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Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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dude, it was in pink. relax.

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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IMC vrs Challenge Penticton? While I have an emotional attachment to IM and IMC I came to the conclusion that it is about the course (volunteers and community) versus the brand. That said, any 'brand' improvements are always welcomed. It just so happens (legalities aside) to be Challenges opportunity to showcase its brands. Thus, I'll be definitely signing up for C-P!

Kona is always a long shot for most that still drives the competitor. I recommend the Kona lottery and should you be lucky to be chosen then find a IM 70.3 to validate your draw.

If I were WTC I would be looking to quickly established a 70.3 in BC- Oliver? Osoyoos? It would be a step to show commitment to Western Canada. IMO, the Oliver Half is an unbelievable half.

Finally, I find it odd that Rappstar hasn't responded to this thread! I can only imagine that he has some comments to add but for some reason he is being quiet.

ItsAGoodLifeIfYouTriIt
Last edited by: Mr X: Aug 24, 12 9:10
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Re: IMC rumor [Forsler] [ In reply to ]
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Forsler wrote:
This reply is to the thread and not Pentictonite in particular.

I am really torn in two directions on this.

From the business point of view, I believe (no inside knowledge, just have followed this story on ST over the years) Graham Fraser has done a great job of building up and running the north american continental IM's over the years and has been squeezed out by a hardball playing WTC. YOu have to suspect that the reason WTC delayed informing Penticton about this latest change was WTC's desire to not leave Penticton much time before this year's race to consider alternatives like Challenge to run the race. (that timing would have been important because of the number of people in town this week looking to sign up for next year.) Again, WTC hardball. From that point of view, I am happy to see Penticton giving WTC a taste of its own medicine by not just accepting WTC and instead going with Challenge.

Those are very astute observations......
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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LOL technically it was in red ;) Seriously though, have a great race this weekend!


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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General comments on the topic - even if WTC were to win the legal battle that appears to be going on behind the scenes here with the City of Penticton - how would it be possible with the animosity that will clearly be involved with both parties for WTC to put on a race next year in Penticton??
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Re: IMC rumor [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
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Zulu wrote:
General comments on the topic - even if WTC were to win the legal battle that appears to be going on behind the scenes here with the City of Penticton - how would it be possible with the animosity that will clearly be involved with both parties for WTC to put on a race next year in Penticton??

Another very astute observation.
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Re: IMC rumor [Forsler] [ In reply to ]
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Forsler wrote:
From the business point of view, I believe (no inside knowledge, just have followed this story on ST over the years) Graham Fraser has done a great job of building up and running the north american continental IM's over the years and has been squeezed out by a hardball playing WTC. YOu have to suspect that the reason WTC delayed informing Penticton about this latest change was WTC's desire to not leave Penticton much time before this year's race to consider alternatives like Challenge to run the race. (that timing would have been important because of the number of people in town this week looking to sign up for next year.) Again, WTC hardball. From that point of view, I am happy to see Penticton giving WTC a taste of its own medicine by not just accepting WTC and instead going with Challenge.

WTC definitely needed to get a taste of its own medicine by one of these towns that they have truthfully taken advantage of over the years. Hopefully, this can cause them to rethink their usual actions and play nicer with towns, which would ultimately benefit everyone (WTC, locals, racers etc.) more.
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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Pentictonite wrote:
Zulu wrote:
General comments on the topic - even if WTC were to win the legal battle that appears to be going on behind the scenes here with the City of Penticton - how would it be possible with the animosity that will clearly be involved with both parties for WTC to put on a race next year in Penticton??


Another very astute observation.
_____

Actually not so astute .... both parties want to make money ... if WTC prevails legally, Penticton won't be making money either or bringing in tourism dollars for its businesses. They would work it out like lots of businesses do. We'll see what happens.

Dave
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Re: IMC rumor [dcsxtri10] [ In reply to ]
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dcsxtri10 wrote:
Actually not so astute ....

It is to a degree. I think he was intimating that for WTC is could be a lost cause trying to win and that they won't persue it to that level. Rather than go for it and both parties suffer the consequence.

It sounds like WTC have to do three things. Force the guy with the licence to take back the Ironman rights that he forfeited to them. Force him to want to hold the event. And force Penticton to okay the licence back to the same guy despite the fact that they annulled when he said he had passed the race back to WTC.

That sounds like a whole bunch of US Corporation attempting to legally force a Canadian City and well respected member of the Penticton community to do something they don't want to do. Even if it was a 50/50 argument, which I don't think it is, I can't see any judge coming down on their side (complete guesswork on my part). My money is on Challenge.

With their email this morning (Do you want Challenge or WTC) WTC seem to be trying to overcome the 'We did it for the athletes' argument put forward by Penticton. Good luck with that!

I think WTC will fold on this and go about their business selling mattresses, scales and hitch plates.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
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Re: IMC rumor [Jaymz] [ In reply to ]
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Jaymz wrote:
dcsxtri10 wrote:
Actually not so astute ....


