Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think this provisional slot would be kind of cool. Maybe even just say the fastest age grouper that didn't get a slot through their age group after the roll down. it would only be 2 slots but not sure how that would effect the overall break out of that particular races slots.

In regards to the original poster's training and goals, anything is possible if you have a strong athletic base and depending how quickly you 'pick things up'. There was a guy who used to do the local tri store's group rides who went from complete newbie who'd just bought a bike at the beginning of the season to destroying guys and eventually racing a continental cup or two by the end of the season. The guy had a massive distance swim background and was just a total natural talent. I don't think he realized that running 16 flat off a hard bike was as impressive as those around him. Granted, IM is a different animal but stranger things have happened.

All that said, does it seem likely. Not so much but it's cool to see someone putting there goals out there and trying to get what help he can given apparent limited resources and time.

I took about a 6 year break from Ironman (barely missed a KQ) before going for it again last summer in Louisville. I pushed pretty hard but eventually didn't make it to the start line when I broke my foot a month out. I took this whole year off tri and just mostly ran (not a ton but it's my background/first love) and will be headed to Texas to try and qualify again. While my time/resources aren't quite so limited, I'm putting those energies into the bike (via power & bike coaching) to try and make the most out of my run. Just thinking about trying to do it on 12 hrs seems like a tough ask.
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
motoguy128 wrote:
Yes and no. The guys I was talking to at my last 70.3 had qualified in 18-24 in 2012. 25-29 did seem comparable because having less slots, meant that while a top 5 was slightly slower, getting a top 3 for a KQ was in fact harder.

However, 1-3 in 35-39 was a LOT faster tha nthe top finisher in 25-29, but things dropped off quickly after that. It seems like the top 1-3 in 30-34 and 35-39 are often fast enough and may have even achieved the qualifying standard to go professional but choose not to. Probably for family or personal reasons. Those fast enough to go pro under 30, probably jump at the chance since they figure they have more future protential. Just a theory. Jsut go to USAT and look at hte season ending rankings and the number of "*" after those at the top of 30-40, vs. <30. Some guys like Iott and Zucco enjoy kicking age group butt. Seems like one or both of them are on the starting lists of at least one IM 70.3 every month.

Sometimes I wish they had some kind of provisional slots that used the USAT scoring system to determine a qualifying time to allocate a couple extra slots to the next 2 or 3 fastest athletes that might have missed out because their age group was deeper at the top than usual. IT is kind of crap when a 35-39 guy going a 10:09 gets in but maybe a 25-29 or 30-34 at 10:04 doesn't. Either that or maybe a amature version of the pro point system as an alternate qualifier. I guess it just makes those on the bubble have to train that much harder and have that perfect race.

Dunno how you can say no since I was stating facts. What this boils down to is that unless you are a Bryancd/setania/irontri AG stud (you know, the pro-caliber guys who (IMO) smartly decide to stick with AG racing), a KQ is highly dependent on who shows up. In other words, luck (and maybe some good race selection, you know, like picking a race on the same day as 70.3WC).

So that leaves two options: (1) bank on luck, or (2) work your ass off to get to the AG stud level. I think one of these options is better than the other. But other people will have different views.

I don't see why we should change to KQ system to reward people merely because they're young (really that's what you would be doing by rewarding the fastest). I think you'll view some sort of "provisional" KQ as a bad idea in a few decades if you are still in the game. I'll keep my eyes out for a "yeah you might have been right" thread in 2033 :)

tweets.
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sentania] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sentania wrote:
Quote:
I was 4min off qualifying in 25-29 at IMWI and I would have qualified in every other AG except 30-35


You also forgot about M30-34.

Yeah.... that's the AG I was looking for. That's what I get for trying to post past midnight.

tweets.
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [siegfried08] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My "yes no" want specific to IMWI. Consider demographics at that race. College town, plus 25-29 less likely to be doing 70.3 worlds since financially that's 3 WTC races in a year.

Or bad luck too.

Maybe too it was when I became 30 the same times that had me winning my age group at some local races, found me outside the top 3. Then again at another race this year the only guys that beat me I think were under 30.

So he'll, I guess it just depends who shows up.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A 1:15 swim implies a lot of things that need to be improved on in the water. Gaining fitness/technique to get under 1:00 will benefit both your bike and your run in a race dramatically IMO. You will gain more than just 15 minutes in the swim. However, if you only have 12 hours/week to train, that means less training time for bike an run after investing the necessary time on the swim. Difficult to accomplish your goal.

good luck!

albert.
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [albertboyce] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
albertboyce wrote:
A 1:15 swim implies a lot of things that need to be improved on in the water. Gaining fitness/technique to get under 1:00 will benefit both your bike and your run in a race dramatically IMO. You will gain more than just 15 minutes in the swim. However, if you only have 12 hours/week to train, that means less training time for bike an run after investing the necessary time on the swim. Difficult to accomplish your goal.

good luck!

albert.

