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Re: Brett Sutton Article [Bok] [ In reply to ]
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thank you for you taking the time to offer your insights.

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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>The Slow-Twit lynch mob still won't miss a chance to gather together on their horses flame in hand, ready to string up whoever has been designated the witch of the day.

>Pathetic

I know very little about Sutton, but as someone who spent 10-years coaching minors, I feel that a very strong message should be sent to anyone who coaches minors about the consequences of such behavior (if the prosecution's quotations are accurate), which is all too common (e.g. US Swimming). A united message from both the legal system, and the athlete community in general. Zero tolerance for this behavior. Sutton appears to have sidestepped the punishment, and the community gave a general, "meh." I just don't accept the "making up for it" argument where the manner of "making up for it" is determined at the pleasure and timeline of the offender.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [Bok] [ In reply to ]
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Mr. Bok,

You throw out a lot of charges against people who ask legitimate questions. You question their motives and intent. You also speak a lot about Sutton's motives, and the intent in his heart. I'm surprised you can be so cynical about one and so accepting of the other.

Regardless, most of us are in fact looking for facts and for truth, and are not questioning intent and motives. Yesterday I asked you a couple of straightforward questions, which you've still avoided answering. Here they are again:
  1. How often has Sutton's role with team TBB brought him into contact with those under the age of 18? Please describe those circumstances.
  2. The TBB website and press releases about the youth teams in the Philippines and Mexico all stress Brett's role as the head coach and discuss his involvement with the youth social programs. It's universally understood that a head coach has authority over his team--who makes the team, who's cut, etc.

    • Are you saying that, as head coach of the youth teams, he in fact has no authority over them?
    • Are you saying that the information on your website about his involvement with the youth social programs is greatly exaggerated, and that he has no direct involvement with the children?
  3. Will Sutton's ongoing work with team TBB place him in contact with anyone under the age of 18?

Finally, I'd encourage you to follow up on your offer to ask the top 20 female triathletes to respond here about their view of Sutton. And, if they do, I'll ask them the following question:
  • Is Sutton still manipulative, authoritarian and self-aggrandizing? The media portrays him as such, and he comes across this way in interviews and his own writing. I am curious as to what others would say. For, when we talk about reform, we are really talking about reforming the characteristics that led to the crime. And, as far as I can tell, those are the qualities that largely contributed to his crime 27 years ago. Note that remorse is very, very different than reform. And I have yet to hear anyone say that he has reformed those characteristics.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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avagoyamug wrote:

You do realize this was one incident 30 some years ago? There are many life long paedophiles who should be kept away from kids at all costs.

It's face palmingly obvious that Sutton is not one of them.

The Slow-Twit lynch mob still won't miss a chance to gather together on their horses flame in hand, ready to string up whoever has been designated the witch of the day.

Pathetic.

You say it's one incident but i can't blame people for doubt. Have you heard about the BBC sex abuse case that's been ongoing? Decades of abuse by a "beloved broadcaster", because people didn't report it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20981611 We don't know what's gone on. If it really was one event, maybe he's redeemed and I hope so, but I can't blame people for being uncomfortable with some of the recent news about situations he's allowing himself to be in that maybe a convicted child molester shouldn't be.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [Bok] [ In reply to ]
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Mr Bok,

I like others appreciate you candid assessment of you thoughts about Brett Sutton.

I do hope that you read my <earlier> post. We were probably typing at the same time.

I do have to take issue with some points that you made.

1. Brett Sutton IS a child molester. He was convicted. To try to deny that fact is unfortunate. Is he a "serial" child molester. Actually, yes. He "serially" molested a 14 y.o. girl over several years. Has he had other victims, not that we know of.

2. At the age of 27, you are no longer allowed to have "youthful mistakes". Most are well into their careers and have lots of responsibilities (marriage, children, etc.).

3. Brett Sutton does not "appear" to be a broken man. He is arguably the most successful triathlon coach in history. Has a wife, a family and is making loads of money. Does he feel remorse for what he did. Likely. But please see my <earlier> post for my thoughts on the depth of his understanding of his crime.

4. I am finding it somewhat distasteful that you continue to use your wife to justify your relationship with Brett. "My wife was molested and she really likes him". Unless your wife as a psychologist has done a formal evaluation and is giving him ongoing treatment than her opinion really should not come into play. There are lots of people who commit crimes that are very charismatic.

5. I accept your challenge. You get 20 female athletes who have been sexually molested as children to post on this forum supporting Brett Sutton and I'll have a better understanding of his "rehabilitation". Try it. So far on this forum there has not been a single poster who has identified themselves as female who has supported Brett Sutton. Which is what this thread lacks. A point of reference. We are like the 20 old white guys making legislation on reproductive rights.

