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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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"I wouldn't marry a woman who wanted to do Ironman triathlons. It's way too self-centred a sport. "

When my wife won the Kona lottery it was regarded as a one time thing but although I was very supportive, her training schedule drove me nuts - allowed no spontaneous activities at all. We were invited on a boat weekend on a 42 ft trawler but had to pass because my wife had a long run on Saturday and a long ride on Sunday. Passed up a weekend at a cottage on a lake for the same reason. We didn't scuba dive once that entire summer. Triathlon was always a lot of fun for both of us when we both did the short course events with the occassional 1/2 because we still had time for other hobbies/interests as well as each other, but her training for Kona left no time for anything else. Fortunately it did pay off and she had a spectacular race for a newbie.

Fortunately it really was only a one time thing. Had she wished to continue with IM I probably would have divorced her.
Last edited by: cerveloguy: Jul 2, 13 20:07
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [toreishi] [ In reply to ]
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toreishi wrote:
Ummmm, (and this is coming from a female) seriously ?! Your wife is telling you what you can and cannot do ?
Good luck. With everything.

Another female here (married too) - ditto this.




My triathlon training blog
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Was thinking I'd do treadmill/spin sessions in sweats - did you do anything better for heat acclimatization?

How big is your bathroom? I've done spin sessions with a warm shower running/ door closed. I find sweats get in the way and I can't ride well, but some nice warm sticky air is the perfect substitute for warm climate. As long as you don't mind paying for the extra hot water.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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colinlaughery wrote:
Grindcore wrote:
toreishi wrote:
Ummmm, (and this is coming from a female) seriously ?! Your wife is telling you what you can and cannot do ?
Good luck. With everything.


+1

Agreed, but isn't that just how it works? Am I missing something?

Your Balls?
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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What happens if/when you qualify for Kona and you have only been allotted the next 9 months to train? Are you going to do nothing from March to October and just show up, or has your wife also given you an additional 6 months of training time if you qualify?

Also will you be OK if you train for the next 9 months and don't qualify? I would try to not put so much pressure on yourself for this event. Train hard, have fun, and tell yourself no matter what happens you will be happy about the experience.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [xtremrun] [ In reply to ]
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Well played. Very well played.

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New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [Yosa125] [ In reply to ]
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Yosa125 wrote:
What happens if/when you qualify for Kona and you have only been allotted the next 9 months to train? Are you going to do nothing from March to October and just show up, or has your wife also given you an additional 6 months of training time if you qualify?

Also will you be OK if you train for the next 9 months and don't qualify? I would try to not put so much pressure on yourself for this event. Train hard, have fun, and tell yourself no matter what happens you will be happy about the experience.

I think this right here sums it up pretty well..
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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looks like you are hoping for a great race off of pure running fitness. Probably not going to work. You need bike fitness. I have a 2:39 open marathon and can do a 37:00 10K in an olympic tri but in 2 ironmnn I could only manage 3:30. Why? I burnt myself out on the bike and swim trying to do the splits that I needed to be in contention for a kona slot. This is despite good bike training (averaging 8 hours a week for 4+ months) a powermeter and 95% of the best equipment money can buy. My point is that you cannot do a great ironman marathon without being able to handle the bike and swim. Your plan will not allow you to handle the bike and swim. I suggest that you back off on the running and start a whole lot of biking now.

Other major issues
- los cabos in march coming from boston. Seriously? That means near zero riding outdoors. Is it too late to pick a different race?

- no tris in the last 2 years.

- you say you have no space for a trainer at home and you will be biking on the spinner at the gym. If there is actually anyone out there who did an ironman off of pure spinner training I can guarantee that they did not qualify for kona. (ok, maybe if they were the only finisher in an old age group). I can't believe nobody had jumped on you for this yet. This is like trying to BQ by only training on an elliptical.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Gameplan: 1:10 swim w/ wetsuit, 5:20 bike, 3:00 run, 5min transition gets me to 9:35 and a shot

With a 2:40 stand-alone marathon PB, you are ON PAPER within range to get to 3:00 for the marathon. However, training for events like this and the event itself involves so many variables it's really hard to predict absolute outcomes. And stand-alone marathon running has little in common with the running of a marathon at the end of an IM. This is poorly understood by many. That 2:40 PB marathon gives you a ticket to the show, but you still have to come through and perform. I've seen much faster marathon runners, absolutely crushed by the run in an IM.