An intense and targeted swim block 9-10 months out might give a bump to swim form while also givng your legs some recovery tiem before you start laying on the heavy volume.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Miami 70.3 Race Report (aka – what I’ve done over the past 4 months of training):

So I had my midterm progress report this past weekend, and well… I’d give myself a B-. I’m not out of the running, but have a long, long way to go and need to be more structured about my training.

Short summary: S(35:56)+B(2:26)+R(1:23)+T1(2:21)+T2(1:10) = 4:28, good for 13th in AG and 82nd OA
  • Progress on the swim (same time as Oly a month ago, but this time without a wetsuit), lots more to do
  • Not enough progress on the bike (23mph on flat/hot/windy course on 192 watts AP, 196 NP), leading to...
  • Bonking on the run - left calf on the verge of cramping the entire run (should have been 3-5 minutes faster on the run... course was short but had quick bathroom stop), cardio felt like a million bucks
  • Need another 15 minutes between the Swim + Bike to be competitive (probably 5 on swim, 10 on bike)

Medium summary:
  • I started swimming in the beginning of September, and have ramped up distance to ~8K per week over 3-4 sessions. Dropped scy interval set paces down from 1:50's to ~1:30 up to 300m, but clearly have a long way to go on the endurance front. It seems like I need to get up to a ~1:05 IM swim, and so must continue this progression through the winter.
  • My bike training has suffered since the swimming started. I went from 100-150 miles/week in the summer down to 80-130 miles/week since September. 80% of these miles were indoors on the trainer - a lot of tempo and interval work.
  • To make up for my decline in training, I decided to open up my wallet for the bike. Bought a Stages powermeter, Flo 60f/60r, LG Course helmet, Conti GP4000s, and Michelin latex tubes. Total bill: $1,850 (more than my bike). But the power meter didn't come until race week so I have no baseline to test against.
  • Now for the power data, 5-mile interval averages started with 183 and gradually rose through the race, finishing at 210. This was the first time I rode more than 50 miles in two years (this fall I’ve had three long rides of 50 miles each) and so I was getting pretty uncomfortable in aero by the latter part of the ride. My grundel still hurts. Given the 80-85% of FTP rule of thumb this would put my FTP around the 250 range, or right at 4w/kg
  • I've been averaging 30-40mpw running and think that's a minimum baseline for staying in decent running shape. I throw in an interval workout and a 8-10 mile marathon-pace run every week for strength purposes

So what's next?
  • Still going to shoot for 9:30 and all the glory because... why not.
  • Texas and Miami share similar traits (flat, hot), so if I'm able to lift my FTP up to 280 by May, @70% of FTP for the IM I can average a little under 200W and hit a 5:00 bike split. Did I do that math right? Included in this will be much better trainer training now that I have a power meter. Thinking about a Trainer Road subscription for the winter - good idea? I can suffer as much as I need to.
  • I'm out of spacers on my P2 but still think I can get lower. Swapping the Cane Creek top piece for a dust cap will be another half-centimeter, but that seems like the end of the road on this. I read about people slamming their handlebars but not really sure what the PG-version of that means.
  • Need to find more time to train. Would like to keep running mileage around 40, biking around 150, and swimming up to 10K per week. That's 5hrs run, 7hrs bike, 3.5hrs swim, which is more time than I have. Ahhh. Sadly not sure there's anything around this. Still thinking.

That's all for right now - comments/feedback/advice truly welcome as always.
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If are as time challenged as you say, and said you would be going into this, I would put the time back into the bike and away from the swim. It's not ideal but it's what you have to work with. You may need to simy plan on swimming a 1:10 but making sure you can ride close to 5 and run as well as you seem to be able to.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Why can't you make 15 hours work? Do you have kids?

An hour before work, an hour after work, plus a 4 hour ride and 30 min brick on Saturday and 2 hour run on Sunday is 16.5 hours. That's pretty much what I do year round. In the summer I ride more after work if daylight permits.

___________________
Twitter | Kancman | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I love the update - keep on working. No reason not to go for it.

The bonking may have been a nutrition issue. Make sure you have some long training sessions where you really nail your nutrition down before the IM. You don't want to go into the IM with your longest workout day being a 5 hour workout, and therefore no nutrition testing past that time frame.

