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Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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rbuike wrote:
dgunthert wrote:
rbuike wrote:

+1 Challenge Penticton will be a great race but it will never be Ironman Canada. Challenge Penticton will be like a Massachusetts Marathon or a Rev3 Kona. Everything that makes it special has been lost.

FTFY


No you didn't

Yes, I know you meant it seriously. I was merely trying to point out to others that it's absurd. The fact that it's losing the name "Ironman" means nothing except for the brand conscious. It's certainly not what made this race special to people who rush to sign up it over venues like Louisville and The Woodlands. The fact that it's losing WTC means nothing at all. WTC had never run this race until this year. They simply let Graham organize and put it on while allowing him to use the name "Ironman". The race was losing Graham whether the it continued as Ironman Canada or not. Contrary to being a good thing, WTC taking direct control over the race did not bode well for the experience. There's plenty of evidence from the races that WTC has taken direct control over in the past. IMLP is a good example. Every year it seems there are a few more corners cut since WTC took over. Even more than the athlete's experience, the support for the volunteers is far inferior to the days when Graham ran that race. My parents would know. They've volunteered every year since 2005 and have been captains since 2006.

So are you really claiming that the name and the Kona slots are the only things that made Ironman Canada special?
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Re: IMC rumor [bobloblaw] [ In reply to ]
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bobloblaw wrote:

And none will have this iconic and classic course. I think a lot of people don't realize that nothing is really changing from the average athlete's perspective. Aside from slightly lower entry fees and wave starts, 2013 will be exactly the same race. The course is not changing, the town is not changing, and I'm willing to bet most of the great volunteers (who are really the core of the race) will not change either.


Perhaps it would be soothing (or not) to point out to those who are disturbed by the name change that for the first three years, during which the very legacy they value was in its formative phase, the race was't called Ironman anything, it was the "Canadian International Ultra Triathlon". I have as much nostalgia for the Ironman Canada moniker as the next person - all my schwag has those words on it, but it's really about the town, the people, the course and the surroundings, not the label. In a similar vein, Subaru is a great sponsor, but so was Timex, and before them so were the beer companies. The race transcends its name.
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Re: IMC rumor [dgunthert] [ In reply to ]
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It is the history of that race and what it meant to Ironman before Ironman became the corporate brand that everyone loves/hates.

Ironman Canada was there from the start, in fact you might say it had a huge role in making ironman (the distance) what it is today because it was more accessible to the masses on continental North Americans before the sport exploded long before it became a brand exploited by the WTC.

Regardless of race experience Ironman will continue to be the pinnacle of the sport thanks to the brand and to Kona. Ironman the brand is to the sport what Boston is to marathons, what the Yankees are to baseball.

Losing any of those iconic institutions would have a long lasting impact on the sport as will the loss of Ironman Canada.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Rodney, I respect your position on this. History is important. Legacy is important. This race has both under the Ironman brand. 30 years worth after tomorrow

I will say after spending some time earlier today with Felix and city staff at the Siccamous (spell?) I honestly could not be more excited for the community. there is a real empowered feeling I got from the members of council and a few of the resident staff that were there. If I was to place my finger on what I took back was, for the last few years they felt taken advantage of by WTC and without voice. They were also quite clear to distance Graham Fraser from that. Their respect for him was made very clear. And, from what I have read in the press leading into this week, Graham didn't exactly walk away. Sounds more forced away by WTC. What I sense going forward with the Challenge Family (BTW: that is their brand, "family") partnership in place is; as Felix said to me in our discussion, "they own the decisions. They keep the money. It is not a fly in, put on a production, fly out with the cash" arrangement. Penticton therefore feels they now have control over a key annual tourist venture. They now have voice. Of course with that is HUGE responsibility!

I think it is important to look to Roth as to what is possible. Roth used to be the Ironman European Championships before they went it alone. Look at the success of that race as a measuring stick. In 10 years it has created its own history, its own legacy. That won't happen next year for Penticton and I anticipate a reduction in participation in the first year, but I am excited for 'what's possible!'

Yes I will say in does sadden me that the brand of IMC is gone and that is final. IMC can only be this race. I get the history, the legacy, and I respect that as an athlete. I duly respect that this is a community decision for the betterment of their community, and I personally feel that takes greater importance. I hope it works for them because this community deserves that. It really is one of the best parts of Canada.

For now it is feet up and relax. I get to do the 30th, and final, Ironman Canada tomorrow!

BIB: 1124.