An extension of that is, because of so many variables, why just "one shot"? Will this be your first IM? It's rare that everything goes to plan with veterans when everything goes right in training and on race day for an IM race. In your debut - all bets are off. There will come a time on race day where you'll cross over into an aerobic-no-mans-land where you've never been and you'll really not know what the outcome will be. You only ever get there actually racing IM's.

The run will be key and critical for you. That's good, because few, even those competing for top age-group spots and IQ's are running that fast. Many are in total survival mode beyond a certain point on the run. This sets up a HUGE opportunity for those who can really run well and strongly for the FULL marathon. You can massively improve place performance by doing this, but as mentioned previously, a lot of things need to line up and go-right for that to happen.

YMMV.







Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Jul 3, 13 7:30
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [jonahsdad] [ In reply to ]
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jonahsdad wrote:
looks like you are hoping for a great race off of pure running fitness. Probably not going to work. You need bike fitness. I have a 2:39 open marathon and can do a 37:00 10K in an olympic tri but in 2 ironmnn I could only manage 3:30. Why? I burnt myself out on the bike and swim trying to do the splits that I needed to be in contention for a kona slot. This is despite good bike training (averaging 8 hours a week for 4+ months) a powermeter and 95% of the best equipment money can buy. My point is that you cannot do a great ironman marathon without being able to handle the bike and swim. Your plan will not allow you to handle the bike and swim. I suggest that you back off on the running and start a whole lot of biking now.

Other major issues
- los cabos in march coming from boston. Seriously? That means near zero riding outdoors. Is it too late to pick a different race?

- no tris in the last 2 years.

- you say you have no space for a trainer at home and you will be biking on the spinner at the gym. If there is actually anyone out there who did an ironman off of pure spinner training I can guarantee that they did not qualify for kona. (ok, maybe if they were the only finisher in an old age group). I can't believe nobody had jumped on you for this yet. This is like trying to BQ by only training on an elliptical.

Potts does most of his training on a trainer, but he does get outside to ride, a little. But, I digress, he's a pro.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [TylerJ] [ In reply to ]
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I applaud you for pursuing your dream - go for it! Most of all, make sure you enjoy the opportunity that many would love to have - a dedicated chance to train for, and the potential to realize a great athletic accomplishment. Here are my initial recommendations:

The swim can be so important for setting up the whole day. Learn to swim with less effort - not brute force - so that you don't shoot your whole wad in the first hour of the race, you can use up way too much of your stored glycogen here that will not be available later. Think about doing longer sets like 10x200 @ 3:20 instead of the 100 yard sets (eventually moving to 300 and 400 yard sets). Give yourself time goals for a 800 yard time trial, which is long enough to gauge swim improvement, without being so hard mentally and physically for someone who does not have a swimming background. Do this test regularly.

Be comfortable on your bike - 5+ hours is a long time and many slow down late in a race due to body aches as much as bike fitness. You are time limited, but every other week allow extra time to get at least one day with some more saddle time. An uncomfortable position can also make it more difficult to take in and process liquid/food.

A 3:00 run is ambitious, but a 2:40 open time is good and if you know if you have more upside potential. Evaluate and set a realistic goal time, and practice a lot at that pace, so that your body becomes adept at taking in nutrition and hydrating at that specific pace. Your program seems run focused, make it your strength and race that way. Remember, its not about being fast as much as it is about not slowing down late in the race. Be prepared to have to run down others, all the way to the end for that spot.

Know why you are doing this - mental toughness can mean a lot late in a race. Most ask themselves "why am I doing this" or "is it worth it" or "can I keep it going" or whatever. Answer this questions before hand.

