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Re: IMC rumor [Writerguy] [ In reply to ]
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I was going to go hard on Sunday and go for a great time... Now I am thinking of 16:59 and be the last ironman in penticton!
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Re: IMC rumor [sgttriathlon] [ In reply to ]
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sgttriathlon wrote:
This is why Slowtwitch rules. I'm in Penticton and I head to Slowtwitch for info.

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yes but that doesn't mean you are getting the whole story..


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Re: IMC rumor [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
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rhayden wrote:
I was going to go hard on Sunday and go for a great time... Now I am thinking of 16:59 and be the last ironman in penticton!
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You are not the only one..a few people have mentioned this idea today.

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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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Pentictonite wrote:
Francois wrote:
Is there a remote chance for WTC to prevent Challenge from taken over and for the race to go on next year under the challenge label?


That would depend on what lawyer you ask and I am happy to discuss this further however based on the legal advice I am aware of, from my perspective the Challenge Penticton Race will occur and I suspect it will be a best ever.

There is a lot of excitement locally to put on a race that focuses more on the athletes and the overall race experience. It is also important that we not forget about this year’s race, and given that it is the 30th anniversary race I am hopeful that is also a great one for all involved.
==

I would suggest that if you are going to post here on ST and talk as if you are somehow in the "inner circle" of what is going on then you should no longer post anonymously..Full disclosure is the right way to go at the moment.

==
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Agree. Who are you "Pentictonite"?
I've lived in Penticton since 2006. My first IM was IMC 1990. My last one was IMC 2007. I grew tired of the "same old same old" and turned to bike racing as a nice change. I've seen a fair amount of negativity over the last 5 years and a general decline in enthusiasm. Maybe this was the fault of WTC, I'm not sure.
I can say I'm looking forward to the change. I'm also looking forward to hearing "You are an Ironman!" at the finish line for the last time (I grew REALLY tired of that.)
Not everyone likes change but I hope the people of this city will embrace it so I hope our councel does a good job convincing us (selling it to the locals) that it was the right decision.
Deeper pro fields and maybe bigger AG fields are a plus. The price could be cheaper if it's truly "for the athletes". Glad to hear its the same course though.
Anyways, Challenge puts on quality events so I'm sure they won't f-it up. Looking forward to being a part of it. I'm volunteering at the aid station at the bottom of Richter pass on Sunday, handing out bottles/food. Maybe I'll be there next year too.
Marty
Penticton.
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Re: IMC rumor [martman] [ In reply to ]
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martman wrote:
Agree. Who are you "Pentictonite"?
I've lived in Penticton since 2006. My first IM was IMC 1990. My last one was IMC 2007. I grew tired of the "same old same old" and turned to bike racing as a nice change. I've seen a fair amount of negativity over the last 5 years and a general decline in enthusiasm. Maybe this was the fault of WTC, I'm not sure.
I can say I'm looking forward to the change. I'm also looking forward to hearing "You are an Ironman!" at the finish line for the last time (I grew REALLY tired of that.)
Not everyone likes change but I hope the people of this city will embrace it so I hope our councel does a good job convincing us (selling it to the locals) that it was the right decision.
Deeper pro fields and maybe bigger AG fields are a plus. The price could be cheaper if it's truly "for the athletes". Glad to hear its the same course though.
Anyways, Challenge puts on quality events so I'm sure they won't f-it up. Looking forward to being a part of it. I'm volunteering at the aid station at the bottom of Richter pass on Sunday, handing out bottles/food. Maybe I'll be there next year too.
Marty
Penticton.

Challenge doesn't have its own phrase? "You have beaten the CHALLENGE?" You have met the CHALLENGE?" "Your IRON WILL has bested the CHALLENGE" <-- oooh, that one's a good one
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Re: IMC rumor [cowardlydragon] [ In reply to ]
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Oh god I hope not.
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Re: IMC rumor [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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If they can hand back to Fraser, then it becomes tricky... Given the WTC is all about money, Fraser should say... "Sure... I'll run the race for one more year... but I need a $5 Million consulting fee"