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Rhys....just wanted to say good luck at IMC. Enjoy the day.
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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What about this new ironman Canada that was announced with a flyer under the hotel door
Says they are 'changing course'. And offering a link to active.com for a preferred registration list available till aug 30.
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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hey Dev,

thanks mate! I am pretty excited! I freaking love it here and everything it provides.

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [ShawnF] [ In reply to ]
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In the BC Lower Mainland the rumour mill since early spring, was that IMC was moving to Whistler.....but Kelowna also came up.....no smoke without fire ?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
If you run long enough....something is bound to happen
Last edited by: TriTrev: Aug 25, 12 19:01
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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Best wishes to everyone tomorrow who is racing for an incredible day. Environment Canada is forecasting a high tomorrow of 31 (close to 88 degrees for our American friends) Stay hydrated and stay fast ! Have a great race.!
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting email I just got:

"IRONMAN Volunteers and Athletes,

IRONMAN is saddened to confirm that Penticton, Canada, has chosen to not move forward as the host for the 2013 edition of IRONMAN® Canada. We hoped that IRONMAN Canada would continue in the City of Penticton, which has served as the host of the race for 30 years, and that the relationship between IRONMAN and the city would continue indefinitely.

As IRONMAN continues to finalize details, we would like to offer the following opportunity for 2012 IRONMAN Canada volunteers, as well as all athletes who have previously raced IRONMAN Canada:

IRONMAN is aggressively pursuing multiple options, as our goal is to have IRONMAN Canada in 2013. By clicking here, volunteers and athletes will be put on a preferred registration list for the new IRONMAN Canada, tentatively slated for late August/early September 2013. Please note: you must complete the entire process and click “submit” to confirm your place on the registration list. Access to this link is available for a limited period of time, between Aug. 25 at noon PT and Aug. 30 at midnight PT. The preferred list will give volunteers and athletes one week (in advance of general proposed registration) to sign up for the new IRONMAN Canada event. Additional race and registration details will be announced during the week of the 2012 IRONMAN World Championship, which takes place on Oct. 13.

IRONMAN is pursuing multiple unique venue options for the new IRONMAN Canada race and is excited to build upon the long-standing tradition of IRONMAN Canada as one of the most iconic races in the global IRONMAN Series. The new race, tentatively scheduled for late August/early September 2013, will feature double the amount of age group slots for the IRONMAN World Championship, an increase from 50 to 100 slots, as well as an increase in KPR points and prize money for professional athletes.

As an additional race option, general entry for IRONMAN Mont-Tremblant, IRONMAN Coeur d’Alene, and Memorial Hermann IRONMAN Texas is also still available. Visit www.ironman.com to register.

Thank you for your continued support of IRONMAN, and we hope to see you at another IRONMAN race soon! If you have any questions, please contact Canada@ironman.com.

-- The IRONMAN team"

****Note the increase in Kona slots, wow, right back to the original 100 IMC used to offer.****

I bet: Whistler, with Calgary as a close 2nd, and IMMT as a 3rd option.

Oh and back to tomorrow's race - I hope everyone has a FANTASTIC day out there! Enjoy your day and your accomplishments.

AP

------------------------
"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: IMC rumor [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
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There's the link to Active.com in the email...

AP

------------------------
"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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After some thought, I've decided to sign up for Challenge Penticton 2013, my first iron distance tri. I had planned on signing up for IMC 2013, but was surprised by the change, so I had to take some time to think about it.

My reasons for signing up are: after racing Olys and Halfs for four years, I'm ready and want to do a full distance tri next year; the course and Penticton are more important to me than the organizer or brand; I'm hearing good things about Challenge and believe they'll run a good event; I don't have any attachment to Ironman/WTC, and in some respects dislike the brand.

The only downside is that there won't be Kona slots available, but for a first iron distance tri, it may be a blessing in disguise not to push myself that hard. If I have a good race next year and my wife hasn't divorced me after all the training, maybe I will sign up for an IM some other time and try to KQ.

None of this will change my attitude to volunteering tomorrow. I realize I don't need to volunteer to ensure registration. I rode the bike course today, and I'll be registering Monday, so I'm here anyway and want to help. I'll be wetsuit stripping. Should be interesting!

Good luck, everyone who's racing tomorrow.

Graham Barron Design: Custom west coast house design http://www.grahambarron.com/
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Re: IMC rumor [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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There was an earlier version of this email that I got (I got your version about 30 minutes later). The relevant difference is that they were going to offer preferred access to IM AZ, WI, and FL... but they removed that paragraph in the second email. Bummer.