Keep improving the bike! I wouldn't try to swim 4x per week. Just do 3x, but go a little longer each time. If you only make it 2x per week because you are fitting in more on the bike, that's fine some weeks - just go longer when you do get there.
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
One other thing - given that you rode 1:05 at lobsterman (very solid), but only 2:26 at Miami - which is probably one of the fastest 70.3 courses around - I would say that your endurance is a major limiting factor - not your cp.

___________________
Twitter | Kancman | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hey WX - I must have missed this thready the first time around (well, I have an excuse - I was too busy training!)

I did a quick scan of the responses but didn't look in detail, but I'll add my 2 cents worth

- go for it! you have the ability to qualify provided that you prepare well, race to your strengths, race smart, and have a bit of luck. The most important is to have a clear goal and the dedication to follow through with it (sounds like you do). I had really bad luck in my first 2 KQ attempts (broken ribs, GI bug) but I got it right on try 3 (Los Cabos). I'm really glad I didn't only have "one shot" like you!

- I did Los Cabos in 2013 (2nd AG, 26 overall), so I've good a reasonable perspective on what you would need to do to qualify.
- Your AG (I assume 25-29) had 2 slots. they went 10:08 and 10:10. However with only 2 slots there is always a risk that some superstar turns up and does a 9:20
- I did 9:42 on 18-23 hours a week. Swim the same (1:08), I'm probably faster than you on the bike (I was 2nd or 3rd fastest amateur bike split with a 5:07). My HIM bike on a rolling/hilly course is 2:19-2:24 You are a better runner than me. I ran 3:19 a IMLC and my open marathon time is 3:06 - I've not done an open since 2011 but I'm guessing I might have been able to run around a 2:55 open in march, certainly not a 2:40. On 10 hours a week, I think I would have been at least 20 mins slower on the bike.
- the bike is a tough course. Even after they made it easier for 2014 (they say it's 5% faster), there is not a single flat section. So being strong on the bike is key, not only for a good bike split but to set you up for a good run.
- your 10x100 swim is that yards? for comparison I do 10x100 yards on a 1:30 interval, coming in to the wall on about 1:22 for each one. I swam 1:08 in Cabo (I had a bad swim, but rather plan for worst case than best case).
- put in the swim effort to get you competitive, but as others have said, on 10 hours a week I would focus mainly on the bike. And run enough to "not screw that up". Or find another 5-6 hours a week. I manage to get in 18-28 hours in my IM builds (28 only a few weeks) and I have a busy job + 2 young kids. Just don't compromise your sleep too much. I compromise my sleep once a week, to get the hours in.
- keep this in mind: once you qualify, that's when the hard work starts! Set your wife's expectations now.
- training over winter sucks. be prepared for that, and keep focused on your goal to stay motivated!
- I see you plan to borrow aero wheels. Los Cabos was the windiest race I've done. I would recommend getting some windy training time with the wheels if possible.
- If you can buy a power meter I would recommend that. It will allow you to do some nice specific prep on the trainer. If not, training to HR is still fine.
- December: no biking? that will be a problem. Try to figure something out - I think I saw some suggestions on here. But don't do nothing.

Last of all - good luck and I hope you achieve your goals!

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm actually way more interested in the stuff you say we shouldn't worry about/ask about.

Sure, maybe you can qualify, maybe not. Who knows.

kelly dunleavy o'mara
@kellydomara
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
nice job dude. very cool that you got the powermeter to help take advantage of those limited hours. take a look at the Computrainer P.I.G. program. 20 weeks of ass kicking workouts. I don't have a CT but just started the program (w/ Vector power) and it's a pretty solid plan that'll help you build and track your progress.

an old friend once told me something to the effect that they could spend and extra 5 hours in the pool to gain 2 minutes in an ironman OR put those same 5 hours into the bike/run and gain 10-20 minutes during the ironman. name of the game...RETURN ON INVESTMENT!! now i'm not recommending you not swim at all but just try to get out of the water in a decent time expending as little energy as possible. what that is will be for you to figure out.

i'll go out on a limb and say your run issues is directly related to your lack of long bike miles but that'll come i'm sure
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have said repeatedly KQ is all about placement. Your result here was 30mon. behind first and 16min. from 3rd. In an AG with only two Kiba slots for your IM, well just do the math.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
WX wrote:
left calf on the verge of cramping the entire run

This seems to be a recurring problem for you. Have you had this problem running before or is this just an off the bike issue? Possibly bike position related? Any bike position pics?
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [snackchair] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
snackchair wrote:
One other thing - given that you rode 1:05 at lobsterman (very solid), but only 2:26 at Miami - which is probably one of the fastest 70.3 courses around - I would say that your endurance is a major limiting factor - not your cp.