I know it is your "one chance" but I encourage you not to make success only realted to the outcome.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [d00d] [ In reply to ]
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d00d wrote:
jonahsdad wrote:
- you say you have no space for a trainer at home and you will be biking on the spinner at the gym. If there is actually anyone out there who did an ironman off of pure spinner training I can guarantee that they did not qualify for kona. (ok, maybe if they were the only finisher in an old age group). I can't believe nobody had jumped on you for this yet. This is like trying to BQ by only training on an elliptical.


Potts does most of his training on a trainer, but he does get outside to ride, a little. But, I digress, he's a pro.

Potts rides on his tri bike, in aero, on his trainer, in his garage. This guy wants to train on a spinner in the gym. I have done 5 hour trainer rides but could not imagine doing them on the gym spinner.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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When my wife won the Kona lottery it was regarded as a one time thing but although I was very supportive, her training schedule drove me nuts - allowed no spontaneous activities at all. We were invited on a boat weekend on a 42 ft trawler but had to pass because my wife had a long run on Saturday and a long ride on Sunday. Passed up a weekend at a cottage on a lake for the same reason. We didn't scuba dive once that entire summer. Triathlon was always a lot of fun for both of us when we both did the short course events with the occassional 1/2 because we still had time for other hobbies/interests as well as each other, but her training for Kona left no time for anything else. Fortunately it did pay off and she had a spectacular race for a newbie.

Bingo!

The flip-side.

There is the odd freak who can do something like this on less, but generally speaking, depending on the back-ground of the individual it's about more and more. Training now to get to a sub 10 and mid 9 hrs IM, can be massively time consumptive - and that's just in the years and years of build up. Remember that, if you are talking to a really good coach and you're new to the sport and with a decent back-ground of endurance sports fitness, they will have you on a 4 - 5 year plan. They say that it takes 4 - 5 years of solid base training to get ready to really race an IM at this level. . . and it's true.

Que the stories of the freaks who did it on less. Note the word freak! :) For the rest of us, it's a long multi-year journey. That's way they also say, that you need to enjoy the journey!





Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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A couple of things I noticed in your plan...

1. If you only have 10 hrs a week to train, I wouldn't run 70-80 mpw. Spend more time on your bike.
2. You need to get used to being aero for 5-6 hours. That's not going to happen on the spinning bike at the gym.
3. I know a handful of guys who are 2:30 marathoners who have not run 3:00 off the bike. It takes more than run fitness to run 3:00 off the bike.
4. Get swim instruction as soon as possible.
5. I'd search for posts by BrianPBN to look at different nutritional strategies for IM. He posts plans from pros and AGers he works with
Last edited by: dmorris: Jul 3, 13 8:00
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say you/your wife have something deeper going on.

It's possible to do family events both planned and spontaneous when training for Ironman - you simply have to prioritize things.

I'm amazed at how many people train for Ironman as if it's all consuming and you have to be doing 5 or 6 hour rides, 5 or 6 months in advance.

For IMCDA, I didn't ride longer than roughly 4 (probably closer to 3) hours until 6 or 7 weeks before the race. Granted, as Fleck would point out, I have many years of base fitness supporting me, but some people go to crazy extents.

For example - I spoke with a guy last week about Ironman training. He couldn't believe I trained as "little" as I did, and was even more astounded that I worked a full time job while doing it (training for Ironman). Even more crazy he was only thinking about it from a completion/participation perspective, not a competitive perspective. He actually thought that to do it, you needed to take a year off of work in order to train and get the fitness, simply to complete it.

Type A personalities strike again!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Hah! I just gave my fiance clearance to do a HIM the weekend before our wedding, while I'm on my bachelorette trip. His first full will be 2 months after :) We will be spending a lot of time side-by-side on our trainers.


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You. You make me stronger.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [dmorris] [ In reply to ]
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Especially agree with #3, as others have said. Running a good marathon split is more about bike fitness than anything. For the love of all that is good please do not do your bike training on a gym spinner. Make room for a trainer. If you can stand your bike up in your place you have room. Spinners are good for working up a good sweat, that's about it. Best of luck man.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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The best to you in this goal. I predict you'll do well.

Have fun along the way!
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Don't count on this but....