6. I am glad that your wife has been able to come to terms with her experience but we have no way of knowing if Sutton's victim has. As a wealthy Asian banker I am sure that your wife had many resources available to her that others may not. Your wife sounds like an extraordinary individual but her experience should and cannot be considered the norm or applied to others.

You hired and work with a convicted child molester. That was your choice based on your convictions and the information that you gathered. I respect that. But that does not mean that you shouldn't be challenged on that decision.

Again, thanks for posting.
Last edited by: ironpsych: Jan 13, 13 19:00
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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pick6 wrote:
avagoyamug wrote:


You do realize this was one incident 30 some years ago? There are many life long paedophiles who should be kept away from kids at all costs.

It's face palmingly obvious that Sutton is not one of them.

The Slow-Twit lynch mob still won't miss a chance to gather together on their horses flame in hand, ready to string up whoever has been designated the witch of the day.

Pathetic.


You say it's one incident but i can't blame people for doubt. Have you heard about the BBC sex abuse case that's been ongoing? Decades of abuse by a "beloved broadcaster", because people didn't report it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20981611 We don't know what's gone on. If it really was one event, maybe he's redeemed and I hope so, but I can't blame people for being uncomfortable with some of the recent news about situations he's allowing himself to be in that maybe a convicted child molester shouldn't be.

Yes I know all about jimmy Saville. And what he did and what Sutton did are in different post codes. One with a lifelong list of over 500 victims, I wonder never defend that scumbag and would be hurling the same vitriole that the lynch mob here want to throw at Sutton and even worse if he was still alive.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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+1, don't want to get into the merits of the case either but appreciate the time to come on and add to the debate.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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Well, your questions are a bit stupid, really, so I don't think he will answer them.

Should he not bring his daughters to school, because you know, he's going to be in contact with under 18 chidlren there. Who knows, he may jump on a few in front of everybody.

A hint for you: head coach of TBB (his title). Does not mean coach of the youth squads (which by all accounts he is not).

Cheers.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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we don't know how many victims Sutton has had. just like with saville, no one knew til later. could be others who have never come forward. no way to say one way or the other. Not uncommon for ppl not to come forward especially when no prosecution possible after tone passes
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [Bok] [ In reply to ]
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Bok wrote:
I spoke to many male and female athletes from the past and present who had been in contact with Brett throughout their career.
Alex

You didn't speak to the right ones.

I know one girl personally who told me a story about the guy. Not the 14 year old he molested, another girl that he coached, who left the sport when she was at the top of her game & ready to cash in. He didn't touch her, but if she was my daughter, I'd have punched his lights out.

I wouldn't spend a cent on any of the companies involved with TBB.
Nor would I spend a cent on any companies involved with Jordan Rapp.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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pick6 wrote:
we don't know how many victims Sutton has had. just like with saville, no one knew til later. could be others who have never come forward. no way to say one way or the other. Not uncommon for ppl not to come forward especially when no prosecution possible after tone passes

Yes that's true, but the Aus police spoke to pretty much every single athlete he coached and none had anything to report. It's pretty clear that is was just one girl. And Jimmy Saville was fiddling with hundreds of ten year old boys, and like those tens of thousands of evil catholic priests probably chose their career to have access to young boys.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ironpsych] [ In reply to ]
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ironpsych wrote:
Mr Bok,

I like others appreciate you candid assessment of you thoughts about Brett Sutton.

I do hope that you read my <earlier> post. We were probably typing at the same time.

I do have to take issue with some points that you made.

1. Brett Sutton IS a child molester. He was convicted. To try to deny that fact is unfortunate. Is he a "serial" child molester. Actually, yes. He "serially" molested a 14 y.o. girl over several years. Has he had other victims, not that we know of.

2. At the age of 27, you are no longer allowed to have "youthful mistakes". Most are well into their careers and have lots of responsibilities (marriage, children, etc.).

3. Brett Sutton does not "appear" to be a broken man. He is arguably the most successful triathlon coach in history. Has a wife, a family and is making loads of money. Does he feel remorse for what he did. Likely. But please see my <earlier> post for my thoughts on the depth of his understanding of his crime.

4. I am finding it somewhat distasteful that you continue to use your wife to justify your relationship with Brett. "My wife was molested and she really likes him". Unless your wife as a psychologist has done a formal evaluation and is giving him ongoing treatment than her opinion really should not come into play. There are lots of people who commit crimes that are very charismatic.