IRONMAN Athletes,

IRONMAN is saddened to confirm that Penticton, Canada, has chosen to not move forward as the host for the 2013 edition of IRONMAN® Canada. We hoped that IRONMAN Canada would continue in the City of Penticton, which has served as the host of the race for 30 years, and that the relationship between IRONMAN and the city would continue indefinitely.

As IRONMAN continues to finalize details, we would like to offer the following opportunity for all athletes racing this weekend’s IRONMAN Canada:

IRONMAN is aggressively pursuing multiple options, as our goal is to have IRONMAN Canada in 2013. By clicking here, volunteers and athletes will be put on a preferred registration list for the new IRONMAN Canada, tentatively slated for late August/early September 2013. Please note: you must complete the entire process and click “submit” to confirm your place on the registration list. Access to this link is available for a limited period of time, between Aug. 25, 2012 at noon PT and Aug. 30 at midnight PT. The preferred list will give volunteers and athletes one week (in advance of general proposed registration) to sign up for the new IRONMAN Canada event. Additional race and registration details will be announced during the week of the 2012 IRONMAN World Championship, which takes place on Oct. 13.

IRONMAN is pursuing multiple unique venue options for the new IRONMAN Canada race and is excited to build upon the long-standing tradition of IRONMAN Canada as one of the most iconic races in the global IRONMAN Series. The new race, tentatively scheduled for late August/early September 2013, will feature double the amount of age group slots for the IRONMAN World Championship, an increase from 50 to 100 slots, as well as an increase in KPR points and prize money for professional athletes.

To ensure athletes have multiple race options to accomplish their IRONMAN goals, 2012 IRONMAN Canada athletes will be granted preferred access into 2013 IRONMAN Wisconsin, 2013 IRONMAN Arizona and 2013 IRONMAN Florida. Athletes will automatically be included on preferred lists for all three races and will be sent additional passwords and links 48 hours before each of these events open for registration. These races generally sell-out in less than 24 hours.

General entry for IRONMAN Mont-Tremblant, IRONMAN Coeur d’Alene, and Memorial Hermann IRONMAN Texas is also still available. Visit www.ironman.com to register.

Thank you for your continued support of IRONMAN, and we hope to see you at another IRONMAN race soon! If you have any questions, please contact Canada@ironman.com.

-- The IRONMAN team
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Re: IMC rumor [iamlindoro] [ In reply to ]
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Check the intro to your emails - One email was to current (2012) participants, one was to former participants
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Re: IMC rumor [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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"I bet: Whistler, with Calgary as a close 2nd, and IMMT as a 3rd option. "

Are you suggesting they would possible simply rebrand IMMT as IMC and we won't notice? .

Also kind of interesting that three of their five American/Canadian races that have opened for next year are still open for general entry and the other two (LP and LT) still have foundation slots. Too many races? Or are numbers finally dropping?
Last edited by: sinkinswimmer: Aug 26, 12 9:59
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Re: IMC rumor [sinkinswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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I think it has become an over supply and under demand. At some point there is a tipping point and I think we are there. Also just because certain races sell out does not mean that you should put on more races.

We will see how things go because I think Challenge Penticton will see more participant than the new IMC will every year even if they offer more at the new IMC.
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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
I think it has become an over supply and under demand. At some point there is a tipping point and I think we are there. Also just because certain races sell out does not mean that you should put on more races.

We will see how things go because I think Challenge Penticton will see more participant than the new IMC will every year even if they offer more at the new IMC.

I think you're overestimating Penticton and underestimating having Ironman in the name. Challenge Penticton will not outsell the new IMC unless they allow 5000 registrations like Roth - which I don't think is possible in Penticton due to a lack of accommodations. I know there's legacy and history at Penticton but most participants don't give a shit about that.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: IMC rumor [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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Many will agree with me and many will agree with you so we will see how it plays out. I think you are underestimating the power of 30 years of history vs some undisclosed new location. Whistler would be a fail as far as I am concerned as I have raced up there before and raced in Penticton. Penticton is a far better race site.

I think you are starting to see the power or Ironman and racing not selling out. Ironman is not the name it used to be.
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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
Many will agree with me and many will agree with you so we will see how it plays out. I think you are underestimating the power of 30 years of history vs some undisclosed new location. Whistler would be a fail as far as I am concerned as I have raced up there before and raced in Penticton. Penticton is a far better race site.

I think you are starting to see the power or Ironman and racing not selling out. Ironman is not the name it used to be.