Very true, and in hindsight I think I just didn't bike long enough. I'm hoping that long slogs this winter will make up for some of the difference.

Thanks to everyone who gave comments. Yes, nutrition may be an issue (need to go longer to find out), as is fit. Will put up a picture of myself on the fit stuff once I get my bike put back together.
@Kelly - not sure what you're referring to, but my marriage is going really well so far if that helps. Five months coming up!
@Dooley - thanks for the recommendation! Will definitely check it out. Willing to check out everything possible to build fitness over a Boston winter
@fierceSun - I've had cramping at the end of marathons before and figure it's just an over-exertion thing. Will definitely consider position problems - thanks!
@Bryan - I love your candor. I'm trying and will hopefully make something good happen next year.

Quick question: if IM Texas is in May, does it make sense for me to race a HIM 4-6 weeks in advance? Usually I race an open half marathon 3-4 weeks before my A marathon but not sure how the recovery cycles differ in the long-course tri world.
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
....in hindsight I think I just didn't bike long enough.

Correct.
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
WX wrote:
Quick question: if IM Texas is in May, does it make sense for me to race a HIM 4-6 weeks in advance?

NO.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
WX wrote:
@Bryan - I love your candor. I'm trying and will hopefully make something good happen next year.

Understand, as I have mentioned it before but it is hopelessly lost in the volume of this thread, I believe, based on your run talent, you could qualify for Kona given a 2 year plan and a training schedule that allows for more of the 13-15 hours per week on an annual basis. But the parameters of what you have placed on this relative to where you are is why I am the negative Nellie. I just can't make the math work.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Bryancd wrote:
WX wrote:

Quick question: if IM Texas is in May, does it make sense for me to race a HIM 4-6 weeks in advance?


NO.

Would you include any races in the build? If so, when?
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think an Olympic in that time frame WOD make sense but the problem with a Half that close to your race is twofold. One it will make you fatigued and two, will put a dent inwhat is an important part of you build training.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I know you have signed up and all that but is Cabos the right race? Why not Texas? A few reasons I see

1. Cabos - despite the change in bike course - will probably be pretty tough if it is windy again and given your bike is not your best of the 3 disciplines, I am afraid it will leave you too far behind the strong swimmers and bikers to catch up or you will be too worn out to leverage your run strength

2. I think a lot of people will suffer on the run in Texas due to heat and with a relatively flat and fast bike course you might loose less on the bike and be able to leverage your strong run to the max.

3. 2 more months to train

On the other side, the swim in Cabos is easier than Texas - but it is a smallest part of the race so I would choose race based on run and bike
Last edited by: andreasjs: Oct 30, 13 12:21
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [andreasjs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You need ot hit hte bike hard. Your run is solid... if you had a 2:18-2:20 bike split to back that up, losing 6-7 minuts in the water wouldn't matter so much. To KQ, you just can't give up that much time in 2 of the disciplines, especailly the bike.

You only shot now is to bike a LOT. I think for your first IM, you need a lot of "buffer" built in to KQ because expecuition likely won't be perfect.

Right now, unless you make improvements, you're about a good 10 minutes off the mark of your peers that are qualifying. So in a IM, that's rpobably 30 minutes you have to make up. Simply put, you'll be 10 minutes down on the swim, probably 20 down on the bike. You're only shot at that point is to run about a 3:10 to make up some ground and hope it rolls down a slot.

I'm not sure what I suggest with limited time. Probably bike more to limit the damage and make sure you have good legs to run on. In swimming focus really really hard on technique. Your on hte bubble... if you can get more time into by getting creative with your weekly schedules, do it. I managed ot squeeze out 16 hours last week and I'm still home with the family at dinner time, when we put my daughter to bed and for breakfast Sat. or Sun morning and all afternoon on the weekends.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
Quote Reply
Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
WX wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
WX wrote:

Quick question: if IM Texas is in May, does it make sense for me to race a HIM 4-6 weeks in advance?


NO.


Would you include any races in the build? If so, when?

I'd recommend against a HIM that close as well.

I'm doing an IM in 4 1/2 weeks and am racing a HIM this weekend. I should have a borderline KQ time (~9:45 +/- 15min), and am regretting scheduling the half this close. I'm in the middle of the last few weeks of my build for Cozumel and this weekend's race has been difficult to work in without disrupting training. Since the IM is my "A" race, I'm approaching the half as a training race; meaning limited taper and no expectations for results. In hindsight, I should have done more racing a couple of months ago and left the 8 weeks leading up to the IM for focused training.



-Andrew
Quote Reply

Prev Next