It is to a degree. I think he was intimating that for WTC is could be a lost cause trying to win and that they won't persue it to that level. Rather than go for it and both parties suffer the consequence.

It sounds like WTC have to do three things. Force the guy with the licence to take back the Ironman rights that he forfeited to them. Force him to want to hold the event. And force Penticton to okay the licence back to the same guy despite the fact that they annulled when he said he had passed the race back to WTC.

That sounds like a whole bunch of US Corporation attempting to legally force a Canadian City and well respected member of the Penticton community to do something they don't want to do. Even if it was a 50/50 argument, which I don't think it is, I can't see any judge coming down on their side (complete guesswork on my part). My money is on Challenge.

With their email this morning (Do you want Challenge or WTC) WTC seem to be trying to overcome the 'We did it for the athletes' argument put forward by Penticton. Good luck with that!

I think WTC will fold on this and go about their business selling mattresses, scales and hitch plates.
____

We don't know any of the legal details ..... but just supposing there wasn't a disclosure of a certain detail by a seller to WTC .... that seller might figure he would take it back since he had a problem otherwise .... I don't know ... just conjecture ;-)

Dave
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Re: IMC rumor [Jaymz] [ In reply to ]
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Jaymz wrote:
dcsxtri10 wrote:
Actually not so astute ....


It is to a degree. I think he was intimating that for WTC is could be a lost cause trying to win and that they won't persue it to that level. Rather than go for it and both parties suffer the consequence.

It sounds like WTC have to do three things. Force the guy with the licence to take back the Ironman rights that he forfeited to them. Force him to want to hold the event. And force Penticton to okay the licence back to the same guy despite the fact that they annulled when he said he had passed the race back to WTC.

That sounds like a whole bunch of US Corporation attempting to legally force a Canadian City and well respected member of the Penticton community to do something they don't want to do. Even if it was a 50/50 argument, which I don't think it is, I can't see any judge coming down on their side (complete guesswork on my part). My money is on Challenge.

With their email this morning (Do you want Challenge or WTC) WTC seem to be trying to overcome the 'We did it for the athletes' argument put forward by Penticton. Good luck with that!

I think WTC will fold on this and go about their business selling mattresses, scales and hitch plates.


Jaymz has a very solid understanding of this issue.

There is no agreement between WTC and the City of Penticton. When WTC “purchased” (again this is a term that Graham Fraser may or may not agree with) the license back from Graham there was no legal requirement for the City of Penticton to agree to a transfer of the agreement between the City and Graham Fraser to WTC. This point is not in dispute


The last minute legal maneuver that it appears WTC is pursuing is to “return” the license back to Graham and then argue that City and Graham have an agreement that they expect to be honored. Obviously this would require another agreement between Graham and WTC and one that I will not speculate on.

However Graham had already previously notified to the City that he had “lost” the license to WTC and that this would be his final year running IC. WTC did not dispute this point as obviously they were here in Penticton this week confirming that they had “purchased” the agreement from Graham (again “purchased” is a point that Graham may have a different view on) and of course WTC did finally at the last minute present a proposal for a new agreement.

It was only when the City of Penticton late Wednesday afternoon rejected the proposal and went with the Challenge Family instead that WTC is now asserting a potentially different position.

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Re: IMC rumor [Jaymz] [ In reply to ]
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Jaymz wrote:
dcsxtri10 wrote:
Actually not so astute ....


It is to a degree. I think he was intimating that for WTC is could be a lost cause trying to win and that they won't persue it to that level. Rather than go for it and both parties suffer the consequence.

It sounds like WTC have to do three things. Force the guy with the licence to take back the Ironman rights that he forfeited to them. Force him to want to hold the event. And force Penticton to okay the licence back to the same guy despite the fact that they annulled when he said he had passed the race back to WTC.

That sounds like a whole bunch of US Corporation attempting to legally force a Canadian City and well respected member of the Penticton community to do something they don't want to do. Even if it was a 50/50 argument, which I don't think it is, I can't see any judge coming down on their side (complete guesswork on my part). My money is on Challenge.

With their email this morning (Do you want Challenge or WTC) WTC seem to be trying to overcome the 'We did it for the athletes' argument put forward by Penticton. Good luck with that!

I think WTC will fold on this and go about their business selling mattresses, scales and hitch plates.

Got a link to that Email?

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: IMC rumor [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:

Got a link to that Email?

The Email:

Dear Mike,

Based on yesterday's events regarding the future of a triathlon race in Penticton, we wanted to send this email to you.

We care about this race and its 30-year history in Penticton. And, we care what you think.

This is your race and this is your opportunity to voice an opinion on what you'd like to see happen.

Please click this link below to share your opinion.

**Please note that there is urgency to this, and needs to be completed by noon today. Feel free to share this link.**


The Survey:


I. Subaru Ironman Canada Future

Your opinion on the future of a race in Penticton
*
1. Which event would you like to be held in Penticton in 2013 and beyond?
Which event would you like to be held in Penticton in 2013 and beyond? Challenge Penticton, operated by the Challenge Family
Subaru Ironman Canada, operated by Graham Fraser and team
*
2. Please share your thoughts about your answer above:
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Re: IMC rumor [Kamala] [ In reply to ]
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Kamala wrote:
h2ofun wrote:


Got a link to that Email?


