Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: the hierarchy of aero [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
On modern aero frames, the rear wheel is shielded so the drag of the rear wheel is much less tham the front wheel.

For the budget minded, getting the best performing front wheel and a disc cover rear makes the most sense.
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scofflaw wrote:
JoeO wrote:
One thing you might do -- particularly for those on a budget -- is separate front and rear wheel. As I understand it, a front aero wheel gives you a much bigger improvement than a rear.


Can you elaborate? & then why are front wheels generally lower profile than rear/disc wheels? And then why not a deeper front wheel? Not trying to argue, just to understand. Thx.

Handling. The deeper you go on the front, the more skittish the bike can get in winds. One significant gust and you're no longer riding super fast, you're picking yourself up out of a ditch.
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scofflaw wrote:
I would like to get thinner to the wind, and I would like the ST experts to rank the following factors from most aerodynamically impactful to least:

A rider position
B rider body shape
C bike frame
D wheels
E helmet
F shoes
G bottle between bars
H bottle on down tube
I bottle on seat tube
J bottle(s) behind saddle
K fork
L cables
M tires
N bars

If I am not mistaken, I believe that bottle on the seat tube is more aero than bottle on the down tube.
I think I read this somewhere w/c is why I put my bottle on the seat tube -- it saves me 5.2789 secs on a 70.3.
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [iamdreyfus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
iamdreyfus wrote:
scofflaw wrote:
I would like to get thinner to the wind, and I would like the ST experts to rank the following factors from most aerodynamically impactful to least:

A rider position
B rider body shape
C bike frame
D wheels
E helmet
F shoes
G bottle between bars
H bottle on down tube
I bottle on seat tube
J bottle(s) behind saddle
K fork
L cables
M tires
N bars


If I am not mistaken, I believe that bottle on the seat tube is more aero than bottle on the down tube.
I think I read this somewhere w/c is why I put my bottle on the seat tube -- it saves me 5.2789 secs on a 70.3.

Depends on the frame and type of bottle. Avoid round bottles if at all possible. A recent trip to A2 saw a round bottle on the seat tube of a Specialized Shiv cost more that 8 watts of drag (~80 grams). This convinced him to run the bladder which he felt like was a PIA to deal with.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [needmoreair] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hmmm, that's a pretty drastic exaggeration. I'm smaller than most, have ridden in terrible conditions and never been actually tossed from my bike or pushed off the road.
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scofflaw wrote:
JoeO wrote:
One thing you might do -- particularly for those on a budget -- is separate front and rear wheel. As I understand it, a front aero wheel gives you a much bigger improvement than a rear.


Can you elaborate? & then why are front wheels generally lower profile than rear/disc wheels? And then why not a deeper front wheel? Not trying to argue, just to understand. Thx.

There were complete disc front wheels for road use and still are somewhat on the track indoors.

The issue is handling. If you've ridden a rim deeper than 90mm in a decent wind, you're spending plenty of effort/attention controlling the bike. With the recent design changes away from straight "V" rims (i.e. Zipp Firecrest), you can reduce the effect of side wind issues and at a less deep rim. Zipp claims the latest 808 is faster than the 1080 was.
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [Runless] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Runless wrote:
Hmmm, that's a pretty drastic exaggeration. I'm smaller than most, have ridden in terrible conditions and never been actually tossed from my bike or pushed off the road.

So you've been running a disk on your front wheel? There's a reason why you hardly ever see that being done and it's not because of a "pretty drastic exaggeration".
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [needmoreair] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
the person you responded to wasn't really asking about discs, just generally why deeper on the rear. I agree its a matter of handling, but I think front wheel handling is pretty overblown. I did ride a set of H3s for a long time and they are considered to be pretty bad handlers as a set(disc rear seems to balance them). I even rode them in a raec with gusts up around 40mph. I never left my aerobars because of wind.
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [needmoreair] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Girl who races in texas and louisiana races with a front disk from time to time.

Can't believe it is all that much worse than an 808.

I'd try it =)

needmoreair wrote:
Runless wrote:
Hmmm, that's a pretty drastic exaggeration. I'm smaller than most, have ridden in terrible conditions and never been actually tossed from my bike or pushed off the road.

So you've been running a disk on your front wheel? There's a reason why you hardly ever see that being done and it's not because of a "pretty drastic exaggeration".



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [Runless] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Runless wrote:
the person you responded to wasn't really asking about discs, just generally why deeper on the rear. I agree its a matter of handling, but I think front wheel handling is pretty overblown. I did ride a set of H3s for a long time and they are considered to be pretty bad handlers as a set(disc rear seems to balance them). I even rode them in a raec with gusts up around 40mph. I never left my aerobars because of wind.