Outside of Fraser accepting the race back, the WTC is SOL. Now if the shoe was on the other foot... the WTC would not even hand Fraser a jar of Vasaline
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Re: IMC rumor [Maui5150] [ In reply to ]
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Maui5150 wrote:
If they can hand back to Fraser, then it becomes tricky... Given the WTC is all about money, Fraser should say... "Sure... I'll run the race for one more year... but I need a $5 Million consulting fee"



Outside of Fraser accepting the race back, the WTC is SOL. Now if the shoe was on the other foot... the WTC would not even hand Fraser a jar of Vasaline

I just can't imagine that's possible. I'd be pretty shocked if the 30-day window for curing the breach didn't start until Graham told the council he sold the race. Try this hypothetical: Graham never informs the council about the sale. WTC takes over the race and puts it on in 2012. Quality suffers a bit. WTC puts it on again in 2013. Race quality is down some more. Council turns to Graham with a "WTF?" Graham responds, "Oh yeah, I sold the race to WTC 2 years ago. But since you know now, I'll take it back from them. We're good, right?" The principle WTC is trying to claim is the same: the window for curing the breach doesn't start until the other party is aware or informed of the breach. The city is getting shafted if that interpretation is possible.

On a different note, I wonder if WTC can or will go after Graham over this. Graham knew or should have known about the transfer approval clause with the city. Seems clear he sold the race to WTC without getting that approval.
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Re: IMC rumor [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
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rhayden wrote:
I was going to go hard on Sunday and go for a great time... Now I am thinking of 16:59 and be the last ironman in penticton!

I was out doing my tuneup ride yesterday and had the same thought. I went so far as to think about the legalities of stepping off the course during the run to wait out the clock and where I'd do it. Starbucks on Main would be a good spot. Grab a latte and sit outside and cheer on others for awhile.

------------------------------
"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007
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Re: IMC rumor [Maui5150] [ In reply to ]
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So why did WTC take the race from Fraser in the first place this spring?

Is it not WTC fault for not reading the contract Fraser had with Penticton about transferring the race to a third party?
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Re: IMC rumor [martman] [ In reply to ]
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martman wrote:
I'm also looking forward to hearing "You are an Ironman!" at the finish line for the last time (I grew REALLY tired of that.)

x2
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Re: IMC rumor [Jackb] [ In reply to ]
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Oh. I agree with you.

I think the WTC was in some was shafting Fraser... From my reading of the original releases, his moving on was really not "his decision"

I also agree that the WTC took a serious misstep and either did not understand the contract, or did not think they were at risk (i.e. the only game in town)

I would also not be surprised if Fraser did not get Felix involved and basically placed a call and said the race could be swooped out if a better deal was made to the Council and there was an out in the contract.

Interesting point on the breech and when it occured. I could see both sides of the argument, so I could see in some ways were it is done, and all issues are moot, I also could see that there potentially could be a remedy of the breech would Fraser get the race back, but that I think is a long shot even if it happened, and if it did, I would have a little scheudenfreud having the WTC's feet held to the fire.

Now I don't know if the WTC really forced Fraser out or not, but if that is what happened, very ironic the end results
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Re: IMC rumor [FatteLatte] [ In reply to ]
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STEVE KING STEVE KING STEVE KING. He at least did research on most of the racers and would try to say something unique at the finish. I was so happy that I did not get the "You are an Ironman" when I crossed the line. I was happy to hear Steve talk about me and not just make me feel like a number.
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Re: IMC rumor [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
Pentictonite wrote:
Francois wrote:
Is there a remote chance for WTC to prevent Challenge from taken over and for the race to go on next year under the challenge label?


That would depend on what lawyer you ask and I am happy to discuss this further however based on the legal advice I am aware of, from my perspective the Challenge Penticton Race will occur and I suspect it will be a best ever.

There is a lot of excitement locally to put on a race that focuses more on the athletes and the overall race experience. It is also important that we not forget about this year’s race, and given that it is the 30th anniversary race I am hopeful that is also a great one for all involved.

==

I would suggest that if you are going to post here on ST and talk as if you are somehow in the "inner circle" of what is going on then you should no longer post anonymously..Full disclosure is the right way to go at the moment.

==


funny nick...you are the number one person on ST that like to make people think you are ''in the know'' but '' you cant say anything''.