My wife was totally sick of IM training this spring. partly because she was injured and, I think, a little envious of my ability to train. Be that as it may, she came to my 70.3 this spring and got so pumped that now she is back on board. Yesterday I got home from a long workout to find the baby asleep and my wife riding the trainer watching Kona on Youtube. WTF? My mind was blown (she doesn't race tris)

She has gone from telling me I'm "too skinny" to telling me to "put down the snacks, you need to lose 5 more lbs to be my best". She says this tongue in cheek but she when she does, she is at least showing me how well she understands the goal....

You never know what might happen.
That said don't count on it.
and as an aside, I'm done after this year (at least with IM) of my own volition, having now watched what she has had to go through to let me train. But thats a separate issue. I made that choice.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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WX wrote:
Okay, so I have one window to train for and one race to qualify for Kona. I've read through many of the training threads, and think I have a plan. Would love to hear everyone's advice and will keep updating this to keep up the motivation.


Backstory: Just got married, got clearance from wife for one shot at reaching this goal. Any energy wasted on why, how, etc, is silly. This is it, folks! Think Eminem when he was still angry. Haven't done a triathlon since 2011 but have dreamed about one many times.

THE race: IM Los Cabos. March, 2014 (gives me 9 months to train).

Why I think (hope?) this is possible: recent 2:40 open marathon, under 30, ultramarathons have taught me nutrition needs, pulled a 2:33 bike leg at Timberman with 2 mechanical stops, penchant for suffering, analytical nerd
Why this will be hard: 10 hours/week of training and no swimming until September, poor swimmer (10x100 @ 1:40), honeymoon in Asia during Christmas, no powertap or coach (again, let's not worry about why)

Gameplan: 1:10 swim w/ wetsuit, 5:20 bike, 3:00 run, 5min transition gets me to 9:35 and a shot

Training plan:
Phase 1 (5 months, peak at 70.3 late this year, Miamiman? Or something early Dec even better... thoughts?)
- July-August: Get running up to 70-80mi/week (Hansen's philosophy), Cycle on spinner in gym (best use of time, not enough space for trainer at home) 3x/week (2x20', 5x6', 40-45' temp)
- Sept-Oct: running 5K in mid-16's, half in ~1:15; cycling: 4x/week with a longer ride in there; swim 3x/week
- November: peak for half-ironman. Goal of 4:25ish. Dial in nutrition.
- December: Honeymoon... maintenance runs, maybe swims in ocean, little biking opportunity

Phase 2 (3 months, peaking at Los Cabos)
- Jan-Feb: big bike focus. In Boston so will be all indoors (fun!), but hope to build ginormous thighs. Maintain running fitness. Get swim down to 10x100@1:35 through brute force.
- March: get swim technique coaching, drills, get swim down
- Race day: beg/borrow/steal fancy wheels, aerohelmet. Pray my hamstrings don't cramp.

Without a powermeter is there any way I can get a gauge on how my bike fitness is progressing? Like what metric should I use to be able to be comfortable riding a 5-hour bike split? I do have a HRM if that'd be helpful.

Anyways - thanks for reading my self-serving manifesto. My body is also up for sale - happy to borrow/wear anyone's kit for coaching advice. (low odds but thought I'd throw it out there). All advice/criticism welcome!


I'm not going to explain to you how to Kona qualify as there are many guys who already explained that to you. Maybe it is your choice of words, but the following words in your post don't sound good in the long term:

  1. one window
  2. got clearance
  3. one shot

Sounds like if you fail at making it to Kona, you/your marriage MAY be miserable. And if you DO make it to Kona, you'll need to do another Ironman build, in which case you will need a second window, get clearanace again and get a second shot.


If something is important enough to you in your marriage then you should be able to decide to do it within reason and IM training CAN happen within reason. And if something is important enough for your wife, she should be able to do it too. But depriving you of doing something should not be anything on her importance "list". If it is, then better to clear that up now.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Ya might, ya might not. The important part is the journey. Train as hard as you can with the time you can carve out and see what happens. Having the goal and putting in the sacrifice and sweat is what is so cool about this great sport of ours. You always learn things about yourself, achieve things you never thought possible and you'll have a great experience when it's all over. Regardless of the result it'll be a great adventure and a win for you personally.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [irontri] [ In reply to ]
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Wow - quite a set of responses by the time I logged in this morning. You guys are great. I do love how half of the posts are around the relationship issue, so let me address that first...