5. I accept your challenge. You get 20 female athletes who have been sexually molested as children to post on this forum supporting Brett Sutton and I'll have a better understanding of his "rehabilitation". Try it. So far on this forum there has not been a single poster who has identified themselves as female who has supported Brett Sutton. Which is what this thread lacks. A point of reference. We are like the 20 old white guys making legislation on reproductive rights.

6. I am glad that your wife has been able to come to terms with her experience but we have no way of knowing if Sutton's victim has. As a wealthy Asian banker I am sure that your wife had many resources available to her that others may not. Your wife sounds like an extraordinary individual but her experience should and cannot be considered the norm or applied to others.

You hired and work with a convicted child molester. That was your choice based on your convictions and the information that you gathered. I respect that. But that does not mean that you shouldn't be challenged on that decision.

Again, thanks for posting.

Damn. Alex posts a poignant, classy heart-felt piece like that and you respond with that??

Nothing but drivel. Alex has knocked you out and you are shouting insults from the canvas. Best to STFU now he have been out in your place.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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AlwaysCurious wrote:
Mr. Bok,

You throw out a lot of charges against people who ask legitimate questions. You question their motives and intent. You also speak a lot about Sutton's motives, and the intent in his heart. I'm surprised you can be so cynical about one and so accepting of the other.

Regardless, most of us are in fact looking for facts and for truth, and are not questioning intent and motives. Yesterday I asked you a couple of straightforward questions, which you've still avoided answering. Here they are again:
  1. How often has Sutton's role with team TBB brought him into contact with those under the age of 18? Please describe those circumstances.
  2. The TBB website and press releases about the youth teams in the Philippines and Mexico all stress Brett's role as the head coach and discuss his involvement with the youth social programs. It's universally understood that a head coach has authority over his team--who makes the team, who's cut, etc.

    • Are you saying that, as head coach of the youth teams, he in fact has no authority over them?
    • Are you saying that the information on your website about his involvement with the youth social programs is greatly exaggerated, and that he has no direct involvement with the children?
  3. Will Sutton's ongoing work with team TBB place him in contact with anyone under the age of 18?

Finally, I'd encourage you to follow up on your offer to ask the top 20 female triathletes to respond here about their view of Sutton. And, if they do, I'll ask them the following question:
  • Is Sutton still manipulative, authoritarian and self-aggrandizing? The media portrays him as such, and he comes across this way in interviews and his own writing. I am curious as to what others would say. For, when we talk about reform, we are really talking about reforming the characteristics that led to the crime. And, as far as I can tell, those are the qualities that largely contributed to his crime 27 years ago. Note that remorse is very, very different than reform. And I have yet to hear anyone say that he has reformed those characteristics.

Here's a web site for you to check out http://www.iamacompleteimbocile.com

Go to the sign up page for your weekly information letter.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
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realAlbertan wrote:
Wow.

I know 4.37 eh!

Maybe I should put in as a footer in all my posts.

4.37 112mile split

Most improved Northern eastern Sydney Suburbs egg and spoon race 1984.

Works?
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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The info about the brazil youth program still has gone unanswered by everyone. I provided direct info that has sutton "involved" with children. Now if the answer is that's cool because he didn't "directly" coach them, fine. But I've yet to get an understanding of why he and his organization has allowed him to still interact with children in a triathlon/sporting setting. Why was he allows to meet with 30 children in brazil, directly?

Again, all I keep getting is, sutton doesn't directly coach kids. Ill believe that, but is it ok for him to talk with and mingle with children that are in our sport? Is that really ok, when an situation like that can be stopped. And I'm not saying for him to live under a cave. I'm asking why on earth is he allowed to be in situations where he gets to come into direct contact with children while a teamTBB coach?

Again this was more than some "photo", and I'm not trying to dstroy anyone's credibility. What I'm interested in is answers, and that scenario has still failed to be addressed. But maybe it's cool with you and teamTBB to put sutton in those situations just as long as he isn't coaching. That is y'all's call, but please don't feed some company line that sutton doesn't come into contact with minors. That's simply not true based on what he himself has reported. Now maybe that was 5 years ago and some new policy has been formed/updated. I have no clue.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
The info about the brazil youth program still has gone unanswered by everyone. I provided direct info that has sutton "involved" with children. Now if the answer is that's cool because he didn't "directly" coach them, fine. But I've yet to get an understanding of why he and his organization has allowed him to still interact with children in a triathlon/sporting setting. Why was he allows to meet with 30 children in brazil, directly?

Again, all I keep getting is, sutton doesn't directly coach kids. Ill believe that, but is it ok for him to talk with and mingle with children that are in our sport? Is that really ok, when an situation like that can be stopped. And I'm not saying for him to live under a cave. I'm asking why on earth is he allowed to be in situations where he gets to come into direct contact with children while a teamTBB coach?

