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"Men today"
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Thrilled to see that you have a new columnist. Horrified to see that it is a man posing as a woman. A woman who values other women would not use the term pussy; a perjorative, derogatory term for female. (Marion Woodman would call this person a "father's daughter.") One who belittles the feminine just as the patriarchy does. This columnist is a woman who has not learned how to integrate her full self; she still views the world from a man's perspective.

There is a place in sport for the feminine - I took it to the line with me in IM FLorida last November. There is a place for the whole athlete to show up to the race. Toughness, competitiveness and persistence are required, of course. But so are groundedness, connectedness and yes, at times, surrender.Ask Dave Scott. Or Tim DeBoom. Decidedly "feminine" qualities but crucial to a complete athletic experience as a whole human being.

Please replace this "female" columnist with a real woman - one who knows what that means.
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"Trolls Today" NM [ In reply to ]
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NM
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Re: "Trolls Today" NM [elund] [ In reply to ]
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Sometimes the troll truth hurts.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: "Men today" [fe gal] [ In reply to ]
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"But so are groundedness, connectedness and yes, at times, surrender.Ask Dave Scott. Or Tim DeBoom. Decidedly "feminine" qualities"

Interesting thoughts, and well conceived. I don't happen to agree in this instance, but well conceived nonetheless.

The part I take exception to is that these are somehow "feminine" qualities, or any gender based quality. I don't think those aspects of a person's character are gender specific.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: "Men today" [fe gal] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't get your post until I read that article. I agree, that woman has serious issues. She equates everything weak and sensitive with female and everthying strong and stoic with male. Furthermore, her article has nothing to do with women in sport except for some weird self hatred. I actually wish I hadn't read it. Hope this thread doesn't steer anyone to it. Believe me it ain''t worth the electrons used to post it.


Patricia
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Re: "Men today" [Trillini] [ In reply to ]
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I don't agree with everything in the article to the degree it is stated: I think it is rather short sighted. But, it is an editorial- an opinion piece. It would be less useful as a viewpoint if it were less polarized.

I enjoyed reading it, am glad the writer spoke ther mind, and am glad it is up. I think it is wrong, but I enjoyed the read. A big part of me admires the candor in it.

Perhaps it worth considering- if it weren't for the extremem viewpoint of the article, we wouldn't have been able to explore the contrary view, such as yours and to a degree, my own.

Strong opinions usually invoke strong responses.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: "Men today" [Trillini] [ In reply to ]
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I thought both fe gal's post and the original article were quite interesting. They make good points attacking stereotypes. I am not sure I agree with either one, but I would not want to be on the opposite side of the argument from them either.

I thought self hatred was a bit harsh. Self image issues would be a bit more on target.
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Re: "Men today" [ajfranke] [ In reply to ]
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I laughed my ass off at that piece.

anybody remember the song ' sensitive new age guy'

funny funny funny.

but be careful what you ask for. paula cole's song ' where have all the cowboys gone' showed both sides of that story.

can a macho man handle a strong woman?

hmmmm..it's to this writers credit she's strong and wants men to be too.


_______________________________________________________________

"the trouble with normal is - it always gets worse"

- Cockburn
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Re: "Men today" [ajfranke] [ In reply to ]
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"A woman who values other women would not use the term pussy; a perjorative, derogatory term for female"

I thought this was an interesting sentence. As a guy who values other guys, I have no problem using the term "dick." I also don't think the term "pussy" is a derogatory term for a female, but rather it is usually used as a derogatory term for a guy who isn't quite manly enough.