People are free to post anonymously here. nothing wrong with this, we are just discussing.... nothing will come out of this. and the inner circle is pretty dam big in penticton....

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
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Re: IMC rumor [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
Pentictonite wrote:
Francois wrote:
Is there a remote chance for WTC to prevent Challenge from taken over and for the race to go on next year under the challenge label?


That would depend on what lawyer you ask and I am happy to discuss this further however based on the legal advice I am aware of, from my perspective the Challenge Penticton Race will occur and I suspect it will be a best ever.

There is a lot of excitement locally to put on a race that focuses more on the athletes and the overall race experience. It is also important that we not forget about this year’s race, and given that it is the 30th anniversary race I am hopeful that is also a great one for all involved.

==

I would suggest that if you are going to post here on ST and talk as if you are somehow in the "inner circle" of what is going on then you should no longer post anonymously..Full disclosure is the right way to go at the moment.

==


.


funny nick...you are the number one person on ST that like to make people think you are ''in the know'' but '' you cant say anything''.

People are free to post anonymously here. nothing wrong with this, we are just discussing.... nothing will come out of this. and the inner circle is pretty dam big in penticton....


For the record I am only a volunteer who is interested in seeing the race succeed and wanted to try and answer questions that people had about the race. I am not affiliated with WTC or Challenge and I have no financial relations with the race in any way. Like most of the volunteers who give our time for this race in different ways, we do so for the amazing experience that this event has created.
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Re: IMC rumor [Jackb] [ In reply to ]
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Jackb wrote:
So why did WTC take the race from Fraser in the first place this spring?

Is it not WTC fault for not reading the contract Fraser had with Penticton about transferring the race to a third party?



WTC indicated that they “purchased” the license back from Graham Fraser (Graham may have a different version of events on that point) and were aware that the terms included a provision that the City of Penticton could refuse the transfer.

The problem is that for whatever reason (I could speculate of course) WTC did not formerly approach Penticton with a proposal going forward until late last week. In fact WTC officials only flew into Penticton to meet with the City and the evaluation task force on Monday of this week for the first time ever.

From my perspective once Mr. Messick seemed to comprehend the potential consequences of having waited so long to formerly approach Penticton in person, he flew in on Wednesday and presented a substantially revised offer.

The Mayor and Council, in part based on a recommendation from the Task Force committee, made the decision to go with what they felt was a better direction for the race, for the competitors, and for Penticton taxpayers. I can’t get into the terms of either agreement but ultimately I would submit and I am certain City council all agree (many have said so) why on earth WTC waited so long to attempt to secure the future of this race is beyond any of us and only Mr. Messick can answer the reason for the delay on the part of WTC.

That is the ultimately how this played out, although there are of course the usual legal threats going on behind the scenes at the moment and clearly a few people on here have a solid grasp at what direction that is coming from.
Last edited by: Pentictonite: Aug 24, 12 7:32
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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Hmm I got an email this morning from Subaru Canada directing me to a survey where I can choose whether I prefer Challenge or IMC operated by Fraser for Penticton 2013. The email said it is urgent I reply by noon. So does that mean it isn't settled yet?
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Re: IMC rumor [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed, I remember the years that Steve K did NOT announce at the finish line and it just wasn't the same. Steve's presence adds a sense of professionalism and class and SUBSTANCE that Mike Riley (as nice a guy as he is) and his generic catch-phrase lacks.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: IMC rumor [sammie] [ In reply to ]
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Now! this is getting ugly.
Hoping that Challenge prevails!
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Re: IMC rumor [sammie] [ In reply to ]
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I think all participants did. I let them have it. To be honest I think it is settled. They are clutching at straws.

Why they didn't communicate with Penticton earlier is beyond me. They said nothing when the race was handed back to them. Nothing when asked by Penticton to come by for a meeting and only flew in last minute when they realised the crap was hitting the fan.

WTC either thought they were invincible or their organisation is so screwed up they can't even sort out a meeting with their host town. Local news reports are another good example .... interviews on camera with Challenge and a 'Didn't return our calls' from WTC.

