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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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My question... and I've never trainned for a IM... but now training for my second HIM that I hope to place well in, can you do well in a IM with only 10 hours per week? I'm at 9-12 hours and feel like that's barely enough to balance all 3 disciplines and I'm only training for a fast 13, not a marathon. I'm thinking 12-15 is a minimum to get in the long rides and runs.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
That August I was 9th in my AG at Timberman (25-29)


OK, that speaks the loudest as to your ability in less then 12 months to move from 9th in that AG to top 3 at a full Ironman, even one with fewer participants like Cabos. I think based on your training time constraints, time of year, and that result it is very unlikely you can qualify. Had you been one of the guys who show up at their first half or full and go top 3 in a competitive AG and field, that would speak volumes. But you have a lot of work to do. I think a two year plan would be much more doable. You just don't have the time to develop enough bike fitness.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 3, 13 13:13
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
I have many other dreams that work well with her: eating, traveling, drinking, etc.

I also dream of eating and drinking. Nothing productive to add that has not been said, but best of luck on the marriage and your pursuit of the goal.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [ In reply to ]
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I love ST. Where advice about training turns into a thread with marriage advice.

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I love ST. Where advice about training turns into a thread with marriage advice.

LOL! Yeah, I don't know how fair all those comments were/are. I think the OP simply was sharing that he had a personal conversation with his spouse about a big deal in his life, nothing wrong with that. I certainly discuss my triathlon plans a year in advance with my wife.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
My question... and I've never trainned for a IM... but now training for my second HIM that I hope to place well in, can you do well in a IM with only 10 hours per week? I'm at 9-12 hours and feel like that's barely enough to balance all 3 disciplines and I'm only training for a fast 13, not a marathon. I'm thinking 12-15 is a minimum to get in the long rides and runs.

You don't train at "IM volume" 52 weeks a year. So, averages are just that - averages.
Part of the year you can easily get away with 6-10 hrs/wk (or less, sometimes much less - he says, from experience);
then during the last 3 months before your IM, you'd likely be doing more like 14-18+ hours/wk.

You don't need L rides and L runs all year 'round. Probably better for your sanity, and your relationships, if you don't anyway.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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In order to assess your comment I need to know about your dating life first. How is it going?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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I have to agree: based on your Timberman result, I'm going to say unlikely as well. Unless you were terribly under-trained for that event, a 1:37 run split in a 70.3 does not translate to a 3:00 split for a full...and, I think it's much easier to reach your potential in a 70.3 than 140.6. I run a 1:24 open half, but can comfortably run 1:28 in a 70.3 after a strong bike. In a full, though, the best marathon I've put together is 3:34 compared to my 3:00 open marathon PR. (Going to fix that this year at IMFL, though.)

What about focusing on an early season 70.3? 10 hours / week would be much more appropriate for that distance. You'd probably get more satisfaction out of an age group podium in a 70.3 than missing your stretch goal of KQ. Besides, you've got many years in front of you for IM.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't relealize he ran so poorly at Timberman even though he felt his 2:33 bike split was worth mentioning. So a decent ride, nothing spectacular, followed by that slow a run, yeah, no way. Clearly his bike fitness isn't nearly good enough. If a 2:33 blows you to that many pieces, you have no idea what 112 miles feels like.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 3, 13 16:11
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. I'm optimistic because I had only just started riding a bike a few months earlier, but then again, I have to stay positive. If I can't pull together a 4:25-ish 70.3 at the end of this year then I'll definitely re-assess. No one said this would be likely - but all it takes is a couple hundred dollars and a dream!

High-level strategic question - I can do Texas as well in lieu of Cabo. Any thoughts?

Cabo: 3rd place last year in 10:15, but a harder course. Low heat acclimatization.
Texas: 3rd place in the 9:30-ish range in the past, no wetsuit swim (bad for me), fast bike course (comparatively worse for a smaller guy like me). But it gives me 45 more days of training, which is non-trivial.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Agreed. I'm optimistic because I had only just started riding a bike a few months earlier, but then again, I have to stay positive. If I can't pull together a 4:25-ish 70.3 at the end of this year then I'll definitely re-assess. No one said this would be likely - but all it takes is a couple hundred dollars and a dream!

High-level strategic question - I can do Texas as well in lieu of Cabo. Any thoughts?

Cabo: 3rd place last year in 10:15, but a harder course. Low heat acclimatization.
Texas: 3rd place in the 9:30-ish range in the past, no wetsuit swim (bad for me), fast bike course (comparatively worse for a smaller guy like me). But it gives me 45 more days of training, which is non-trivial.


