Correct. If you order RED 2012, you should make sure to specify that because the front derailleur shifting requires the YAW compatible bar end shifter.

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Ben Waite | Zipp Senior Design Engineer | The Power of Bicycles: Please contribute to World Bicycle Relief | Zipp | SRAM | Quarq |

So the r2c shifter has to be yaw compatible?

If I get the 2012 sram red, does that mean the front derailler is the yaw model?

For perfect FD shifting, yes, the R2C needs to be yaw compatible. However, it is doable with old ones: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...g=yaw%20r2c;#4213377

Yes, Red 2012 will have the yaw FD.

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________________________________________________________
Ben Waite | Zipp Senior Design Engineer | The Power of Bicycles: Please contribute to World Bicycle Relief | Zipp | SRAM | Quarq |

Hmmm the new shifters dont come out till next month.. What will be the difference? One click instead of 3 click or something?

Yes, there will be an un-needed trim shift on the older shifters.

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________________________________________________________
Ben Waite | Zipp Senior Design Engineer | The Power of Bicycles: Please contribute to World Bicycle Relief | Zipp | SRAM | Quarq |

What does a trim shift mean? In a road bike, I have to hold down the shifter until the derailler pushes the chain to the right.. Why would I have to click 3 times on a r2c?

the one thing that i think is going to mess some folks up about this group is that i don't think it's very compatible with non-red-2012 chainrings, which means cranksets in most cases. i've had this group aboard for awhile, messing around with different crank/cr combos, and it seems to really want yaw chainrings. this is going to make it hard to either down or cross spec this group, at least as regards chainrings.

i really like the group a lot. except, i'm underwhelmed by the brake calipers. i actually liked my force calipers better. i think it's back to the drawing board on these. but everything else is first rate.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

What shifters do you use with the group? I still don't understand why it takes 3 clicks or 2 clicks to shift the FD?...

Do normal fd's require a few clicks to shift?

I use the new Red with Zipp R2C shifters and they work flawlessly.

i have the road group. haven't tried the tri gp yet, so, don't know how the new bar end shifters work. going to be writing up the whole group pretty soon. waiting for a new 110mm bolt pattern crank, and a couple of new cassettes, before i do. this gp is supposed to work with a 50x34 and a 11-32, and if it does, wowee, that's very impressive. waiting for these to show up.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

any idea where I can order the wi fli rear dee on line?

I've had issues with the stiffness on the braze on FD using a bigger chain ring (54/42) and had to go back to a stiffer steel version (SRAM force).

@125mph, trim is the middle position of the front shifter that is meant to be used on a dual chainring. It is not a full shift, just a slight movement of the FD that allows you to crosschain without rubbing the chain on the FD. It's standard on modern road levers but I've never seen it on TT shifters. I have no experience with the r2c shifters so if someone else says they offer trim, I'd take their word.


I've been using the 2012 Red FD and crank with the lower end 500 TT shifters. There is not a trim position on the front shifter, though the FD does yaw as you throw the shifter through its range. No issues.

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Dan, I completely agree about the brakes. They certainly don't feel any stronger than the old Red calipers. And I really dislike how you have to adjust them when you put them on. I ended having to use a small, thin wrench to center the brakes.

And, for all the hype over the yaw derailleur, it really doesn't seem to work better than the old steel cage force derailleur for me. But I have my bikes pretty dialed in.

Thanks for the explanation.. make sense now!!

"it really doesn't seem to work better than the old steel cage force derailleur for me"

the force derailleur shifts fine. but it has trim adjustment while only on one chainring. you either need to be able to adjust the trim while both in the small and large chainrings, or you need a trimless derailleur. while i don't know, i suspect it's a patent thing. the engineers at SRAM are too good. they certainly could've given the old red, force, rival FDs while in either CR, but they didn't. so, i think it was a patent issue. therefore, they cleverly engineered around it. this was, in my view, the primary fault with SRAM, the lack of FD trim. and it still is downstream of new red. this wasn't an issue in tri, because you had infinite trim with the bar end shifters. but it was an exposed flaw in road. on paper, the idea behind new red makes a lot of sense. and it seems to work well in practice as well, however i'm not done testing yet.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Unless I'm severely cross chaining, I never use trim adjustment. Probably why I don't notice a difference.