Do I want WTC to fail? No. I hope they learn some valuable lessons and make a concerted effort to improve their races for athletes all over the world. Maybe this new guy they have will help move that forward. Until then, good on Challenge for taking one of the worlds greatest triathlons out of the hands of triathlons 'Big Boys'. Let's see what they do with it.


sammie wrote:
Hmm I got an email this morning from Subaru Canada directing me to a survey where I can choose whether I prefer Challenge or IMC operated by Fraser for Penticton 2013. The email said it is urgent I reply by noon. So does that mean it isn't settled yet?

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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rhys wrote:
$700+tax vs. $675 including tax is a difference of $116 if like me you live in Ontario.

But I hear you. $675 all in is still a lot of money.

Agreed, not much of a value. Most triathletes have blown more than $100 on useless gear already anyway.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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Re: IMC rumor [Pentictonite] [ In reply to ]
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This reply is to the thread and not Pentictonite in particular.

I am really torn in two directions on this.

From the business point of view, I believe (no inside knowledge, just have followed this story on ST over the years) Graham Fraser has done a great job of building up and running the north american continental IM's over the years and has been squeezed out by a hardball playing WTC. YOu have to suspect that the reason WTC delayed informing Penticton about this latest change was WTC's desire to not leave Penticton much time before this year's race to consider alternatives like Challenge to run the race. (that timing would have been important because of the number of people in town this week looking to sign up for next year.) Again, WTC hardball. From that point of view, I am happy to see Penticton giving WTC a taste of its own medicine by not just accepting WTC and instead going with Challenge.

From a personal racing point of view, I do not like the change. I may not like WTC's tactics but I love their races, I love IMC (Challenge Canada or whatever means nothing to me) and I love the prospect of getting lucky at the rolldowns and getting a spot to Kona. Much as I love going to penticton and racing there, much as i love that race course, much as I love the atmosphere at penticton during race week, I will likely not return for a Challenge race but will instead look at one of the other IMs that WTC operates.

I wish the town of Penticton well, and good for them that they have pushed back hard at WTC. But man! I hope they work it out so the Town is happy and the race stays IMC.

Grant

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Re: IMC rumor [rbuike] [ In reply to ]
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like barefoot shoes?


seriously though, Challenge is bringing prices down (isn't that what we want?) while WTC is taking costs up. You can argue $100 is not much, but it is more than 10% and it is still $100.

re: previous post regarding the Ironman Canada survey received in email today. I received that as well and wish I was able to copy my comments added. Suffice to say, I outlined:

- all roads lead to Kona is true, except when the course, the town, the race history dictates they don't need that road, then all roads lead within. Penticton does not NEED WTC unlike, say Lake Placid.
- having a 12 year history with this race and this town, I have watched in recent years a serious decline in the race quality and WTC commitment to Penticton.
- While I like some of the steps Messink is taking as CEO, the past 12 months show that a private equity firms drive for margin is hurting our sport. 70.3 launched, then cancelled; races taken over then closed within 2 years; in my own back yard the Muskoka 5150 fiasco vs. Toronto Tri Festival; Challenge Cairns; IMNYC; and then there is the LA "thing".
- Challenge business model affords more profit funds to flow to Penticton vs. to WTC. When WTC do a race all they bring a community is tourist money for a fee. Challenge brings a fee yes, but also leaves funds behind. Their model is better for communities. Effectively Penticton owns the race now.
- in conclusion, as a long time WTC customer I don't feel appreciated or that I get value for what I pay. This is a deadly business model. If I won't refer friends to your business, you are in trouble.

The Challenge Family and Penticton have a HUGE opportunity before them. Much larger an opportunity than with WTC as the partner. I wish them luck and I will come back.

All this said, I am racing on Sunday and it will be, I suspect, pretty emotional experience as my 5th race here. This is it. 30th and final IM race in Penticton. Looking forward to Steve King calling me in!

@rhyspencer
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Re: IMC rumor [rhys] [ In reply to ]
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How is spending $100 on Five Fingers which have solved the foot problems I had a waste? I was thinking more along the lines of transition mats and Freak of Nature wetsuits ;)

WTC is a mess, no doubt about it. I hope them losing one of their classic races is an eye opener to them and forces a good hard long look at themselves and fix things. Messink could be a good thing for WTC but he could also be too late to the party.


Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca
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