Again this was more than some "photo", and I'm not trying to dstroy anyone's credibility. What I'm interested in is answers, and that scenario has still failed to be addressed. But maybe it's cool with you and teamTBB to put sutton in those situations just as long as he isn't coaching. That is y'all's call, but please don't feed some company line that sutton doesn't come into contact with minors. That's simply not true based on what he himself has reported. Now maybe that was 5 years ago and some new policy has been formed/updated. I have no clue.

Yes you are on a mission from God. Do not rest until you find out if Sutton, sitting in his humble house in Switerland, gives advice to kids.

Keep fighting the good fight sir. It is a worthy cause.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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Just make sure you add he does it also on site. If you can't admit that you are being over dramatic in providing false info. I have no idea why you seem to want to deny what sutton himself has provided info on. So when you only say he does it from his home, you sir aren't living by facts. Maybe he does it now but he is on record as visiting brazil for the youth program 10-11 times. But you stick to saying he only does it from his house. Your credibility seems to be lost with every post you make.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: BDoughtie: Jan 14, 13 6:39
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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So who are you and what's your relationship to Sutton? ST is too smart of a place and you'll get outed eventually, so why don't you just tell us?

You've resorted to insulting people, you're not helping Sutton's case here. This is like the time Michael Weiss' father-in-law came on here try to defend Weiss, you're going to get figured out and it's just going to make things worse.



Portside Athletics Blog
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [NAB777] [ In reply to ]
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NAB777 wrote:
Bok wrote:

I spoke to many male and female athletes from the past and present who had been in contact with Brett throughout their career.
Alex


You didn't speak to the right ones.

I know one girl personally who told me a story about the guy. Not the 14 year old he molested, another girl that he coached, who left the sport when she was at the top of her game & ready to cash in. He didn't touch her, but if she was my daughter, I'd have punched his lights out.

I wouldn't spend a cent on any of the companies involved with TBB.
Nor would I spend a cent on any companies involved with Jordan Rapp.

I can absolutely see the merit in your point on TBB, but I disagree about Jordan. Jordan didn't endorse Sutton, didn't say he's ok to be coaching women, he merely said he's giving him the benefit of the doubt about his rehabilitation. Simple human kindness, even if sometimes it's naive (as we're finding out more in regards to Suttons role with triathlon juniors to this day), is almost never something to criticize. I applaud Jordan for being willing to find out for himself what kind of person Sutton is. I hope his willingness to admit he has talked to Sutton won't cost him too many fans/friends. Even if in the end he learns his faith was misplaced, I hope it won't spoil in him the willingness to trust people despite prior mistakes. Because people make mistakes, some worse than others. You have an insight Jordan couldn't have possibly had when he began talking to Sutton, and are judging him based on that fact.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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Jordan has endorsed Sutton and has not been back to post on here since more information about Sutton and his involvement with minors has been discovered. As it stands I view him exactly the same way I do TBB. And it's not good.

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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AlwaysCurious wrote:
ZingUK wrote:
BDoughtie wrote:


It's not inherently physical proximity to children that's a problem--it's having a position of power over children that's a big problem. An adult with power over a child can coerce the child into doing something that otherwise would take brute force. A couple of examples of powerful positions:


  • A school teacher has power over children, because he can adversely affect their grades.
  • A police officer has power over children, because he can threaten them with arrest.
  • A head coach has power over children, because he can threaten their place on a team.
Someone who has incidental proximity to children in a public place has no inherent power over them, and very little opportunity to harm them. A few examples:

  • A cashier will interact with children, but has no power over them, and the interaction is in a public place.
  • An architect might interact with clients' children (who accompany their parents to a meeting), but has no power over them. Plus their parents are present.
See the difference? One set of situations puts the children in a position of vulnerability; their well-being relies on trusting the adult. The second set does not increase their vulnerability; they're either in a public place, or they are accompanied by their parents.

Ok this is well reasoned argument Brooks and I think our perspective is not sure far apart but we just view it through different social lenses. First of all we (and I think everyone else on this thread agrees two things, 1. What Sutton did was wrong and he should be punished and 2. He should not work directly with kid. The part we are disagreeing on is whether he can work in a hands of capacity.

The reason I make the social lens comments is this. In the US you incarcerate more people than any othe palce on earth, prison time is focussed on punishment, sentences are higher and the stagma when people get out of prison they struggle so often reoffend giving you a far higher recedivism rate than Europe http://releasedandrestored.org/statistics.html (I appreciate this is an old study but the figures still hold braodly true).