Only here on Slowtwitch. Also on Slowtwitch everyone wants Lance hung. It is amazing that in my day to day life, most people that I have interacted with at work and in my community knowing that I am an endurance athlete have asked about Lance and pretty well everyone thinks it is a witch hunt. Just reporting back about the general population, not what "informed guys on ST think".

Likewise, the general population at work has no clue about Penticton but they know about Ironman. Lots of these first timers would rather sign up for an "official Ironman event". Call them Mdot lemmings, but they have no clue what Challenge is.

Last week we had this example at Mont Tremblant. It sold out. Massive success. The organizers of the Esprit in Montreal and Canadian in Ottawa have put on around 30 edits of their Iron distance races between them and barely gotten over 100 people in that time. Now granted that Penticton has 30 years of history of being "THE IRONMAN" in Canada, but for the new athlete (and each Mdot event usually has 1000), they have no clue of Penticton's history.

Personally I want both events to sell out in time. I don't need them to sell out instantly, I'd like to see both sell out by next April or so....that way organizers get their revenue and athletes have open choices that don't need to be made 1 year out...everyone wins. Instant sellouts are really bad for athletes.
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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:


I think you are starting to see the power or Ironman and racing not selling out. Ironman is not the name it used to be.


I'm not buying it.

IMAZ sold out in 9 minutes. IMFL sold out in 20 minutes. Races that normally sell out quickly still sell out quickly. Races that take awhile to sell (like CdA, Lou, TX) still take some time to sell out. They shitcanned IMSG for good reason. The AUS races sell out in minutes. Euro races sell out in minutes. So on and so forth.

I think everyone is putting too much stock into the IMNY debacle. That was a logistical nightmare from the get go. WTC definitely screwed the pooch on that one. They got a little full of themselves with that race for sure and it bit them in the ass in a big way. It sold out like it did for 2012 because people weren't aware of the complicated logistics at the time. If you need a 7 page document to explain how people get to transition and the race start then it's way too complicated. The price was also a factor but I think the logistics was a far bigger factor in the lack of repeat or first time customers. I think people can stomach the price because everything is going to be more expensive in NY. Nobody wants to wake up at 3am to catch seventeen ferries or shuttles or whatever before you can start the damn race. WTC asked way too much of their customers at IMNY and the customers said "Bite me!" That just hasn't been the case at other races.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Last edited by: GMAN19030: Aug 26, 12 14:00
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Re: IMC rumor [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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x2

How many people have heard about an Iron distance race in Kalmar, Sweden before it became Ironman Sweden? I know I didn't. I'm going to do it next year because WTC had put on a map for me to consider as one of the races that I want to do in Europe. For the record, I've also done a non-WTC iron distance race.

I know Canadians love Penticton, but the rest of the world don't care. Are future Ironmans going to travel from the U.S, in large amount, for a race called Challenge Penticton? I don't think so. They will, however, do it for a race call Ironman Canada ... no matter where it is.

GMAN19030 wrote:
BMANX wrote:
I think it has become an over supply and under demand. At some point there is a tipping point and I think we are there. Also just because certain races sell out does not mean that you should put on more races.

We will see how things go because I think Challenge Penticton will see more participant than the new IMC will every year even if they offer more at the new IMC.


I think you're overestimating Penticton and underestimating having Ironman in the name. Challenge Penticton will not outsell the new IMC unless they allow 5000 registrations like Roth - which I don't think is possible in Penticton due to a lack of accommodations. I know there's legacy and history at Penticton but most participants don't give a shit about that.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
BMANX wrote:
I think you are starting to see the power or Ironman and racing not selling out. Ironman is not the name it used to be.


Only here on Slowtwitch. Also on Slowtwitch everyone wants Lance hung. It is amazing that in my day to day life, most people that I have interacted with at work and in my community knowing that I am an endurance athlete have asked about Lance and pretty well everyone thinks it is a witch hunt. Just reporting back about the general population, not what "informed guys on ST think".

Likewise, the general population at work has no clue about Penticton but they know about Ironman. Lots of these first timers would rather sign up for an "official Ironman event". Call them Mdot lemmings, but they have no clue what Challenge is.


Agree, within the US at least - for first-timer iron-distance racers, Ironman branded events are like those mosquito lights to mosquitos - people will flock to them (and there's nothing wrong about that, despite what folks here might argue).

