ;-) .
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [MITaerobike] [ In reply to ]
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MITaerobike wrote:
bullshark wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
Looks virtually identical to mclaren. Is a new helmet. Name is just s-works TT.


any idea when it might be made available to the general public?


Jordan shouldn'tve told you it was a new helmet at all....hahaha it's OK. This is a transparent, open place. The new helmet is a major modification of the current S-Works + McLaren TT helmet.
-increased certification - CPSC, CEN
-removable face shield(s) - very much led by protour athletes asking for this - has taken us a while to get this to not be a ton slower than without. Generally what's optically clear and an effective aerodynamic leading edge are different shapes.
-increased ear "room" as the previous helmet was very tight in this area.
-completely new molding. Previous one was mega hard to make...

Aerodynamically, this new helmet is pretty much identical to the current CE S-Works + McLaren TT. Of course there are small nuances that on some athletes might show a small difference, but we've tested this on about 10 athletes now (in various sizes) and have had consistent data.

One other thing is that the TT to Evade difference on Jordan is a bit smaller than most athletes. More see a slightly bigger advantage to the TT helmet with a different back/shoulder/head relationship.

Mark


This is going on my Christmast list
Wont make it in time to be under the tree but I can wait.....
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I thought of a few ideas I thought you guys could test in the near future:

1. q-factor affect on aerodynamics (you guys could just use speedplay pedals/cleats and try a variety of widths). The current thinking is narrower=better but I've never seen this tested.
2. aero texturing on calf sleeves. See if you can find something similar to the PI Octane suit material and make a calf sleeve out of it.
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [MITaerobike] [ In reply to ]
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MITaerobike wrote:
USPro Tri wrote:
Jordan, curious if you happen to know what helmet size(s) were tested on the Evade?

My shop and I noticed when comparing the M vs L a substantial difference in the exterior size of the Evade (much bigger difference than expected). Some athletes like Jesse chose the Evade, but wondered how/if fit really impacts that? The Large looks huge/bulbous on me, wereas on some guys it fits better and looks really sleek. Evade has 3x sizes, whereas most aero tailed helmets often have just 1 or 2 sizes

I don't have a choice but to go with the Large if I do Evade, but other tailed aero helmets "look" faster on me fit-wise. Perhaps this is a Mark question, I'd guess he has tested people over various size helmets


We tested all sizes and certifications (CPSC, CEN, Asia - S, M, L) on probably about 50ish athletes over the past year. Generally we do a comparison versus either a TT helmet or two and the Prevail. For good measure often throwing a few competitor helmets in there.

The Large is "bigger" but is proportionately shaped for aerodynamics. It still works as it's designed and offers a similar advantage versus a M vs. M or S vs. S, etc.

I won't use Watts because this means so many different things to different riders. But time saved works out well regardless of rider speed (to within a handful of seconds) - The rough median benefit of an Evade versus a Prevail is 45 seconds saved over 40 km. This is generally true per helmet size and head/shoulder/back position.

Mark

Mark can you clarify this for me? Am I taking a aero penalty for wearing a size med-large helmet over a small-med one? I have a s/sm s-works TT helmet on order and since i can squeezzzzze into a size small evade, I am sure a size m/ml will feel better though. I can sacrifice some comfort for time, just can't seem to find anyone giving any kinda of specific numbers on this. Thanks for any info!

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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