In Eurpope we incarcerate about 10% of people per population and the focus is very much in rehabilitation with a vast majority of ex offenders going into programmes when they get out to help the reintegrate into society so our recedivism rates are much lower.

Now neither system is perfect and there are outliers who in any legal framework. Two current instances that come to mind is what you are doing in the States with Bradley Manning in inhuman and in Norway we havea man who gunned down 77 mostly teenage kids and will spend a maximum of 20 years in jail before walking free, just as ludicrous the other way. Sutton is not an outlier though, he falls squarely into the system, he served his punishment and is moving on.

Now through your social lens you think there is a high likelihood he will reoffend and the punishment should be harsher because that is your social system. Through a European lens we think he deserves a chance and rehabilitation after he has served and his and would actually view his hands off coaching as helping people from the same age group as the girl he offended with so that is actually part of his payback. Again so long as it is not directly hands on.

Another thing we tend to do in Europe is celebrate when people have been reintegrated successfully and applaude them when the help society. You do that in the States as well but to much lesser extent. Johny Cash is an excellent example though, there is a man who was a habitual petty offender befor finally murdering someone. Now if any of you who are taking great glee in ripping Sutton apart on this thread has a Johnny Cash CD in your collection I will call you out as a complete hypocrite. And please don't tell me sleeping with a 14 year old girl is worse than murder. By owning a JC CD you are not only supporting the man but financially contributing directly to him (at least when he was alive) so yes if you do own any of his CD's (I do BTW) then I say again you are a complete hypocrite.

There was a rediculous post put up by some woman earlier claiming to be a phycho analist of some of some sort who spoke a lot of horse shit about 14 year olds not being emotionally mature enogh to make decisions. Can I ask her if at 16 an emotional maturity switch suddenly gets turned on? What about the fact the girls are more emotionally mature than boys as teenagers should we have different ages of consent for things like sex, smoking and alcohol? I lived in Asian for many years and my wife is Chinese, believe me Asian kids are a damn site smarter and more emotionally mature than either European or American kids on the whole so should we have differing ages for each country? Again not a justification but how do we know anything about this girls maturity? We do know the Sutton was extremely immature at the time to do what he did, that I'll agree with.

I have know 14 years olds incredibly mature beyond their years and I know some 50 year olds I wouldn't trust to buy me an ice cream. This is in no way a justification of what Sutton did, he broke the law in his country and was punished for it. In many other countries it would not have been illegal but certainly morally very wrong. The person who knows this most is Sutton himself.

I will finish with these points:

1. Sutton is a bright guy and has shown absolutely no signs of recedivism in any way shape or form over the last 25 years and he knows the eyes of the world are on him. On the contrary he tries his best to be a valuable member of society in the best way he can. If there is one person aware of the implication of a repeat offence it's Sutton

2. The people who employ and work with Sutton are also very smart, do you not think they know the situation and made a conscious reason business decision to work with him after very thorough discussions?

3. The people on this site who actually know Sutton have all spoken out in defence of him and to be frank some of the comments towards Jordan, Brandon and Jonnyo are mind numbingly stupid from people who hide behind psuedonyms (not you Brooks I know). None of the rest of us know the man so how can we judge his intentions? Do we just assume that when someone has done wrong they are stupid enough to continue doing wrong especially with such a public profile? Should I hate Johnny Cash and brand him a murderer first then a musician second because I don't know him?
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
Jordan has endorsed Sutton and has not been back to post on here since more information about Sutton and his involvement with minors has been discovered. As it stands I view him exactly the same way I do TBB. And it's not good.

He said if he learned more that was inappropriate he would certainly discontinue his relationship with Sutton. As far as I can tell (in my limited ability to do so via the search) Jordan hasn't posted on the board since that post, so perhaps he's away?
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
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Mad Jee wrote:
So who are you and what's your relationship to Sutton? ST is too smart of a place and you'll get outed eventually, so why don't you just tell us?

You've resorted to insulting people, you're not helping Sutton's case here. This is like the time Michael Weiss' father-in-law came on here try to defend Weiss, you're going to get figured out and it's just going to make things worse.

His name is Bevan Colless. His name was on the file he uploaded of the bike split he thinks we all should be so impressed with.

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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pick6 wrote:
we don't know how many victims Sutton has had. just like with saville, no one knew til later. could be others who have never come forward. no way to say one way or the other. Not uncommon for ppl not to come forward especially when no prosecution possible after tone passes

Stupid point, Sutton is a very publis figure and people would come forward for the money if nothing else. I can easily say I don't know how many victims you have had because none have come forward.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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No "wow" was in reference to your dick posts. Care to make some more or have you discovered my opinion of Sutton can shortened to:

KF

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