The challenge (no pun intended) is that it's easy for us here to argue the difference between the different race brands - but outside of this very very very small circle - nobody knows about Challenge, Rev3 or Lifetime. Not ma and pa kettle that watch by the sidelines each year from in front of thier farm. All they know is the 'Ironman' name, they likely don't even know what the distance are. They know a bunch of cyclists or runners go bumbling by each year, they cheer and write 'Go Ironman!' on the sidewalk in chalk, potentially throw a few tacs out, and that's it. All the local/legacy stuff/politics honestly only matters to locals, and a extremely small sliver of folks here on ST. If you polled 100 follks crossing the finish line tonight at IMC, I'm guessing 90-95% of them would say they were overall happy with how the event went today.

From a accomadations standpoint - Penticton simply can't hold 5,000 athletes + family. Anybody who says that hasn't been there. It doesn't matter what brand we're talking about. They can barely hold the athletes today for IMC, at half those numbers - and that only because the concentration of local athletes driving in the area helps tremdendously. You're likely pretty close to maximizing the 'available local athletes' bucket out, so the difference between 2.5K and 5.0K will have to be out of towners. Try finding a hotel within an hour or two for that race week today - no luck except for a small handful of T-60 day cancellations (mostly through word of mouth).

I'm looking forward to both races succeding - but there has to be a dose of realism in there.


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
Last edited by: dcrainmaker: Aug 26, 12 14:25
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you think IMMT has not sold out yet?

.

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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Last week we had this example at Mont Tremblant. It sold out. Massive success. The organizers of the Esprit in Montreal and Canadian in Ottawa have put on around 30 edits of their Iron distance races between them and barely gotten over 100 people in that time. Now granted that Penticton has 30 years of history of being "THE IRONMAN" in Canada, but for the new athlete (and each Mdot event usually has 1000), they have no clue of Penticton's history.

You may be right. I'd be curious about the actual numbers though. How many of the participants for IMMT and Tahoe are previous IM finishers who are just jumping on the challenge and novelty of a brand new location? For that matter, how many are competing in their first IM but have been around triathlons for a few years? Do those two races, for this year, have the same number of "one and done' folks that the other races typically have? Those first two categories of participants are the ones that are more likely to know the history of IMC and/or want to support CP just to see WTC get some competition.

I'm definitely one of those. I had never really given IMC much thought before. I did IMLP to check my "do a challenging IM course" box. The IM experience wasn't enough to bring me to that particular location over another. By nearly all accounts, the Challenge races are fantastic, so it would be a very different, and possibly superior, experience to an IM race. For that reason and because I'd very much like to see another strong competitor to WTC, I'm seriously considering CP. One thing is pretty certain: my next 140.6 will be a Rev3, Challenge, or even HITS race.

Random thought: I think the biggest disservice that the RD's looking to compete with WTC ever did to themselves was not come up with a consistent name for the distance that everyone could use. All one did by using the name "Iron distance" was broadcast the fact that one was not an Ironman race. Rev3 is understandably and unfortunately doing the same thing with its Full Rev and Half Rev terminology.
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Re: IMC rumor [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Dave,

IM Tremblant does not just fill out with athletes within 3-4 hours of driving distance. There just are not enough. Last year it took several weeks. There were International athletes from 47 countries. It takes time for all those guys to make plans, book summer vacation and book flights. It will sell out in time as it did last year. I'm not exactly sure where you are going with constantly pointing out that it is not sold out (not like I care, it's not like I have shares in the race ownership). But it DID eventually sell out because it was a WTC series race even though it was a first year event.

Penticton is not a first year event. It is 31 years old next year. It can sell out with a Challenge logo, but if IMC had never existed till now and some one came up with the idea of doing a full distance race there, it would not sell out. As such, WTC can drop an Mdot series race in Whistler or Calgary and have a very good chance of selling out, only because athletes trust that the company can put on a top notch race for 2000 athletes. For the 1000 first timers per race, they will generaly go do an Mdot race in Whistler or Calgary over a Challenge race in Penticton. It is imporant to them to have the Mdot logo. Many of you may not like that, but this is reality.

Frankly if Challenge chose to put on a new race in Mont Tremblant, I'd have sat it out for a year, and watched how things shook out. But wtih WTC putting it on, I had solid confidence. I am more than willing to roll the dice with $80-$150 for a local olympic or half Ironman.

For an Ironman, I have 1 shot in a year. I don't mind dropping $500-$800 on entry fees, but I want confidence that I will be taken care of and the little details will be addressed well. For that, I have confidence (in general) that WTC will do a good job in a totally new venue. In the case of Penticton I am pretty sure that Challenge will do an awesome job because they are using the same volunteers, but I'm a bit more in the know about how the tri industry works than your average 1st time participant.

Dev
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