Perhaps I should have expressly mentioned "disc" in regards to the being blown of the road bit, but what I said still stands (and was repeated a few times).

It affects handling. I've been moved halfway across the road riding only 60mm wheels. I've also had gusts push me off the road on a few occasions where I was skirting the edge. It's not that uncommon.
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jackmott wrote:
Girl who races in texas and louisiana races with a front disk from time to time.

Can't believe it is all that much worse than an 808.

I'd try it =)

needmoreair wrote:
Runless wrote:
Hmmm, that's a pretty drastic exaggeration. I'm smaller than most, have ridden in terrible conditions and never been actually tossed from my bike or pushed off the road.


So you've been running a disk on your front wheel? There's a reason why you hardly ever see that being done and it's not because of a "pretty drastic exaggeration".

I'd also be keen to give it a go on a calm day.

But I wouldn't do it on a windy/gusty day.
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [scofflaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hate to say I told you so, but...http://triathlon.competitor.com/...-from-castelli_83188

Trust me, this was developed very quickly. Probably started no earlier than May, I bet. I wonder how hard it would be to put the top on in T1 while you're wet? The sleeves might be a more realistic option.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I will buy one of those.
Like it!
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
@Jim, do you have an opinion about whether the Giro Selector helmet is generally faster with the shield or with sunglasses?
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [415brian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
415brian wrote:
@Jim, do you have an opinion about whether the Giro Selector helmet is generally faster with the shield or with sunglasses?

It's one of the very few helmets that tests faster with a shield. Very consistent in that regard.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jim@EROsports wrote:
It's one of the very few helmets that tests faster with a shield.

Great info, thanks!
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jackmott wrote:
Girl who races in texas and louisiana races with a front disk from time to time.

Can't believe it is all that much worse than an 808.

I'd try it =)

needmoreair wrote:
Runless wrote:
Hmmm, that's a pretty drastic exaggeration. I'm smaller than most, have ridden in terrible conditions and never been actually tossed from my bike or pushed off the road.


So you've been running a disk on your front wheel? There's a reason why you hardly ever see that being done and it's not because of a "pretty drastic exaggeration".

Last year at the Olympics too in the women's road TT, forget who- I think a Dutch girl.

Sorry Aussie:

http://london2012.olympics.com.au/...1E1-B17B005056A37760

Maurice
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
  
what about the LG vorttice (and its new replacement)? i run it with no shield, as i understood them to be slower.

also, thanks for your posts, very interesting.
Last edited by: buzz: Aug 31, 13 18:40
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [buzz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No shield on the Vortice...same with the new P09 when it comes out.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply


---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fusion have been producing something like this for a little while see http://www.fusionsportsuk.co.uk/...ops/fusion-speed-top I have had one for the last year and found it to be very good. I wear it during the swim and then shed it in T2. Used it both at races where it has been on the cool side and it did help to keep me a bit warmer and also for Alpe d'Huez long course where it was very hot but regularly pouring water over it seemed to keep me cool and stopped me from burning. There is no way I would like to get it on in T1, I can't see how you would do this without towelling yourself dry completely. No idea how the Fusion one works out in terms of aerodynamics.

Steven
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [sdkenny] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sdkenny wrote:
Fusion have been producing something like this for a little while see http://www.fusionsportsuk.co.uk/...ops/fusion-speed-top I have had one for the last year and found it to be very good. I wear it during the swim and then shed it in T2. Used it both at races where it has been on the cool side and it did help to keep me a bit warmer and also for Alpe d'Huez long course where it was very hot but regularly pouring water over it seemed to keep me cool and stopped me from burning. There is no way I would like to get it on in T1, I can't see how you would do this without towelling yourself dry completely. No idea how the Fusion one works out in terms of aerodynamics.

Steven

Side-note : Does anyone have any experience with the ice-packs from Fusion ? I don't function very well in hot weather, so this could be considered a great aid in my case. I only need to have enough of these available at the personal service-stations to "replace" them during a race to keep in full functional mode ;).
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sweet, double-discs! Don't see that often, but if the conditions are calm that is the ultimate wheel choice. They use double-discs all the time in track because there is no wind.
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jim - Kask Bambino w or w/out shield? And if without, with or without sunglasses?
thx!
Last edited by: jimmy3993: Sep 2, 13 18:42
Quote Reply
Re: the hierarchy of aero [jimmy3993] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't have a solid answer for you on that one. The Bambino's effectiveness is so position-dependent that it makes generalizations difficult. If I remember correctly, the results are mixed shield vs no shield.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
Quote Reply

Prev Next