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Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right
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I am trying to drop a few pounds--maybe 10. I thought I would try out one of the juice cleanse diets along side my wife; we would do it together. I modified the diet, thinking there was no way juice only would give me enough calories to make it through the day. My plan was juice during the day and then a light (salad) dinner in the evening. Monday was the first day and by the end of the day I thought I was going to die! I had a screaming headache, felt light-headed and dizzy. I ate a clif bar and immediately started to feel better.

Tuesday I changed things up. Juice first thing, lunch time half a salad, 3/4pm the remaining half salad, 6pm clif bar and then final juice at 8:30. I did ok with this, although cycling (sufferfest video w/trainerroad) i felt weak and struggled to hit some of the interval targets that I can usually make OK. I also swam in the morning and ran at lunch time.

Today, I repeated the food schedule but only had a bike workout planned--sufferfest revolver. I started the workout at 7pm. One half hour into it I gave out; could not hit the interval targets and felt really out of breath. I have done this particular workout a few times and while it is difficult, I have always been able to hit the target, plus a few watts, and complete the entire course.

So my question to the forum:
What is the best way to determine exactly how many calories to intake and what should the timing of those calories be? Should I plan to consume the expected calories expended for a particular workout, and how long before that workout should I take them in? And, if I do that, can I then just consume the minimum to get through the day? Is my approach right--decreasing calories to a minimum and then adding back in to just be able to continue my training plan?

I do not create a ton of power on the bike and I know one way to increase watts per kilo is to reduce the kilo part. I also know that I will pick a few seconds per mile running just by reducing the weight I carry along. I am just shy of 5'9" and vacillate between 160lbs and 165lbs.

Any thoughts are appreciated.


Twitter: @blues2play
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [ajessup] [ In reply to ]
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Do the following for 17-days:

http://www.chewfo.com/...-to-avoid-food-list/

Understand the concept then moderate your carb intake once you drop to your goal weight.

The first 3-4 days are harsh then your body begins to use fat versus carbs for fuel and you start to feel better.

This really works. I am a 4:35 HIM finisher and dropped 10-lbs in 12 days 2 years ago and now know a bit more about how my diet (ie. what I eat) affects my digestive system.


Good luck!!!
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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There is so much wrong in even that sample of the book. Broscience working overtime there.

Good to see that you can write almost any old crap and people will swear by it.
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [Tapeworm] [ In reply to ]
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I'm an avid juicer and I see so much wrong with this "cleanse" fad that seems to be attracting more people to juicing. To me juicing is the same thing as taking a multivitamin everyday. I have a 7 day cycle of juice "colours" which I consume for breakfast along with solid foods. The big mistake a lot of people make is repeating the same juice day after day.

The best benefit of juicing is the ability to get in fruits and vegetable from a wide variety of colours which is an overall balance for your nutrition profile. My advice is to quit the cleanse idea and commit to becoming a consistent juicer and add in variety. I have a Yellow, Pink, Orange, Green, Purple, Red and Brown(combo of Red+Green) juice rotation. I also add other items into the juice via a blender for added boost such as Raw Oats, Maca Powder, Bananas, Frozen Berries, Coconut Oil, Spirolina, and Protein Powder. If you experiment with these you'll find a satisfying juice that won't leave you weak or lacking in energy. Also like I said pair up your juice with solids or have it in addition to your meals.


Vegetables for recovery
Fruit for Energy

------
"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [cshowe80] [ In reply to ]
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Any info on each of the recipes? The different colors intrigue me...

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [Tapeworm] [ In reply to ]
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have you tried it? i am gonna guess no and that you didn't read it either. I tried it, my wife did and so did about 20 other people that I shared it with and it worked for all of them.

so in the future, if you have nothing good to say with no grounds to back it up, shut your cake hole and move along!!!
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [ajessup] [ In reply to ]
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ajessup wrote:
What is the best way to determine exactly how many calories to intake and what should the timing of those calories be?

First calculate your TDEE or total daily energy expenditure. Here's a calculator that will do it for you: http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/ This is the estimated amount of calories you burn daily w/ exercise. Once you've done that, to lose weight you would want to eat at a deficit (best to not go any lower than 20%) As an example, at a 500 calorie per day deficit, you would be on track to lose 1 lb a week. This may be suitable if you have a significant amount of fat to lose, but beware that as you lose weight/fat, it will be harder to maintain this. Once you get very lean, you'll need to limit the deficit amount to suit your hunger levels.