The Email:

Dear Mike,

Based on yesterday's events regarding the future of a triathlon race in Penticton, we wanted to send this email to you.

We care about this race and its 30-year history in Penticton. And, we care what you think.

This is your race and this is your opportunity to voice an opinion on what you'd like to see happen.

Please click this link below to share your opinion.

**Please note that there is urgency to this, and needs to be completed by noon today. Feel free to share this link.**


The Survey:


I. Subaru Ironman Canada Future

Your opinion on the future of a race in Penticton
*
1. Which event would you like to be held in Penticton in 2013 and beyond?
Which event would you like to be held in Penticton in 2013 and beyond? Challenge Penticton, operated by the Challenge Family
Subaru Ironman Canada, operated by Graham Fraser and team
*
2. Please share your thoughts about your answer above:

I thought Fraser was done after 2012 with IMC?

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: IMC rumor [Old_Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)







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Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
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sharkGu wrote:
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)
_____

I agree completely ..... I would have signed up(again) for IMC next year .... but I won't be doing "challenge penticton" .... despite more pumps ;-)

Dave






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Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
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Give Challenge a try. You will be very surprised that there is life outside of the IM brand. I have done 3 IM, IMLP, IMFL and IM European Championship as well as Challenge Roth. They were all good but Roth was by far they best experience. Just a different vibe, a real triathlon and not a show but a huge party at the same time.
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Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
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sharkGu wrote:
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)






\

Man, try something different in life. Doing the same thing over and over again can get pretty boring. But, you are exactly the kind of person WTC wants. For some reason you think there is no triathlon outside of WTC.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
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sharkGu wrote:
If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.

So, regardless of location you will want to do the WTC Ironman because of the logo? So you can say to people 'I am doing Ironman'.

Even though the IMC course is stellar, the crowd fantastic and Challenge likely to be able to build on what is already there? You would choose whatever location M Dot went to?

How big is your M Dot tattoo? ;)

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
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Re: IMC rumor [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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That's actually what I said in my required comment to participate in the survey. Also, given the lack of water last year, I'm not as smitten with Fraser as others.
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Re: IMC rumor [RobAllen] [ In reply to ]
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RobAllen wrote:
Give Challenge a try. You will be very surprised that there is life outside of the IM brand. I have done 3 IM, IMLP, IMFL and IM European Championship as well as Challenge Roth. They were all good but Roth was by far they best experience. Just a different vibe, a real triathlon and not a show but a huge party at the same time.

You won't sway them all. Whether its about Kona, or otherwise, they are seemingly glued to the brand. So much so, that they may even get the corporate logo etched permanently in their skin. For those that won't do the race next year because it is not an M-dot, that's your decision. Good luck at Ironman Whistler, or wherever the race may take you. I for one am very excited about the new race. I did IMC in 2009, and happy that I did so. Had no interest in every doing it again, until now. As Rob stated, give it a shot. What have you got to lose?

"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon
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Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
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I bet you drive a Mercedes just so you can impress the neighbors too....am I right?

Next paycheck says you're drinking out of an M-dot coffee mug as you read this.

Ironman distance is an ironman no matter who puts it on or where its at. Let go of the hype.
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Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
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sharkGu wrote:
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)


+1 Challenge Penticton will be a great race but it will never be Ironman Canada. Challenge Penticton will be like a Massachusetts Marathon or a Rev3 Kona. Everything that makes it special has been lost.








Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
Last edited by: rbuike: Aug 24, 12 11:57
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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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I am not sure if anyone has posted something about this, but what happens to Subaru? Do they get to sponsor the Challenge Penticton or do they just walk away? Might they sponsor the next IMC city? Just curious. Perhaps they are just as confused as everyone else is.
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Re: IMC rumor [sharkGu] [ In reply to ]
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sharkGu wrote:
I'm going to be one of the few who will come on here and admit to the ST mafia that I find this news very, very disappointing. As someone who has done IMC twice and was getting ready to sign up for 2013, I will no longer be doing so. I have a friend who I've talked to this morning who feels exactly the same way. If there is a choice between doing Challenge Penticton and Ironman Canada (in a different location) next year I'll be much more likely to do the latter.


It may be cool to bash WTC and the IM brand but it's an iconic brand that's become synonymous with this race distance. The other problem is losing 'Canada' from the event. How would people feel if the Boston Marathon became the 'Struggle Massachusetts'?


There is a tendency to think that the grass is always greener and I suspect that's one of the reasons the City of Penticton has gone this route. But at the end of the day they've shot themselves in the foot, IMO. Cities and towns all over Canada will be tripping over themselves to become the new host town of 'Ironman Canada' and then Penticton will have to compete with that race. But at least there will be more pumps in transition :)

Well put.

Tom










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