Regardless, the columnist does seem to have some issues with both traditional femenine and masculine roles and very little tolerance for women who don't act tough like her, or men who don't live up to her standards for toughness as well. Too bad. I agree it seems to be a self-image issue. Sounded like she decided, for instance, that softball sucks just because it wasn't what the boys played. Having seen some of the college and Olympic softball games recently, I can safely say it doesn't suck, and the girls aren't whiners. Plus they're real pretty.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: "Men today" [fe gal] [ In reply to ]
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"Feminine" qualities meaning the yin of things (versus yang); not gender-based. I should have been clearer. The feminine in me apologizes.
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Re: "Men today" [fe gal] [ In reply to ]
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And the masculine in me wants to puke at the thought of apologizing.
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Re: "Men today" [fe gal] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't read the article, but somehow I am not surprised that you would be taken aback by what you read. Sadly, women are the fastest growing segment of triathlon, but you see pitifully few of them posting here (at least in comparison to the very high no. of male posts). Perhaps it is because some of those women are also horrified by what they read? Might it just maybe have to do with the fact that certain quite popular folks and editors here write things like this?: "i need your 3X/yr. reminder of how shitty women are, at which point i re-flagellate myself, harshly, for ever even contemplating making a really stupid mistake w/the foul sex". But when called on it, it is called a joke, of course--but that is the lamest rationalization of them all...





Where would you want to swim ?
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Re: "Men today" [fe gal] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah... something isn't passing the stink test there...
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Re: "Men today" [fe gal] [ In reply to ]
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"And the masculine in me wants to puke at the thought of apologizing. "

and a statement like this written by a guy about something more feminine would have been seen as really not PC...so you want guys to respect women, accept they are equal, etc. and not make stupid stereotype comments, yet you do so yourself...funny.
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Re: "Men today" [fe gal] [ In reply to ]
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I always find this interesting ...

This post complains of the use of a derogitory term, "pussy" as it is offensive to women.

Then the poster uses a term "father's daughter" which as a father of a daughter I find to just be idiodic, and could easily be offensive (Personally, I am not offended by a female commenting on maleness. Why?). I would also imagine that Woodman does not mind if the term offends men, since she likely uses it to turn a profit.

--------------------------

Here's what's bothering me ... [1] I am tired of hearing women comment on manhood and what it is like to be a man, or what men should be, etc. You don't know. You never will. Be quiet. Women don't even understand women, let alone begin to understand men. Really. [2] Men ... act like it. More and more, I am seeing relationships where the woman is both the man and woman of the house, and the "grown man" behaves like a 27yo teenager doing whatever he pleases, until his "mom" (wife) gets on him for "wasting time". It's ridiculous.

I haven't read every post in the "men" threads lately, so my comment may be a little off. It happens. Really, I just want women to be quiet about issues related to manhood. Their view of a "man" is usually very far off from what many men view as being a "man". A man is not "a girl with a penis".

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
Last edited by: TripleThreat: Jun 26, 05 14:10
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Re: "Men today" [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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My response is a little bit of a tangent but your statement "strong opinions usually invoke strong responses" is so, sometimes unfortuneately true. I believe that has gotten to be a problem in our society. Everytime some troll pundit or politician makes some asinine comment s/he get huge coverage and, I've heard, a bump in their donations. So they become better known and get more work. The level headed, appropriate people who try to do good responsible work get ignored. So in that light I don't have a whole lot of interest in steering anyone toward a work that seems to me stereotypical and demeaning. I don't believe that whiny is a female trait. Last time I watched a little girls soccer game they were knocking each other all over the field. And a stranger that complains about his s/o at a party is inappropriate. S/he may or may not also be a "pussy" So, enjoy the editorial, you're entitled to it. I just wouldn't recommend it if someone asked my opinion.

Pat
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Re: "Men today" [fe gal] [ In reply to ]
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Are you hot? Pics plz.
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Re: "Men today" [Greg X] [ In reply to ]
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Even more lame is that you are one of two geniuses who didn't get the joke immediately. Do people shake their heads a lot when they talk to you?

Incidentally, do you work for Drudge? Your ability to use quotes out of context is second to none.
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Re: "Men today" [fe gal] [ In reply to ]
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My brain hurts from reading this thread; even more, surprisingly, than from reading the ones about the "lightest pedals", lactate tolerance, and the tolerance levels for heart rate questions.

I'm going to sleep now. My own tolerance levels are low tonight. Nighty-nite slowtwitchers.



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"If you hold on tight to what you think is your thing, you might find you're missing all the rest"

Dave Matthews
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