Look, I'd be lying if I said that this wouldn't be easier if I were single, but reading this a few years ago really struck a nerve: http://online.wsj.com/...116083514534672.html. Until my wife gets hooked on tris (working on it!), training for Kona is a very much a clearance thing in my mind. I will guaranteed be a worse husband over this next year (the first year of our marriage, I might add). I will be gone. I will be tired. I will be less fun at night. I will be thinking about training, or nutrition, or any number of things related to tri's that will be distracting. As Sanuk and others have mentioned, I wouldn't want to be married to me during this time. For my future, I will be working ~60 hours/week. With a family and social life, repeated long-course tris are not sustainable. I have many other dreams that work well with her: eating, traveling, drinking, etc. These are all choices I have made, and I own that. She's understanding and supportive of my current goals. Let's just all be happy and start working out.

Onto the training! Adjustments I will make for the summer due to your feedback:

- Running to work (+25 mpw @ 0 hours). Reduce to 50mpw total. @jonahsdad FWIW I ran the 2:40 off of 2 months of elliptical training 3 months before the race due to an injury. If anyone wants the truly mind-numbing plan, PM me.

- Apply those extra 2.5 hours to biking. Aim for 8 hours of cycling per week. Is there a rule-of-thumb mileage people aim for? Is 120mpw good? 150? More the better? Anyone want to do early morning rides in SF?
*Clarification: I do have a bike with me, just no trainer for the summer. Therefore, I am able to go riding outdoors before work, with spinner as supplement. After September I will have a trainer through the Boston winter.

- Swim 1x/week to remember how to swim. Get coached in September when I can swim 3x+ per week

Responses to questions:
@radelj44: I may be really weird, but for me, getting faster is the fun part, not the journey. Whatever boring, painful, steps I have to take there is more than fine, as long as it helps me get to the goal.
@bryancd and others: I have never done an IM. I will find a local race later this month/early August to establish a baseline and report back. I started riding a bike and learned how to swim in March of 2011. That August I was 9th in my AG at Timberman (25-29) - yes, now you all know who I am, but whatever, this is the internet. You knew already anyways. I'm now faster running-wise and will focus on blowing up bike fitness.
@An old guy: I picked 9:30 as a realistic stretch goal given constraints. I wish I could be faster for you, but you know, life. And genes. Damn you, mom and dad.
@sentania: thanks for the advice!
@Yosa: Let's get to the how do I train for Kona question when we get there. :)
@TheBeek: you've just described my hottest dream. Sorry, was than overshare?
@irontri, @Fleck, @steves, others with great advice that I can't scroll down to see: you are awesome. That is all
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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Don't sweat the results of each workout, trying to hit goal times etc, don't let numbers get you down. Have a long term focus that looks past each workout. Fitness gains and performance results are not always linear, they sometimes come in small steps instead. You will be accumulating some fatigue along the way and could even feel tired and get slower at times. This is an aerobic sport, not a power sport, it takes time for some physiological changes to take place.

Schedule your recovery, that can be good opportunities for wife and life and other things.

Think hard about how you plan for a taper, especially if you will still be doing only about 10 hrs per week, you may need less taper than is typical.
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Re: One shot at Kona - here goes! [WX] [ In reply to ]
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This ends one of two ways:

1) you get injured running 70-80 MPW on tired legs because of your dumb ass cycling plan
2) you get to the start line and then DNF 6 miles into the run after blowing up biblically. Running 7 minute miles after a 5:10 is not going to happen with such shitty biking fitness.

In either scenario, your wife probably ends up leaving you when she reconciles your 6 months of ignoring her during this silly pipe dream of yours, all the money you spent on aero crap and the fact that you didnt even get a finishers medal, a mike Reily shout out or the day after tattoo. Don't be that guy.
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