Optimism is good, being realistic is better. The course doesn't matter, what matters is where you place in regards to Kona qualifying. The faster times in Texas are simply a matter of the course and conditions, NOT the level of competition. Don't try and make the course fit your ideals of splits. Look, I appreciate your enthusiasm but I am being perfectly honest with you that you have not even the slimmest of chances. Qualifying for Kona is hard..because it SHOULD BE. Look at my signature line. I have never done a WTC race where I have finished worst then 4th in the AG I was in. I have never done a WTC race where I didn't qualify for Kona or 70.3 W.C. So at my first IM I made the show and have ever since. At my first 70.3 I made it to 70.3 WC and have ever since. I have even won my AG and finished 4th at 70.3 W.C. I am not trying to impress you, I am simply trying to impress upon you that sometimes if you are fast right out of the box, it can happen. You opened the box and aren't close enough, yet. Your open marathon time is great but meaningless in regards to the topic. Now based on the impact on your personal life to try and do what you are physically incapable of doing at this time, I think you should SERIOUSLY reconsider and maybe work on qualifying for 70.3 Worlds next year as a stepping stone.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 3, 13 17:28
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, just look at his signature line!!!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
WX wrote:
Agreed. I'm optimistic because I had only just started riding a bike a few months earlier, but then again, I have to stay positive. If I can't pull together a 4:25-ish 70.3 at the end of this year then I'll definitely re-assess. No one said this would be likely - but all it takes is a couple hundred dollars and a dream!

High-level strategic question - I can do Texas as well in lieu of Cabo. Any thoughts?

Cabo: 3rd place last year in 10:15, but a harder course. Low heat acclimatization.
Texas: 3rd place in the 9:30-ish range in the past, no wetsuit swim (bad for me), fast bike course (comparatively worse for a smaller guy like me). But it gives me 45 more days of training, which is non-trivial.


Optimism is good, being realistic is better. The course doesn't matter, what matters is where you place in regards to Kona qualifying. The faster times in Texas are simply a matter of the course and conditions, NOT the level of competition. Don't try and make the course fit your ideals of splits. Look, I appreciate your enthusiasm but I am being perfectly honest with you that you have not even the slimmest of chances. Qualifying for Kona is hard..because it SHOULD BE. Look at my signature line. I have never done a WTC race where I have finished worst then 4th in the AG I was in. I have never done a WTC race where I didn't qualify for Kona or 70.3 W.C. So at my first IM I made the show and have ever since. At my first 70.3 I made it to 70.3 WC and have ever since. I have even won my AG and finished 4th at 70.3 W.C. I am not trying to impress you, I am simply trying to impress upon you that sometimes if you are fast right out of the box, it can happen. You opened the box and aren't close enough, yet. Your open marathon time is great but meaningless in regards to the topic. Now based on the impact on your personal life to try and do what you are physically incapable of doing at this time, I think you should SERIOUSLY reconsider and maybe work on qualifying for 70.3 Worlds next year as a stepping stone.

So if a guy isnt ...'Fast right out of the box'... he has 'not even the slimmest chance'?? For your argument to have any validity wouldn't you first have to know the level of training he did leading up to Timberman? I'm sure more than a few genetic freaks out there could easily go 4:40 'right out of the box' at Timberman on just a few hours of training a week. The op's 2:40 OM time would indicate that he has potential , and he probably has far more than 'not even the slimmest of chances' that you have granted him . And now... thanks to you he also has some motivational fodder to pin to the 'dressing room blackboard'  :)

.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [shady] [ In reply to ]
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It is an easy trap for runners coming in to Ironman to think they can run within 20 minutes of their open times for the marathon. You really don't appreciate the bike fitness (and swim) that it takes to allow that in a race. Not to mention in the hottest part of the day. Ironman is littered with fast open runner who walk the marathon.
Certainly it is possible that he can do it, but it is pretty rare to happen on the first try. Those who do are usually fast enough to be pros within another year.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [shady] [ In reply to ]
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In my experience, considering the time fame he has provided, his results so far, yes, he would need to be a genetic anomaly to qualify. And I could care less if he uses me for motivation. And the fact that you use a Lance quote in your signature line speaks volumes.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 3, 13 18:32
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
WX wrote:
Agreed. I'm optimistic because I had only just started riding a bike a few months earlier, but then again, I have to stay positive. If I can't pull together a 4:25-ish 70.3 at the end of this year then I'll definitely re-assess. No one said this would be likely - but all it takes is a couple hundred dollars and a dream!

High-level strategic question - I can do Texas as well in lieu of Cabo. Any thoughts?

Cabo: 3rd place last year in 10:15, but a harder course. Low heat acclimatization.
Texas: 3rd place in the 9:30-ish range in the past, no wetsuit swim (bad for me), fast bike course (comparatively worse for a smaller guy like me). But it gives me 45 more days of training, which is non-trivial.


Optimism is good, being realistic is better. The course doesn't matter, what matters is where you place in regards to Kona qualifying. The faster times in Texas are simply a matter of the course and conditions, NOT the level of competition. Don't try and make the course fit your ideals of splits. Look, I appreciate your enthusiasm but I am being perfectly honest with you that you have not even the slimmest of chances. Qualifying for Kona is hard..because it SHOULD BE. Look at my signature line. I have never done a WTC race where I have finished worst then 4th in the AG I was in. I have never done a WTC race where I didn't qualify for Kona or 70.3 W.C. So at my first IM I made the show and have ever since. At my first 70.3 I made it to 70.3 WC and have ever since. I have even won my AG and finished 4th at 70.3 W.C. I am not trying to impress you, I am simply trying to impress upon you that sometimes if you are fast right out of the box, it can happen. You opened the box and aren't close enough, yet. Your open marathon time is great but meaningless in regards to the topic. Now based on the impact on your personal life to try and do what you are physically incapable of doing at this time, I think you should SERIOUSLY reconsider and maybe work on qualifying for 70.3 Worlds next year as a stepping stone.