Timing of calories, aside from taking in nutrition during long workouts and trying to eat within a reasonable amount of time afterwards, is up to you.

ajessup wrote:
Should I plan to consume the expected calories expended for a particular workout, and how long before that workout should I take them in?

No, take in calories during long workouts and eat something afterwards, but you don't have to worry about hitting exact numbers as long as you hit your calorie goal at the end of the day.

ajessup wrote:
And, if I do that, can I then just consume the minimum to get through the day?


You only need to focus on your daily calorie goal. So for example, If your TDEE with exercise added in is 3000 calories, and you want to lose a pound per week, you would eat 2500 calories.

ajessup wrote:
Is my approach right--decreasing calories to a minimum and then adding back in to just be able to continue my training plan?

See above.
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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cloy26 wrote:
Any info on each of the recipes? The different colors intrigue me...


Sure I can share the recipes but it's basically grab everything of a similar colour and juice it.

Pink - 2 Golden Delicious Apples
- 1/4 Watermelon
- 1 Stalk Celery
- 2-3" piece of Cucumber
- 1/8 Cabbage
- 1/2 Lemon
- 3-4 Strawberries (Blended no Juiced)
(Any additives depending on your needs e.g. I add whole raw oats on days I've got a long session)

Red - 2 Golden Delicious Apples
- 3-4 Roma Tomato
- 1 Stalk Celery
- 2-3" piece of Cucumber
- 2-3" piece of Broccoli Stalk
- 1/2 Lemon
- 1/2 Red Bell Pepper
- 3-4 Strawberries (Blended no Juiced)
(Any additives depending on your needs e.g. I add whole raw oats on days I've got a long session)

Yellow- 1/4 Pineapple
- 1/8 Cabbage
- 1 Stalk Celery
- 2-3" piece of Cucumber
- 2-3" piece of Broccoli Stalk
- 1-2" piece Ginger Root
- 1/2 Lemon
- 1/2 Yellow Bell Pepper
- 3-4 Strawberries (Blended no Juiced)
- 1tsp Tumeric (Blended no Juiced)
- 1 Banana (Blended no Juiced)
(Any additives depending on your needs e.g. I add whole raw oats on days I've got a long session)

Orange- 2-3 Medium Carrots
- 1/8 Cabbage
- 1/2 Stalk Celery
- 2-3" piece of Cucumber
- 1-2" piece Ginger Root
- 2 Oranges (Rind Removed)
- 2 Golden Delicious Apples
- 1 Banana (Blended no Juiced)
(Any additives depending on your needs e.g. I add whole raw oats on days I've got a long session)

Purple- 2 Golden Delicious Apples
- 1 1/2 Beet Root
- 5-6 Strawberries (Blended no Juiced)
- 1/2 cup Blueberries (Blended no Juiced)
- 1/2 Stalk Celery
- 2-3" piece of Cucumber
- 1 Banana (Blended no Juiced)
(Any additives depending on your needs e.g. I add whole raw oats on days I've got a long session)

Green - 1/4 Pineapple
- Big Handful of Kale
- Big Handful of Spinach
- 1/8 Cabbage
- 2 Limes (rind removed)
- 1/2 Stalk Celery
- 2-3" piece of Cucumber
- 2-3" piece of Broccoli Stalk
- 1 Banana (or Avacado) (Blended no Juiced)
(Any additives depending on your needs e.g. I add whole raw oats on days I've got a long session)

I'm sure I'm missing something as I did these off the top of my head. Some are delicious and others you just have to get down (it helps to dilute with water). Drink the juice as soon after juicing as possible to get all the benefits. If you juice in advance these recipes will need to be altered.

Hope it helps

------
"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
Last edited by: cshowe80: May 8, 14 11:59
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [ajessup] [ In reply to ]
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You sound like you're low on carb intake - the primary fuel (as glycogen in the body) you rely on during endurance exercise, so not surprising you're low on energy. If you want to drop weight you'll have to take in less calories than you burn. Monitor everything and make adjustments as needed. Don't skimp on carbs (fuel) or protein (muscle repair). I'm not wild about the decreasing-calories-to-a-minimum-and-then-adding-back approach - a drastic plan that could lead to illness. I'd rather monitor my weight and eat slightly less so as to lose weight in a slow, steady progression.

I like to start workouts with a near empty stomach - so about three hours after my last meal. Since stored glycogen lasts ~90 minutes for a fit person, any endurance workout lasting much longer should be accompanied by caloric intake. Don't skip the post-workout drink - there's no advantage to making your body wait for repair/replenishment.