I'll chime in, as the yin to your yang.

What he did at Timberman, isn't like it's his ceiling or something. And lots of people need a coupla few LC races under their belts to figger it all out.
I know I did.
I did Timberman as my 2nd HIM, biked 2:31 on a road bike w/ clip-ons, then imploded on the run. Didn't exactly bode well for the future...
Yet, the very next year, did IMLP as my first IM, had a great day, and KQ'd.
I certainly hadn't done a 2:40 open Mary prior (hadn't done any Marys prior - LP was my first), and as we all know, I was, and still am, a crap swimmer.
And he's not hopeless on the bike either - I believe he said the 2:33 included some mechanical-related stops.

The OP needs to work on his swim*, and bike. Especially his bike.
(*he should really get into the ST swim thing going on RIGHT NOW)
He can probably put the run on maintenance mode w/ say 30-40 mpw for a while, and focus his energies on his weaknesses.
I agree, that in today's world, and in his AG, that a KQ is very much a longshot. But not entirely impossible.




float , hammer , and jog

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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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"I love ST. Where advice about training turns into a thread with marriage advice."

Don't you agree they often go hand in hand?

Sometimes I think there must be only three types of posters on these IM advice threads - bachelors, divorced guys, and soon to be divorced guys. :-)
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Also keep in mind, Murph, in his AG he needs to be top 3 likely. Older folks can be 5th or 6th and get a slot. ;) And even with mechanicals, he clearly biked far too hard, negating tat split.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jul 3, 13 18:47
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Trirunner] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
How is it going?

Not shabby at all. She's sitting 2 feet away reading a book & she didn't dump me on the cross country road trip. But there is always tomorrow so I'll have to do something impressive to keep her. Probably laundry.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [shady] [ In reply to ]
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For your argument to have any validity wouldn't you first have to know the level of training he did leading up to Timberman?

It'd be nice but it's not a necessity.

fwiw and I think Bryancd wouldn't mind me saying this since we raced each other a fair bit as he was starting and I was finishing my racing career, he wasn't fast right out of the box. But he did a lot, and I mean a lot of work to get fast.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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To the OP - Find a masters swim group and start swimming at least 4x each week. Find the meanest, tallest, chubby, over-the-hill ex-collegiate swimmer who likes to do stupid workouts like 15x300 workouts. You'll figure it out. As many have said, you need a bike trainer. If you can afford it, buy a Computrainer. Ride it. Every morning at o'dark thirty. I don't understand why you say you can only workout 10 hours a week. There is this thing called an alarm clock. Get one, set it to 2 hours before you have to leave for work/make your wife breakfast and ride your trainer for 1.5 hours every morning. Not just spinning but hard quality-type stuff. That will get you close to 20 hours a week. Maintain that badass run. 40 miles of running per week should be enough. Repeat x however many weeks you have until your race. You're welcome.

Love,
T
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Also keep in mind, Murph, in his AG he needs to be top 3 likely. Older folks can be 5th or 6th and get a slot. ;) And even with mechanicals, he clearly biked far too hard, negating tat split.

Back in the day, ancient doodes like me could be 12th and get a slot.
Ah, the tymes of olde.

I don't think the OP is as totally FUBAR'd as you do.
But I wouldn't bet a lotta $ on him getting it done either.


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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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this thread needs a meme



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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Ignore most advice from ST. Especially if it comes from a guy who says you have virtually no shot, then proceeds to tell you how awesome he is. You definitely have a shot, best of luck!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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I'll disagree on this occasion with your "not even the slimmest of chances" assessment (BTW I read all your posts and generally respect the advicve you give).

I think you may have misread WX's results - I think he means Timberman 2011 (not 2012). So, after 5-6 months of cycling he rides a 2:33 (with mechanicals) and then runs a 1:25. Neither times are spectacular but certainly in the realms of Kona qualifier if he can improve his bike. The 2:40 open mara is not completely "meaningless" to the discussion - it goes some way to showing he has a good engine and at least the capability to KQ.

Go for it WX, yes it's a long shot but I think you're in the ballpark. What I would say is a 3:00 IM marathon is ambitious (especially with your lack of biking) - sub 3:15 is more realistic. As others have said focus on the bike, you need to be strong so you're in a postion off the bike to run to your potential. Swim - I'd not spend too much effort reducing your time (alot of training time for minimal return). If you can get out of the water in 70mins feeling very comfortable that will be far better than a 65min swim that leaves you shelled for the bike.

Top 3-4 in AG is the goal for KQ but ballpark I'd target times of 1:10 5:15 3:10. Will put you in around 9:40 mark, probably not enough for KQ but who knows on the day. Good luck and keep us posted.
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