I don't understand the juice thing - is there some advantage to liquifying food?
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [micaza75] [ In reply to ]
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micaza75 wrote:
have you tried it? i am gonna guess no and that you didn't read it either. I tried it, my wife did and so did about 20 other people that I shared it with and it worked for all of them.

so in the future, if you have nothing good to say with no grounds to back it up, shut your cake hole and move along!!!

Oh, I am sure it "works". Make up any arbitrary BS set of "rules" and I will guarantee the person will lose weight. The more ridiculous the rules, the better. If the person fails to lose weight it's usually because the "rules" weren't followed. But when it does work... the more people will justify the ridiculous nature of having followed such massively stupid rules in the first place.

Amazing that people could lose weight but simply tracking calories... No that could never happen.
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [ajessup] [ In reply to ]
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if by juicing you mean just drinking the juice of the fruit/veg, or basically all sugar no fiber, thats useless, it doesnt cleanse you, and all you drink all your calories so you dont get full, what cleanses you are toxin removing whole foods like collard greens, kale, onions etc, not the juice of them, if you want to lose weight, run more and dont eat sugar and grains
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [TriBiker] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you Tribiker and Jayy. Seems to make more sense to me. I am going to up my caloric intake to about 2000 with the ratio's from IIFYM.com applied and see how that goes. I think my original plan was overly aggressive. Now I see why some recommend weight loss during the off season, so the goal of weight loss and gaining strength/endurance never conflict.

Can someone explain the difference between juicing and blending?


Twitter: @blues2play
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [goregrind] [ In reply to ]
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goregrind wrote:
if by juicing you mean just drinking the juice of the fruit/veg, or basically all sugar no fiber, thats useless, it doesnt cleanse you, and all you drink all your calories so you dont get full,


I can't think of a way to get less satiety per kcal or to be less cost-efficient, I can not comprehend why there is always at least one person recommending juicing in these threads. When a primary goal is weight loss, most of your calories coming from simple carbohydrate is not a good thing, but fiber is.
Last edited by: stop2think: May 8, 14 16:10
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [ajessup] [ In reply to ]
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In my opinion you should try the juice cleanse/ juice detox process at least 3 day in a week. 3 day juice cleanse is the best way to do weight loss in a really effective manner because it contains nutrition, minerals, enzymes and other healthy constraints.
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [goregrind] [ In reply to ]
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goregrind wrote:
if by juicing you mean just drinking the juice of the fruit/veg, or basically all sugar no fiber, thats useless, it doesnt cleanse you, and all you drink all your calories so you dont get full, what cleanses you are toxin removing whole foods like collard greens, kale, onions etc, not the juice of them, if you want to lose weight, run more and dont eat sugar and grains

And what exactly are those toxins and how would whole foods remove them? That's done by the liver and the kidneys. Is the food supposed to assist those organ functions? Because this whole detox shpiel BS has been scientifically debunked over and over again.

Greetings from the German Wine Route,
Roland
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Re: Diet/Fueling/Working out and getting it right [RolandG] [ In reply to ]
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RolandG wrote:
goregrind wrote:
if by juicing you mean just drinking the juice of the fruit/veg, or basically all sugar no fiber, thats useless, it doesnt cleanse you, and all you drink all your calories so you dont get full, what cleanses you are toxin removing whole foods like collard greens, kale, onions etc, not the juice of them, if you want to lose weight, run more and dont eat sugar and grains


And what exactly are those toxins and how would whole foods remove them? That's done by the liver and the kidneys. Is the food supposed to assist those organ functions? Because this whole detox shpiel BS has been scientifically debunked over and over again.

from whfoods.com

The detox support provided by collard greens includes antioxidant nutrients to boost Phase 1 detoxification activities and sulfur-containing nutrients to boost Phase 2 activities. Collard greens also contain phytonutrients called glucosinolates that can help activate detoxification enzymes and regulate their activity. Four key glucosinolates that have been clearly identified in collard greens in significant amounts are glucobrassicin, glucoraphanin, gluconasturtiian, and glucotropaeolin.
If we fail to give our body's detox system adequate nutritional support, yet continue to expose ourselves to unwanted toxins through our lifestyle and our dietary choices, we can place our bodies at increased risk of toxin-related damage that can eventually increase our cells' risk of becoming cancerous. That's one of the reasons it's so important to bring collard greens and other cruciferous vegetables into our diet on a regular basis.
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